Low GPA Asian Male with Ivy+ or bust mentality. PLZ chance me (junior) [DE resident, 3.82 GPA, 1400 SAT, neuroscience or molecular biology]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

  • US citizen
  • State/Location of residency: Delaware
  • Type of high school: Charter
  • Gender/Race/Ethnicity: Indian (Asian)
  • Other special factors: None

Intended Major(s)
Neuroscience/Molecular Biology

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.82
  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.33
  • Class Rank: Does not Rank
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1400

Coursework
3 (going to 4) years of Foreign Language, 9 AP Courses (Coursework: APHG, APUSH, APCSP, AP Lang, AP Seminar, AP Bio, AP PreCalc, AP Research, APCSA (Probably 5-6 APs senior year))

AP Test results: APHG- 5, APUSH- 3, APCSP- 3, AP Lang- 4, AP Seminar- 5

Awards
BPA nationals (2nd, 7th, 8th)

University of Delaware Publications (Nature Neuroscience tho only submitted and in review (2nd name)) (also solo paper (idk where going to be published))

UPenn Publication (Probably impact factor of 5-8(3rd name))

Philadelphia and Delaware Regional Junior Science and Humanities Symposium (JSHS) Program (In progress)

Science Fair — > ISEF (In progress) (might not get)

Semifinalist USABO (in progress) (might not get)

Extracurriculars
Neuroscience Research at University of Delaware; Started late June 2023 (ongoing) Poured 400+ hours into this

Genetic Research at UPenn; Start November though have been in contact since May (ongoing)

Research Shadowing at UPenn; Lasted one week and was at Perelman med school

Co Vice-President of BPA

Co Vice-President of TFC

Student Leader of a Teen Cafe

Wolfram Alpha Student Ambassador

Team Leader of Diamond Challenge

Team lead of Lockheed Martin CYBERQUEST

Team lead of Lockheed Martin Code quest

Essays/LORs/Other
LOR: University of Delaware Prof (she loves me), College counselors (he’s going to try to clear up grades for me), UPenn Prof (I don’t know him that well but he likes me), Princeton Prof (Expert Advisor for research project), University of Delaware Prof might know up to 2 Princeton profs that she could get to write letters

Essays: example essay from Coolidge Scholarship:
*You have learned and achieved much up to this point in your life. What are the next intellectual frontiers you hope to explore in your college years and how do you envision you might use the knowledge you gain?

Essay removed by moderator

Cost Constraints / Budget
250k+ annul income (No Aid)

Schools

  • Safety: University of Delaware
  • Match: Parents only pay for top schools
  • Reach: Princeton (SCEA)/ UPenn (ED), UMich (EA (idk maybe match)), UCLA (EA), UC Berkeley (EA), UVA (EA(idk maybe match)), UNC (EA)
    RD Schools: Harvard, Stanford, MIT, CalTech, Duke, Northwestern, Columbia, USC, John Hopkins, CMU, Vanderbiltao, Emory, WashU, Georgia Tech (idk maybe match)
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Will your parents pay for the University of Delaware? You indicated that they will only pay for top schools (fyi UDel is a very good school).-

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UCLA and UCB do not have EA, though their overall deadline is relatively early (historically end of November).

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You will need LORs from your high school teachers, not these professors (except as a supplemental LOR at schools that will accept one).

If you’re happy with UDel that’s good, otherwise you need to add some safeties. Unfortunately none of the other schools you’ve listed are likely. They’re all high reaches / out of reach based on the details you’ve provided.

Also, please delete your essay from your post.

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These are all reaches. None of them are matches…in my opinion.

You are not an instate resident for Virginia or North Carolina which greatly lowers your chances of acceotance.

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Also, if you apply to Princeton SCEA, I am not sure you can apply to Penn ED.

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The first question might be whether the University of Delaware is a safety. I think that it is likely to be a very good choice for you. I usually prefer for students to have two safeties, but if one is solid enough that should be fine. For example I personally only had one safety coming out of high school and that worked out fine. Your guidance counselor should have a very good sense regarding whether it really is a safety for you.

Let’s assume that U.Del in-state is truly a safety. With this you are in at a very good school. It is okay if everything else is a reach, and even if nothing else comes through. You can only attend one university at a time.

3.82 is a very good unweighted GPA. At many of your reach schools you will be competing for admissions with some applicants who never had a B in their life. 1400 SAT is very good, but is lower than average for quite a few of your reaches. Many of your reaches are among the very most difficult and academically demanding universities in the US, and probably in the world (MIT and CalTech particularly come to mind).

Most of your reach schools might be full pay if you get accepted. Can you afford to pay $85,000 per year without taking on any debt? This seems like a lot on a $250,000 annual pretax income. Do you have siblings and if so will they be in university at the same time?

Neuroscience and molecular biology strike me as areas where graduate school is likely. Could your parents afford to pay for a master’s degree after paying for four years of a bachelor’s degree at $85,000 per year? How much debt would this leave you with?

You can do a bachelor’s degree at U.Del and then be competitive for graduate programs at top ranked schools such as the ones on your reach list.

And letters of reference need to come from people who know you well.

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Most colleges are looking for LOR from faculty who has had you in academic classes and can speak to your abilities as a strong student. This list sounds like a lot of people you feel have connections. That’s not what your LOR should be. They need to be people who have had you as a student.

You need two academic teachers you have had to write your LOR.

Also, look carefully at the number of LOR schools allow. Some only want two and won’t accept any additional ones. Others will allow a supplemental LOR, but not a bunch of them. So do check that.

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Very low likelihood of getting into any of your reaches. It doesnt mean your application is bad, they are reaches for everyone.

I hate parents who will only pay for T20 schools.

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I think it’s hard to tell what’s a reach any more. SATs are low for, say, Wash U, where median is 1530. But I looked and only 27 percent of admitted kids submitted SATs. (33 did ACT but I bet lots of kids did both so I’m guessing less than half submitted any scores.) I can’t imagine kids who got 1580 didn’t submit. So I’d be really interested to see what median is for the actually admitted freshman class. No way it’s 1530.

I bet it’s around… 1440.

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To the OP, all ofyour reaches are high almost out of realm reaches, and your matches are reaches. Study hard and retake the tests if you want but to be blunt, you need more true matches and safeties, and should expand your outlook well beyond the ivy-plusses. There lots of other schools that are slightly less selective that would be a great fit for you! Please consider on the balance there are schools that might be a better fit than the uber-competitive ivy-types.

@Sammacd Regarding WashU, Pre-TO the 25th %ile was 1480 and 75Th 1560, with ACT 33-35 for the middle50%. WashU has a huge percentage of very high scoring kids and is on par with Top10s as far as that goes, from pre-TO days, and has a very similar peer group as ivy-types. It can be a match school for the very top stats/ top-of -the class kids from certain high-performance HS with a track record there, but it is not anywhere near a match for this student.

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I agree, and I hope the parents reconsider their (IMO very unreasonable) stance of not wanting to pay for anything other than a “top” school.

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Academics first. Then test - where they take them.

You are impressive and LOTS of schools will want you and at FANTASTIC prices. Your academics are strong and extras very solid.

Unfortunately, with no hooks, your rigor, gpa, and test all fall short in my opinion.

What is the goal. Neuro seems a newer and flavor of the day major.

What’s your goal - med school, a job, something else ?

Also check curriculums. At Stanford, it’s part of Psych. Va Tech has its own neuro college. Princeton houses in an institute. Others may be in sciences. Curriculums / focuses within the major may be different.

I’d find the right school for you. Throwing out names is dumb and I’m not sure what a neuro grad does. I assume more school which costs more and often where you go undergrad isn’t overly relevant to where you attend for grad school.

Great student. Many schools will throw merit money at you they’d want you so much. . But I don’t see these even offering a spot.

I could be wrong of course.

Good luck.

Edit to add - not all schools want LORs - you list the UCs and Princeton says this - so your Prof will be of no help - but also note, an LOR in and of itself isn’t likely moving the needle if stats aren’t close.

  1. Counselor Recommendation. Please note that the SR and the Counselor Recommendation are separate items. Be sure to “invite” your school counselor or academic adviser to complete both items.

  2. Two (2) Teacher Recommendations. Please ask two of your teachers who have taught you in higher level courses (e.g., AP, IB Higher/Standard Level, A-Levels, etc.) in different academic areas of study to complete and send the teacher recommendation forms, available on the Coalition Application or Common Application website. The subjects should be in core academic areas, such as English, language, humanities, social sciences, natural sciences or math.

Also - there’s a HUGE difference from a Berkeley, as an example, vs. the rest of your list. A Berkeley is a huge college with lots of bureacracy…similar to a Delaware but even bigger, etc.

Move past the name - and find schools that fit you.

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One more issue that I forgot to mention in my previous response.

You have a lot of reaches. Many if not all of these will require essays as part of your application. Your chances might be better for any particular reach school if you have a carefully thought out answer to: “why is this school a good fit for you?”. Even if this question is not explicitly mentioned in any application, the issue will come through one way or another. Also, you are way more likely to find a school that actually is a good fit for you if you know the answer to this question.

Also, you are likely to do a better job on the essays if you can narrow down the list of schools to apply to (and therefore do not need to write so many essays).

Highly ranked universities are not all the same. They generally have different cultures and different strengths. They are in a range of different locations and environments.

I think that it would be worth the effort for you to figure out which of these reach schools would be a better fit for you.

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Congrats on your impressive accomplishments! You have received lots of great advice here, and I agree your reaches are all high reaches. Having said that, I would also suggest you look at Naviance data for your school to see the stats of kids who are accepted to these reaches. At our school you stats would be low for all the reaches but are on par with the kids who get accepted ED (specifically ED) to Northwestern. At my neighbor’s school your stats are on par with kids from there who get accepted to Vanderbilt (but, for example, no one from my kids’ school has been accepted to Vanderbilt in years). I don’t understand it, but I’d be looking to see if you can get any insight from your school’s data to try to maximize your chances at a reach, if that’s the goal. Good luck!

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I think you’re asking the wrong question.

Your question should be - of the 40% (maybe a tad more as some might have sent in both) - but of the 40% that didn’t submit a test, how was their acceptance rate vs. those who did.

Most don’t publish but those that do - it’s lower.

What we do know - at least from 2022 - is that 25% of the enrolled population was 1500 or lower. We don’t know who was lower.

Athletes? First gen? And we don’t know what lower is - 1480 or 1440 or 1200? We do know that 1% submitted under 1400.

But most would tell you that if you submitted the test, you’d have hurt your candidacy.

But I’d say your candidacy may be hurt academically.

One thing I just noticed though - you are a Junior - so your test is a 1400 - SO FAR.

Who is to say it’s not going to go up? You have many more chances to take it - or the ACT again. My son - it’s a bit much - but took the ACT 6 times and while it didn’t impact admission, the last try did get him more merit money (he went to a school that tells you by GPA and test what you earn).

Good luck.

But as a Junior - you still have time to strengthen your stats.

But there are soooooooooooooooo many great colleges and I’d again ask your outcome - because if it’s grad school, you’re not necessarily hurt by going to a school not on your list.

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Your current list looks like a 90%+ Delaware. The purpose of chance me threads is really to optimize both your college strategy, and your college list.

  1. many candidates apply to 20+ schools, which dilutes their ability to write strong essays. Utilise your time constructively by building a more balanced list. Apply to Toronto / McGill if you’re after brand name and reputation, ease of predicting admission (same strategy as Delaware)

  2. Take an SAT tutoring course, they typically increase scores by 120-150 points, to get you into the 1520-1550 zone you need for reach schools. JHU for instance doesn’t even consider athletes without a 1500 SAT. D24 applied TO at all but one school with 1480

Have a fun journey

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It’s great that you’re starting to look into what colleges you might be attending…this should give you a solid amount of time to hone in one what you really want from your college experience (and to find a college that will help you achieve that).

It’s evident that you’re a strong student, but as others have mentioned, the odds for admission to these schools are very low for all, and your chances might be lower still. I realize you said that your school doesn’t rank, but I would ask the guidance counselor for what information the school sends to colleges for the high school profile. Usually there will be an indication that students with GPAs in this range are in the top 10%, 20%, whatever, or that X% of students have a GPA in a certain range, etc. Many high schools across the U.S. have had a great deal of grade inflation, particularly since Covid, but that is not true of all high schools. So, a 3.82 unweighted GPA at a school that has no grade inflation could be like a 4.0 at schools where that is more of the case. Without any sense of your rank, it’s hard to assess what the case might be in your situation.

Another thing you can do is ask the guidance counselor or other teachers, where students like you from previous years have ended up attending college. If you hear a bunch of names on your list…great! If not, you have a better sense of your odds.

If the list of colleges you shared in your first post ends up being the list of schools you apply to, I agree that there’s probably a 95+% chance that you will be at U. of Delaware. Of your reach schools, UPenn ED would probably have your best odds if the UPenn faculty really go to bat for you, and then Emory, particularly if you indicate you’re open to the Oxford campus for the first two years. Emory does have ED2, I believe, so if you don’t get an acceptance from UPenn ED, then an Emory ED2 might have better odds.

Do you mean that your parents will only pay for “top” schools in terms of paying $85-90+k a year, as most of your reach schools are? Or are they willing to pay for other schools if the price is lower? Say, they would pay for a better fit school if it could $50k, or $40k, or was equal to or less than the UDel price in-state (approximately $32-33k)?

You may also notice that I put “top” in quotation marks. There are many ways to define “top.” What does it mean in your household?

Lastly, I consider a safety a school that meets three criteria:

  1. A school that it is extremely likely to accept you
  2. A school that is extremely likely to be affordable for your family
  3. A school that you would be happy to enroll in and attend for 4 years

I think 1 & 2 are true, but how would you feel if U. of Delaware is your only option? Would you happily enroll, or would you be trying to figure out a way to transfer or graduate as soon as possible so you could get out of there?

If you would be happy at UDel for 4 years, then I think it’s a great safety. My other question, though, is about what impact you think it would have on you if you apply to 22 schools and you get 21 rejections/waitlists and only 1 acceptance? Are you like a lot of people where that could be really psychologically damaging? Or are you the type of person for whom rejection is a fuel that’s going to make you want to prove the naysayers wrong?

Depending on what type of person you are, I would strongly consider how you construct your list. Personally, I think as a general recommendation, it’s probably best to have at least as many likely acceptances as likely rejections/waitlists, and preferably more. But depending on an applicant’s psychology, the bulk of applications can tilt in one direction or another. It’s definitely something I think all families should be mindful of when crafting their college application lists.

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Parents said that they will pay for UD and everything that comes with it. They just do not want to spend money on a school that is more about the university experience than the education.

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Ok well I am happy they will pay for UDel.

It seems that they believe safety or match schools are not about education- that is not true but is not the topic of this post.

They need to understand that your list is filled with reach schools and it is a good idea to add some more targets so that you have choices.

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