LSE and Imperial College

Applying to College
22

Agree that some more understanding of what requirements are at a UK university, as well as understanding the degree structure. You mentioned economics. Obviously this is really competitive at LSE. In terms of the AP discussion, note what the course page says for US applicants - and that a 5 in BC is non-negotiable.

Undergraduate entry requirements for applicants from the USA

Equivalency of the Advanced Placement (AP) tests with GCE A levels

Below we have listed our various A level grade requirements and their equivalency in the Advanced Placement (AP) tests. Please note that the US High School Diploma by itself (without AP courses) isnā€™t sufficient for entry to LSE.

A level grade Equivalent in the Advanced Placement (AP) tests
A*AA, AAA Five APs at grade 5, taken over a maximum of three years and a minimum High School Diploma GPA 3.7.
Subjects may be specified as part of an offer. See the note below about subject combinations.
AAB Three APs at grade 5, and two APs at grade 4, taken over a maximum of three years, and a minimum High School Diploma GPA of 3.7
Subjects may be specified as part of an offer. See the note below about subject combinations.
Mathematics A*/A Calculus BC grade 5

Subject combinations

AP Seminar, AP Capstone and AP Research donā€™t count towards our AP subject requirement.

Only one of AP Calculus AB or Calculus BC may count towards an offer.

LSE has a general preference for a broad mix of AP subjects.

23

Top Canadian universities are also on
my list as he is a dual citizen and they are cheaper with high acceptance rates.

I just feel Imperial and LSE are more prestigious

24

The higher prestige is reflected in admit numbers. For economics it seems to be around 10%. Something like anthropology or social policy is much easier to get into. Again, itā€™s not like the US where you apply to a school (like arts and science or engineering) within the university - you apply for a particular BSc or BA. LSE acceptance rates, statistics and applications

2 Likes
25

To follow on Twoin18ā€™s response, take a look at the programme for BSc Economics at LSE, which is quite a typical example of how UK unis structure their degrees. Youā€™ll see that there is very little scope to do anything outside of your major, and certainly not to the extent that youā€™d consider it a minor - maybe a couple of units at best. Of course, there are also options at UK unis for courses in economics and (something) that may suit him better, but you /he do need to a deep dive,uni by uni and course by course to figure out what he would apply to. (Edit- the link doesnā€™t seem to go directly there, click on ā€œProgramme contentā€ along the top).

2 Likes
26

Theyā€™re not more prestigious than UBC or McGill, but anyway prestige isnā€™t the issue here.

How likely is he to have a 5 on calculus BC at the end of Junior year? What math courses or tutor can you find to help him with TMUA?
Without a 5 on Calc BC his application wonā€™t even be considered. And without a 5 on calc BC, thereā€™s little hope of doing well enough on the TMUA in January (required test for LSE, Imperial, Warwick, Durham).
Btw, I would switch out Imperial. Thereā€™s only one course for Economics AFAIK and itā€™s a heavily quant subject with Data Science.
I would have LSE, Warwick, Durham, U Edinburgh, St Andrews on the list instead. Or either Warwick or Durham, add Kingā€™s.

Another issue to consider:
How well can he cook? Can you&your spouse spend time teaching him every week? Then teaching him how to establish a grocery list and buying food in a familiar supermarket?
Keep in mind he would have to do it in a foreign country, with a foreign currency, foreign products, some brands he may not recognize, so he should know how to do it well to minimize the errors, strain, and time suck.
American colleges have a meal plan because organizing their time is already hard enough for freshmen, itā€™s too much for them to also have to manage the complication of knowing what youā€™re going to eat, making the list, buying it, bringing it back, and cooking every day.

Although AP Research doesnā€™t count, it may be a good way to see whether heā€™s suited for the UK teaching system (very few contact hours, work mostly on your own).

Where does he hope to work?
Most US colleges have excellent Career centers. Your stateā€™s flagship and the colleges I listed above with excellent hockey (Colby, Bowdoin, ConnColl, etc.) will certainly have solid career centers and a strong alumni network to help him find summer internships.
The universities listed above will help with internships in London but not in the US. So theyā€™ll help with finding a job in the UK but it means 3 years in the UK, then 2-3 years working there, before being able to use strength of resume to return to the US.

4 Likes
27

And to add to the fine posts highlighting the differences between US higher ed and UKā€¦

Expect ZERO support. No dieticians on staff to help kids manage complex food allergies. No learning center to help kids structure essays or provide remedial tutoring. No RA (especially if your kid is living in an apartment, not university housing) to mediate when there are roommate disputes. And minimal health services-- the expectation is that students use the local ER in emergency situations and visit a clinic in the area for everything else.

So if your kid has come to expect a high degree of scaffolding in his life- UK is not for him. Parents in the US are irate if their kid has to wait three weeks to see an allergist or therapist at their collegeā€™s health center- how about three months to see a specialist provider in London? Yes- plenty of places to have the equivalent of a nurse practitioner prescribe an antibiotic for strep throat. But need an actual, board certified physician in something else? Prepare to wait.

There are zero colleges of interest in the US? I find that hard to believe. And donā€™t underestimate the math prowess of the students at LSE and Imperialā€¦ your kid could be in the equivalent of Macro 1 and discover the course involves sophisticated econometric analysis early onā€¦

3 Likes
28

Iā€™m going to point out that some unis do provide a lot of this, notably Oxbridge, but OP has already ruled those out.

Yup -thereā€™s a reason you need a 5 in BC to even be considered.

1 Like
29

Yes. I work with a young British guy at a PE fund who is super sharp. He didnā€™t get into Cambridge so his final choice for university was between Columbia and Imperial.

2 Likes
30

@hockey_dad
You have to be cristal clear about the environment (complete independence) and the academics expected (specialized, very math-y) compared to what heā€™d find at US colleges, where only students planning on a PhD in Economics would have to take this level of quantitative classes (although they always could if they liked it).
For some students itā€™d be heaven! For othersā€¦ Not so much :pensive_face:
All admitted British students were in A Level Maths/Further Maths and took TMUA before they got into LSE, Durham etc.
It means they likely took the A part of AP Calc in 10th grade, completed the BC part in 11th along with some topics not covered in BC, and went through roughly 2nd year math major math in 12th. (They only take 3 subjects in 11&12th grade, instead of 6-8 in the US, so they concentrate on those.)
Hereā€™s the curriculum to give you an idea:

2 Likes
31

Iā€™m interested that your posts repeatedly mention ā€œI need, I have toā€¦ā€ Are you the parent or the son? Does he have a say in this process?

Iā€™m not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but be aware that all his AP scores will need to be ready before he applies. Meaning he will have to complete his AP tests in May of his junior year because results come out in the summer. AFAIK, there are no predicted scores for APs as there are for the IB diploma.

Can your child handle all the self study for submitting 5ā€™s on self studied APs? Because if he isnā€™t, strongly consider if forcing him to self study APs simply for the sake of possible acceptance to two UK unis is worth possibly sacrificing things that might be more impactful for US Uni admissions.

2 Likes
32

Actually, he wonā€™t. Itā€™s certainly better, but not obligatory. Any offer would be contingent on receiving the required scores on tests taken as a senior. And UK unis, unlike US unis, donā€™t play around; if you fail to meet the requirements in the offer letter, the offer is withdrawn. No discussion. No extenuating circumstances. Nothing

4 Likes
33

Of course, you are right. Thanks for correcting me!

34

Imperial has a new degree program - economics, finance & data science that could be an option.

1 Like
35

Itā€™s a very helpful discussion. And I appreciate the feedback. I actually checked with Imperial ā€” Macro and Micro would count as seperate subjects as would Comp Sci A and Comp Sci P. Also AP Stats would count as an AP, but Precalculus and Calc AB wonā€™t.

He studied online for AP Micro and claims it was easy. So i am optimistic we have one out of the way. The plan is to study AP Macro over the summer and master the material. And do AP Stats and AP Comp Sci P as a Junior. So finish four end of Junior year.

Finish up senior year with AP Comp Sci A, AP Calculus BC and AP German.

So I see him completing

AP Micro
AP Macro
AP Comp Sci P
AP Comp Sci A
AP Stats
AP Calc BC
AP German

My biggest worry is Calc BC and a 5 is required. He is currently on track to do Calc AB senior year. Rest of it is doable.

TMAU requirement makes it very difficult unless he does a gap year. He is in decent in Math but no means a wizard. PSAT he was 90% percentile in the state without practice. But there are kids further ahead of him.

Unfortunately reading is only average 60 percentile. So should I have him spend time boosting his verbal score, practicing TMAU or focus on AP classes?

Unweighted GPA I am hoping will be a 3.9 with very good extra curriculars.

36

Due to TMAU are US students heavily disadvantaged? How does LSE have such a large contingent of American citizens?

He will be able to do AP Calc BC by senior year but with extra help on the side. The math nerds will also finish Calc BC in senior year without the extra help.

My son is not cream of the crop. Just a well balanced student and athlete with nice extracurriculars. There are smarter kids than him in his high school. Although he does attend the best public school in the state

37

He sounds fantastic. Curious why you are so focused on going overseas when there are so many fabulous colleges in the US which would love to have him on campus. Especially the Calc BC hurdle which seems like a LOT of pressure on a kid who doesnā€™t love math. And of course- all that summer studying- arenā€™t there other things heā€™d love to be doing?

1 Like
38

Have it in writing that these AP count separately :+1:

The students who aim for LSE may be American citizens living in Europe or the UK (I know itā€™s a popular choice for Americans who live in Paris) - or Americans, stateside, taking BC junior year of HS thus able to prepare for TMAU over the summer.
Also, grad students?

Still not sure why LSE for undergrad though - why send him live a very independent life on his own in a new country when there are lots of terrific universities in the US that may be a better fit?
If LSE is his dream school, it offers excellent 1-year Masters that may be a great investment after undergrad.

3 Likes
39

The gist of the issue is getting into a top notch school in the US will be near impossible. He will be competing against kids from his high school and there are plenty on kids with better grades and doing more advanced coursework.

Plus at least some of the top tier schools require SAT and odds of improving a verbal score for him even with practice in my opinion are low. He is at the 60 percentile mark. Just a bit above average but not close to the top.

Odds of getting into a top notch school abroad especially being a Canadian citizen are much higher (at least in Canada). Plus school costs a lot less abroad.

It will be $80k a year for a tier 2 university vs $30k for a tier 1 university abroad. I think the latter is a better deal.

40

In Canada? LSE tuition is Ā£28100 a year, which is $37500, and they estimate living costs at Ā£17300 a year, which is $23000, so youā€™re looking at around $60k excluding airfare. Of course itā€™s a year less than the US, but not as cheap as you imply.
Imperial charges around Ā£40k a year tuition only for internationals. Would be same kind of living costs as LSE.

And I think if youā€™re banking on the minimum GPA getting him into one of the most popular courses there, itā€™s not going to be that easy. You need to have proper targets on your college list.

2 Likes
41

ā€œIn 2023, LSE welcomed 951 students from USA, 282 at undergraduate level and 669 at graduate level.ā€
I donā€™t see first year class size stats* but total undergrad population is a little over 6000, and postgrad around 7000.

*Edit, I found them but only by course and Iā€™m not going to add them all up, haha