Thank you @PrimeMeridian! That is exactly what I am trying to explain to @MOMANDBOYSTWO. Such a situation is not acceptable.
@yikesyikesyikes You and I will have to agree to disagree. So, what do YOU do to help these type of destitute kids find a way, if none of my ideas work? It’s a good thing that other people are willing to “risk their lives” for our country when people like you are obviously not. I guess I am just not understanding how these kids from rough neighborhoods are not getting enough fin aid? They don’t sound like middle or upper class kids? After this conversation, I am more certain than ever that those kids need help. BUT, I would not be at all interested in supporting “free” college for YOUR kids or others who are are so selfish as to be unwilling to serve in our military if needed. Maybe families like yours who want free college should move to Sweden. Since people on here seem to think everything is better in other countries. Then maybe we could afford to take better care of the kids from the rough neighborhoods here in the USA…
I never implied that serving in the military is not something to be appreciated - or that I would be unwilling to do so myself. I did not say everything is better in other countries. You are putting words in my mouth. If we are going to have an argument, please do not stoop to the level of creating a strawman argument.
I did, however, say that serving in the military and putting physical and mental wellbeing at risk should not be the only way for students who receive no support from parents to afford college. Not every high school student is a superstar, and sure as hell, not every high school student is necessarily fit to serve in the military.
I do not feel the need to prove my commitment to my country and the various communities I am a part of on a college discussion board.
What is my solution? Like I said before, free community college and trade/vocational school.
It’s an honorable choice to serve in the military, and I respect everyone who does it. But it shouldn’t be what people do just because they can’t afford to go to college. That’s what he’s saying.
A lot of reasons:
- Their parents may not be willing to cooperate with the requirements of federal student aid.
- Their parents and the students themselves may have issues with the kind of financial literacy required to avoid making dangerous choices with regards to financing.
- Federal grant money is capped significantly below attendance costs for even cheaper universities. Which means loans, which means debt.
- If the school is far away, you have to pay a lot of money to live near it.
- If parents are of the sort that kick their kids out as soon as it is legally allowed, you won’t have a place to live except at school.
- If parents are uncooperative in general it’s a whole lot more work.
- A lot of loan money is limited by credit score.
and so on…
Point is, there are a whole lot of reasons why people can’t afford college. You are assuming best case scenarios for the students and that’s really not how things work in general.
Thank you - that is exactly what I am trying to get at.
Think of it this way: are you willing to pay for rich people (or non-military people, or any other group of interest) to be able to use your local roadway system? The same sort of “paying for other people to have stuff” is going on here.
@yikesyikesyikes @NeoDymium So, I am calming down. Although I still think that a lot of the kids you are describing might get great career experience in the military - and get far away from their deadbeat parents. I have lived in some of the most desirable places in the USA (Hawaii, Virginia, Washington State, California, South Carolina, Connecticut New York, North Carolina, Georgia) and had great experiences in the Navy. Husband and father both enjoyed 30 years.
If being kicked out of the house is an issue, then you must be thinking that some of these kids may need free state universities, and not just free community college or trade school, as those do not have dorms. How many kids do we think really NEED this free college? Let’s find ways to better support the kids who NEED. But “free” for EVERYONE is just not necessary. Sounds like we just need a simple tweak of the existing fin aid system to help kids in need get more aid on their own without parental involvement.
But I know that there is probably no such thing as a simple tweak…
Why the philosophical doggedness to make middle and higher income parents pay tuition for higher education? We don’t make them pay tuition for public K-12.
Serving in the military is not a feasible option for most people, even if they are willing to serve. The reality is that the majority of people do not even qualify to be admitted into the military.
@NeoDymium I understand that my taxes pay for roads, military, police, national parks, libraries, schools, medicare, medicaid, social security, food stamps, all government agencies, etc etc etc But, read the Constitution. College is not a universal right. I just don’t see the need to pay more taxes for kids to go to college who can afford to go without my help. No arguments on this thread so far have convinced me that we need to pay for free college for ALL kids. It does appear that we need to tweak the system to give more aid to NEEDY kids…
@PrimeMeridian I am guessing that the USA pays for K-12 because those are children - not adults. Attending K-12is mandated unless a child is homeschooled. Athough some states allow kids to drop out before 12th grade. I am guessing that the purpose of mandatory K-12 is to help kids become adults with at least enough skills to function capably and independently. But there is no mandate for anyone to go to college as an adult. Once someone becomes 18, they have to make their own choices about what to do with their lives. I don’t know the history of how public K-12 schools came to be.
Will you want to start paying for everyone’s grad schools next? Because now everyone is espousing that grad school is necessary to get ahead…I don’t agree with that either.
Wow. I thought that the standards for getting into the military were fairly easy…I guess I don’t know people who were turned away…except for maybe physical disqual…like eyesight for pilots.
National parks, libraries, medicare, medicaid, social security, food stamps aren’t a universal rights guaranteed by the US Constitution, either.
From 1980 to 1986, my tuition at UT-Austin was $4 a credit hour. Not a typo. My parents sold a lot in order to pay all of my college expenses. >>
Yep, except it raised for $12 for fall 1985; I remember because that was DH’s last semester and it was three times higher than the spring had been, when I had graduated. My dad said it was cheaper to send us to college than to pay for our Catholic high school.
@cap, Oh, you’re right. I got my BS in May, 1984. I had a full fellowship for grad school from the fall of 1984 through the fall of 1986. Tuition was free and I was paid to do research.
@65. You do know you can do a simply google search to verify that the US Fed has had the discount rate at or near zero since late 2008 when the credit crisis started, right?
A simple google search.
You might want to do that.
I never said there was a lack of monetary policy and I didn’t mention the reserve requirements because they are not the same thing as interest rate policy which is what we were discussing which is not the same thing as debts or deficits.
Back on topic, it is a bummer that some schools are unaffordable. They always have been for a middle class kid with middle class parents like me. I could have sent my kids to any school on earth if it was only finances involved in the decision but I decided that they should start out at the local community college. It is the same CC I went to right after high school, I was a poor student, this CC changed my life, and it is the same CC I work at now.
My oldest son just got his BS in Econ a month ago and he is accepted and ready for grad school in the fall. He attends a public U. No apologies. He could not be happier or a better fit. So, it worked for me and it has worked for him so far. My last and youngest son will start at that same CC in about two months. He just had his orientation and he is excited about his schedule.
He was out of town with his mom in Los Angeles for 6 weeks and managed to get a job before he left. So he is working, driving and getting ready to be a freshman.
As far as paying for high ed, the current system we have isn’t perfect but it is highly skewed towards helping lower income folks have access to education. You wouldn’t know it from reading this thread. In fact, you might break down into tears after reading this thread thinking only rich kids go to school. This thread and reality are two different things. There are ways for most families to get this done if they put in a little effort. It might involve debt. That is fine if that is your only option and it isn’t because of bad government policy. Even with debt, in most cases, the big ticket schools are out of reach. We can decry that if we want but there are still plenty of good and great options for almost everyone if you are willing to check them out.
While it is probably true, you probably can’t work and save like I did to pay for most of your education and borrow the rest, I am not so sure that isn’t true either. I know for a fact, in my state, you could do exactly what I did as a young person which is live at home, after high school, work, save, and go to a CC. You then take all that money you saved and pay for the next two years at a U. When you run out of cash you fill out a FAFSA and pay for the rest.
That is a workable sensible plan even if you and your family saved zero in the first 18-19 years of your life. So, yeah, reading this thread makes it sound like a good percentage of people want Big Daddy Government to help them out. It seems to me they should help themselves out. If you can’t figure out how to pay for college, well, I leave that unspoken.
I was not referring to interest rates exclusively when discussing monetary policy. Reserve ratios also have a huge effect on how credit is issued, and is therefore also relevant. And, actually, you did EXACTLY say “Monetary policy has been at or near zero for a long time” (post number 56).
lots of people say “college is unaffordable” when what they really mean is “the particular college i want to attend is unaffordable.” these are not the same thing. many students are either unaware of their most affordable college options, or they don’t want to pursue them and are willing to take on debt to go where they want.
people bite off more than they can chew all the time. they get a new car they can’t afford instead of driving their current car for a few more years, and they buy a bigger house then what they need or can afford. they do the same thing with college. maybe before we start throwing billions of $$$ into free college, we could start by making classes on personal finances and financial responsibility part of the required curriculum for high school.
Sure, many people are unaware or unwilling to go for affordable options. However, that does not address the problem of parents who are do not support their children’s college education. When a student can only secure somwhere around $5,500 in loans without a cosigner, where can they go?
This is why I am advocating for free community college and trade/vocational school.
Also, IMO, in-state publics ought to be affordable to all residents.
More reality. This thread desperately needs it.
So because some parents can’t help some young people pay for higher ed you think public policy should be changed so that all students get “free” CC and/or trade/Vocational school and you plan to pay for it by taxing the already over burdened 50% that does actually pay taxes?
Like I said upthread, this isn’t for the “common” good it is an unpaid for give away to a few folks who could handle the so called problem themselves but don’t.
Here is the additional aforementioned reality. Even if one could pay for big ticket schools one still probably couldn’t get in. Lots of folks would live to go to Stanford and Duke et. al. but schools like that only accept a small fraction of the folks that apply so even if we bilk the taxpayers into paying for all this you’d still have to go to a more affordable school.
@MaineLonghorn @cap Post #91 and #92 - Tuition is STILL free for many at state colleges for low-income or moderately high achieving kids. I think UTs are the same? Many private high schools still cost more than in-state colleges. I have intimate knowledge of that from friends around the USA whose kids have gone to private high schools and then in-state colleges. And not all were poor or high stats kids, so they did not all get special financial treatment from those in-states.
@GoNoles85 Post #93 Post #97 @Wien2NC Post #95 Thank you for being voices of sanity. Your comments echoed my previous ones. Colleges really are reaching out to poor kids, so why the push for “free” college for ALL?. Maybe existing fin aid requirements need to be tweaked for the kids where they have no parental involvement. But, most people who want it badly enough are still finding lots of ways to attend college, without a new government entitlement. Not only do colleges really try hard to help the poor kids, but they usually give fin aid breaks to middle class families too if they have more than one kid in college. If someone is unwilling to sacrifice even a little by working or taking out loans or joining the military or applying for outside scholarships like my family members all have, then, frankly, why should I sacrifice my income to pay for “free” college for those people? Even the poorest kids need a little skin in the game…Will everyone be wanting free cars from the government next, because cars have gotten expensive these days?