<p>I think there is a factual basis. Americans aren’t lining up to pick cherries, even though the jobs pay more than minimum wage, and eastern Washington isn’t exactly home to a burgeoning job market.</p>
<p>I think some business owners take advantage of illigal immigrants, obviously, and pay them LESS than minimum wage, which is another problem altogether.</p>
<p>Almost any home or apt stick-built was framed, drywalled, and landscaped by illegals and immigrants.</p>
<p>"There is no factual basis to the contention that those are jobs Americans won’t do. And when the Prevailing Wage regulations come into play from the immigration fiasco, those jobs are going to become mighty expensive.</p>
<p>My husband happens to be my garbage man."</p>
<p>Can I invite you and your husband out to Mattawa, Washington in two weeks? There’s plenty of work, at a good wage, I guarantee that it will be at least 50% higher than the minimum wage… You can live by the riverbank if you like, or 46 to a trailer if you prefer, or just out of the back of a truck. If you’re lucky, I can help you find a farm that has government supplied tents. </p>
<p>If you don’t like Mattawa, we can do it in Yakima, Pasco, Cashmere, Wenatchee, or several dozen other locations.</p>
<p>I am only suggesting that you do not need to be literate to herd cows or paint houses or do nails, or pick cherries. But these jobs DO add to the --“our”–nation’s well-being and prosperity. </p>
<p>I’m only suggesting that one can be literate and do those jobs, also. I’m also saying that those jobs wouldn’t be undone if there were less illiterate people to do them. I’m also saying that the quality of life of the doers of those jobs and their children would be better if they were literate. What I was originally saying was that immigrants with no history of literacy pose different challenges than literate immigrants. I can’t imagine that that would be a controversial statement. I am also not advocating mass deportation. I do, however, stand by the very specific statement that I don’t, personally, believe the influx of illiterate immigrants is beneficial. In light of the fact that literate immigrants or native born Americans can and do perform those jobs, I still hold that opinion. Please be aware that I did not say that the influx of illegal immigrants is a net-negative, either. Neutral is my general point of view. But I do appreciate your courteous responses.</p>
<p>“Almost any home or apt stick-built was framed, drywalled, and landscaped by illegals and immigrants.”</p>
<p>Not here in NYC. Construction is very, very Italian American. Relatives own a couple of construction companies.</p>
<p>So your statement may be anecdotally correct, it’s not necessarily true across the board.</p>
<p>“In light of the fact that literate immigrants or native born Americans can and do perform those jobs, I still hold that opinion.”</p>
<p>My offer still stands.</p>
<p>I googled information about welfare recipients and found some interesting data from 2000.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Welfare mothers are distributed among the major ethnic groups</p>
<pre><code> 37% White
36% African-American
20% Hispanic
6% Other
[quote]
</code></pre>
<p>In other words, even if we aggregate the “Other” with Hispanics, they make up only 26% of the welfare recipients.</p>
<p>
</code></pre>
<p>So a majority of welfare recipients qualify as “literate” (42%) or even “highly educated” (16%)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/depts/ic2/et/learner/general.html[/url]”>http://www.utexas.edu/depts/ic2/et/learner/general.html</a></p>
<p>Zoos, I think the point is that literate immigrants and native Americans <em>don’t</em> want these jobs. See mini’s post above.</p>
<p>Every other yard around me is cared for by a lawn service, staffed 100%, without fail, by Mexicans who speak not a word of English. If Americans were lining up for those jobs, I suspect they could get them. Fact is, the biz owners pay the illegals less, and sometimes pass the savings onto the purchaser of the service. Same reason people seem to have no trouble with the Chinese owning billions of dollars of American debt: we can get cheap Chinese made trinkets at Wal-Mart.</p>
<p>The bottom line is, people want cheap services, and cheap goods. Illegals provide these, as well as fill jobs Americans don’t want.</p>
<p>I would not consider most clothing and furniture items as “trinkets” from China.</p>
<p>Can I invite you and your husband out to Mattawa, Washington in two weeks? There’s plenty of work, at a good wage, I guarantee that it will be at least 50% higher than the minimum wage… You can live by the riverbank if you like, or 46 to a trailer if you prefer, or just out of the back of a truck. If you’re lucky, I can help you find a farm that has government supplied tents. </p>
<p>If you don’t like Mattawa, we can do it in Yakima, Pasco, Cashmere, Wenatchee, or several dozen other locations</p>
<p>Thank you so much! But I do have to decline. My husband makes over $100,000, has spectacular benefits (medical, dental, vision, prescriptions), will retire after 20 years with a tax-free pension and full, lifetime benefits. Since I also earn a six figure salary, we’re doing ok, although the private school tuitions can be a little much. But it’s our choice, right?</p>
<p>Just so you all know, I speak to the literacy issue from a personal piont of view. My husband was an award winning athlete on the national level with a learning disability. He was pushed through school and college (because he kept winning games!) without ever really learning to read or even having his disability diagnosed. Illiteracy is a plague for the person, but also for the children. It took enormous work for my husband to become educated, but no one can ever give him back his self confidence. As a result of my husband’s plight (and yes, I do think it was that), I have worked very hard as a literacy volunteer for the last 20 years, working with children and adults. You know what? Many of my students now are Mexican or Guatemalan. I spend my free time working with them and helping them to succeed. As individuals, they are precious and valuable. But over these 20 years, the immigrants to my particular area HAVE changed. Years ago, they were literate in Mexico and looking for a leg up. That’s not the case as much anymore and it DOES present challenges, the children don’t succeed as they used to, and many of them don’t even speak Spanish! This is a huge drain on services, has really hurt the schools impacted, and many of these people (in my particular area) AREN’T doing the jobs American’s won’t do. They’re standing on street corners all day, rarely getting picked up, and they’re committing crimes like crazy. One of the big concerns in my literacy group is gang activity. It has simply exploded. Many of the immigrants in my particular area are no longer the hardworking family men. They are young men who were trouble at home and have brought it with them. I may not be a polyglot, but I do work very hard to know and help the people who now live in my community, and I can tell you that it’s not all sweetness and light and the stereotypes aren’t always true.</p>
<p>I don’t think they are doing very many stick homes in NYC. I’m talking about large sf subdivisions and garden apts. In most of the country and everywhere south of the I-80 these are mostly built by Mexicans and other Latinos.</p>
<p>Nah, me neither Barrons…but there is plenty of Wal-Mart junk that is made in China. I bought a watch for my daughter there the other day…Six bucks. Whoever heard of a $6 watch? When I was growing up, the very cheapest Timex was still about $20.</p>
<p>Same thing on clothing…I pay less for clothing now than I did 25 years ago. I’m not necessarily complaining (not at all), but I realize there is a price we pay for these cheap prices.</p>
<p>“Every other yard around me is cared for by a lawn service, staffed 100%, without fail, by Mexicans who speak not a word of English. If Americans were lining up for those jobs, I suspect they could get them. Fact is, the biz owners pay the illegals less, and sometimes pass the savings onto the purchaser of the service. Same reason people seem to have no trouble with the Chinese owning billions of dollars of American debt: we can get cheap Chinese made trinkets at Wal-Mart.”</p>
<p>Allmusic, just because every yard around you is cared for by Mexicans, doesn’t make it a universal truth. But I have no doubt that it’s true in your area. May I respectfully ask if your area has a large population of young, African American men?</p>
<p>You’re right about business owners taking advantage. It is utterly disgraceful. What will happen to the immigrants when Prevailing Wage laws come into play as in the Senate bill? This is a serious question and I can’t imagine a good outcome for someone who can’t even read or write.</p>
<p>Timex’s are still $20 and probably made in China too. my wife uses them for her work where she needs a sweep hand for medical stuff but does not want to wear a good watch due to all the yuck stuff that can get on the watch.</p>
<p>Why do you keep talking about immigration, when this forum is about LANGUAGE? As noted Title III REQUIRES that the schools instruct in English, and that the improvements made in English language acquisition be measured. In some states, instruction in any other language than English is banned. Want more English speakers? Fund the schools.</p>
<p>By 2050, white Americans will be the minority. Get used to it. This will be true whether we all speak English or not. </p>
<p>There are NO illegal immigrant welfare recipients. NONE. Nada. States are prohibited from giving welfare benefits to illegal immigrants. (Their children, however, are often U.S. citizens, and may receive food stamps, etc.)</p>
<p>You wanna stop the flow of illegal immigrants? Start by abolishing NAFTA. (But that would be another forum.)</p>
<p>There is a landscaping show on TV filmed in Atlanta which has a huge AA population. The work crews seem to be almost all latino.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You are so right. But which stereotype are we talking about again? The shiftless illegal immigrant who lives off our hard-earned money or the hard-working illiterate immigrant who grows or processes the food we consume, paint our houses, make the beds we sleep in when we travel, etc…? </p>
<p>My experience is limited to the latter.</p>
<p>" don’t think they are doing very many stick homes in NYC. I’m talking about large sf subdivisions and garden apts. In most of the country and everywhere south of the I-80 these are mostly built by Mexicans and other Latinos."</p>
<p>Thank you for explaining that. I appreciate the courtesy.</p>
<p>“The shiftless illegal immigrant who lives off our hard-earned money…”</p>
<p>And how, precisely, does that happen? They can’t get welfare. They can’t get Social Security. They can’t collect workers comp (with very rare exceptions). They can’t get on SSI. They can’t collect foodstamps. So let me hear…how?</p>
<p>“You are so right. But which stereotype are we talking about again? The shiftless illegal immigrant who lives off our hard-earned money”</p>
<p>I never said or implied any such thing. I’m sorry that you have decided to impute opinions to me. As I said, I have been told not to post on this topic, so I will make this my last post on this thread.</p>