<p>“There is a big difference between “sometimes” and “never.” I don’t expect every day - but I strenuously object to “never.” And it’s ridiculous to expect that and think that any human should tolerate it.”</p>
<p>That is a valid complaint! “Never” is only acceptable to someone approaching saintliness – or a shamless masochist! One must know what one’s tolerance level is, but even more, one might finally realize – before the wedding – that this a not a match after all and move on to another relationship with, one hopes, a lesson learned.</p>
<p>If you haven’t had loving relationships where men treat you with respect and like a “sentient human”, you have really not had the kind of relationship that I think many of us are waxing on about here. And just because you haven’t yet had one, doesn’t mean that you won’t in your lifetime.</p>
<p>Not everyone has to marry…clearly not. But it is an institution that has stood the test of time…for a reason! Married people are generally happier, because the human species is one of connection, not separation.</p>
<p>“…if I don’t watch out for my own well-being and happiness, who will?”</p>
<p>I don’t mean to sound the mystic but – it will come to you by not seeking it. </p>
<p>“I seriously doubt that those ‘others’ are indifferent to you.” </p>
<p>Actually, they can be and are. That is the real test, because it makes one momentarily feel resentment and allows selfishness to rear its ugly head.
But if there is love there, nonetheless, it will help restore a perspective in you and even cause you to consider that “perhaps I wasn’t as perfect to her/him as I thought I was”. If you are real and sincere with your partner – and she/he has genuine affection/love for you they will show it – but, again, it becomes a matter of how much you decide you will tolerate, if the ‘showing’ is too seldom. Of course, if it is NEVER – then move on to someone else who will be a better match. Know yourself well, for to do so is a big step in finding the right person.</p>
<p>So…how <em>DID</em> you find out about my male harem anyway? Have you been goin’ through my portfolio of love poetry from all of my past beaus??</p>
<p>Love it. Just LOVE IT. And yes, flattery will get you everywhere! P.S. Miss Scarlett and I <em>DO</em> share coloring… </p>
Actually, no! In terms of life span, married men live longer; married women die sooner than never-married women. Vegetarians tend to live about seven years longer than meat-eaters. Ergo, as a non-married vegetarian woman, my life expectancy is really good. (That is your happy thought of the day.)</p>
<p>Second not-overly-happy thought of the day: psychologically, married people are happier. Somewhat. Those in happy marriages are the happiest people out there. Those in bad marriages and those who are divorced are less happy than their single counterparts; in fact, having a bad marriage is pretty much the worst thing you can do for yourself. </p>
<p>Third thought: everyone has her breaking point. There is a point at which you are simply dead inside and realize that nothing is worth the logical consequences of your actions. Y’all are happily married; I am certain that your relationships are the antithesis of mine. I’m also sure that the prospect of being in a relationship is not worth the damage that horrible ones do to one’s psyche. I miss the person I used to be.</p>
<p>Fourth thought, bringing in the other marriage thread: we do not live in a vacuum. Even “nice guys” of the early 21st century have been brainwashed. I can try to convince someone that I’m worth dating even when I don’t put out like a skanky girl at a frat party, but I can’t convince his friends to not make him feel like a tool for dating me anyway. Sad thing is, it’s not just me who has had a guy dump her on account of his friends thinking that I should put out; it’s happened to my girl friends, too. Likewise, marriage certainly isn’t in a vacuum, and there’s no way that I’m going to spend a lifetime fighting other people’s opinion of me. That Romeo & Juliet thing just doesn’t work long-term. Marriage and dating brings with it certain social expectations; one really shouldn’t engage in either unless ready to do battle, constantly, or live accordingly. </p>
<p>Last thought: my parents are divorced. (I don’t remember them being married.) I’m a professional woman. I do not want children and think that compromising on having children is kind of like compromising on dropping the a-bomb: one party is always upset and you can’t do it halfway. My chances of a healthy marriage are so small as to be negligible. </p>
<p>I really do thank you all for caring about me… Hugs!!! I just wish that you would direct your prayers, not towards what has made you happy, but towards something workable in my life.</p>
<hr>
<p>Anyway, back to the point of this thread… who is male and female? :)</p>
<p>Another unintended consequence of divorce - the children of divorced parents may not have a model to follow and subsequently have a higher chance of divorce too.</p>
<p>Divorce is probably a far greater issue, more in need of attention, than probably any other social concern. :(</p>
<p>Aries-
You don’t need to defend your position. You are entitled to make choices that are best for you, and we don’t know what they are, or why you have such strong convictions. I posted something to you in a different thread. I waited til I was older and established in my profession to get married (I was 31). It was the right choice for me. I am happy. But had I never married I’d have found my happiness too. I just feel kinda bad that you have had such a series of crummy relationships. Please take this kindly, and with the support with which it is intended, but have you considered talking to a professional about why you find yourself in unhealthy relationships (unhealthy for you), or why you find that you give more than you receive? Especially coming from a family of divorce, it is hard to know what a “healthy” relationship is, or what your role should be in it. I can’t imagine feeling drained and dead in a relationship (well, drained, maybe, dead, no). I am saddened to hear that. That said, I had my share of crummy relationships in my day, and I knew they weren’t right in the long run, but I didnt close the door to finding someone who could add to the quality of my life, not detract from it. And I did! Its great. Perfect? No. Great, yes. Whatever you decide is fine- just consider keeping an open mind.</p>
<p>Thank you, guys. In addition to hearing about your kids and watching them all grow up, this is really one of the things that I love about CC. </p>
<p>Jym - I really don’t believe in therapy. (Hold on a sec before y’all have a stroke.) It’s just that therapy won’t change the quality of people who are attracted to me, won’t change the fact that a LOT of men demand sex, and doesn’t change the normal, human reaction to being treated badly (nor should it). I also really dislike the idea of “holding out” emotionally in a relationship - I just cannot play games. </p>
<p>
Very true, p2n. Even if parents remarry, successfully, the kids have seen a bad marriage in their younger years (well, I haven’t, as my parents divorced when I was two); in later years, they aren’t seeing a marriage that has survived through several decades. I just don’t think that you’re ever going to get people to realize that, before they get married, they should ask themselves whether they mean the “until death” part, and you sure aren’t going to get people to wait to have kids until their marriage is healthy. Some 1/3 of kids born in the US now are born out of wedlock… wonder what happens to them.</p>
Aries-
It is not about who is attracted to you, but the kind of guys you are attracted to. “Demand” sex??? You are hanging out with the wrong kind of people. Gosh, even one of those contestants on the latest “Bachelor” game thing on TV is announcing to all the world that she is saving herself for marriage, and she’s still in the running with this prince guy (I really don’t watch this dribble-- but I do channel surf when I’m not playing on CC). </p>
<p>And lastly, I’ll politely overlook your disapproval of therapy. (Hint: the last three initials after my name are Ph.D.). There is an old psychology joke- “How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but the lightbulb has to really want to change”. I’ll refrain from saying anything derogatory about attorneys (several of my best friends… well, you know). But so far you don’t believe in marriage (for yourself) or therapy (for just yourself or for others too?). Sure wish you would be a bit more open-minded.</p>
<p>Like jym, I do not think you owe an explanation of ANY kind to any well-intentioned people who may feel that they know more about the path to YOUR true happiness than you do. </p>
<p>That said, I do disagree with your above assertions, and this is coming from someone who felt exactly the same way about therapy as you do now. My mother, a hugely dysfunctional woman who wreaked utter havoc on her family/children and who held mental health professionals in the HIGHEST of disdain “poisoned” my view of therapy, though oddly enough, it was she who guaranteed my eventual NEED for it <em>sigh</em>. </p>
<p>I finally sought it out when I became fearful that my “baggage” would adversely affect <em>my</em> family/children. All the while doubting its potential for success, I stuck with it, and I am happy to say that I have been pleasantly surprised. I have continued with my therapist in a personal coaching capacity even though the primary birth family issues responsible for my seeking her help have pretty much been worked through.</p>
<p>I think you are wrong when you say that some of the things listed above woud not be helped by a good, competent therapist, one who shares your values and outlooks. As <em>YOU</em> change, the type of people who would be attracted to you would also change and so would your expertise in pinpointing those who were appropriate and good for you. Therapy may not change that fact that many young, dating men desire sexual relationships, but it may change enough about you that you are more able to successfully seek out those whose values match yours more closely. And though it may not change your gut-level reaction to being treated badly, it may change the ways in which you handle it when you ARE treated badly…ways that will leave you with far less emotional baggage in the long run that then adversely impact your future relationships.</p>
<p>I’m <em>NOT</em> advocating that you do something that you are uncomfortable doing (ie, seeking therapy), but I think it is important that you don’t write off therapy for the WRONG reasons. It is not a panacea, but it certainly can play a role in dealing with adversity and past negative experiences in a more positive and healthy way. </p>
Have you been goin’ through my portfolio of love poetry from all of my past beaus??</p>
(That is your happy thought of the day.)</p>
~berurah</p>
I would suggest much more work be done there. </p>