I wonder if this is a part of the “spiral” being observed.
Children with distant, absent, disinterested, or transitory fathers learn different things based on gender:
Boys learn by observation to interact with females in this same way. But, it’s getting harder to find females who want to fit this mold.
Girls see Mom doing it all (for example) and choose whether that’s a path they want to be on, or to be truly on their own - as that’s how their moms are, even with Dad somewhat around.
I saw a very interesting take on the subject from 25-35 year old woman.
She and many of her peers would be fine with a partner that makes less than them, but what they don’t want is to have a partner that ends up being a child they have to take care of. Meaning they are doing the lionshare of the cleaning, cooking and household chores while their partner spends a ton of time online gaming or going golfing etc.
I know I have seen plenty of women in their 40s get divorced and even though kids are in the picture their lives become easier without a husband to take care of like another child.
That’s what I have seen with a lot of the “stay at home dads” I have known. The female partners support the family financially and still do most of the unpaid household support work.
This isn’t at all what I see with the few stay at home dads I know.
My relative is a 2nd year resident in family practice. Her H is a PR guy for the fed govt. They have a toddler and 2 labradors. He does the lion’s share of housework, dog care, childcare and cooking. They are a happy family. The grandparents help watch the toddler so the dogs can get walked.
If the resident had to do more around the house they wouldn’t be contemplating a 2nd child. Sh works long and crazy hours 6 days/week and he has a job with regular hours, 5 days/week.
That reminded me of this comment I saw recently. Respect for your partner is not just dependent on their financial situation or contributions to keeping the household running. And maybe wanting your partner to do something productive (that you’d be happy to tell your friends and relatives about) might be more important to women than men? Say you had enough money to hire a housekeeper and full time nanny, so you didn’t have to do much to keep the household running. What would the reaction be to a male vs female stay at home spouse in that situation?
Yeah, this guy probably no longer resembles the guy she married. I think that his change is probably the issue, and the two are probably headed to splitsville because they are going in two different directions. That happens a lot, not just when a guy stays home.
I was interested in what kind of response that would get in a FIRE group, and happy to see that most people agreed that the writer had to deal with this–that having purpose was important and they understood why the guy’s wife was concerned.
I think the response would be the same male or female. Sitting home getting high and playing online games? I don’t care what your royalties are - get a better hobby.
My issue would be less of the online gaming and more of the getting high (and on the daily, at that). Substance abuse is a red flag for me, no matter the financial situation.
I agree that’s I’d be concerned and unhappy if that was my partner, getting high daily and not doing anything to contribute to the family or society while I’m working hard.
And if that hobby is say pickleball (without the drugs) like many of our neighbors, is that fine? It seems vastly more acceptable for women to say that’s what they spend their time doing on a daily basis than for men of the same age (50s and early 60s empty nesters in this case).
I think there are clear double standards in our age group, is there a good reason to think those are absent amongst younger couples (other than because of financial pressures), especially when we see things like “trad wife” influencers?
My retired sister does pickleball, mah jong, traveling and shopping. She’s happy. She taught for over 3 decades and is having a blast. Her H continues to work long hours at a dentist. When his employee is unavailable, sister grudgingly shows up and helps at his office.
I think it’s important for Primary Wage Earners not frame things as the SAHP is now their employee. So while I agree that the majority of the house related tasking should be the work of the person who is there , I don’t think Primary Wage Earners get a free pass because they “worked” all day and the partner “didn’t”. And earning the money doesn’t make a couple less of a team with equal rights to make decisions (well, unless they plan to split up, it doesn’t). I have been the SAHM and worked outside, too.
The guy getting high? Vacation is over buddy. Charities everywhere are going under, not bc of money but bc an entire generation doesn’t value volunteering. Get out there and find a place to help.
Drugs are a non negotiable for me, but then my H knew that when we got married. The gaming? They didn’t say how long he was retired. First 6 months? Sure, go at it. 6 years? Uhh… I wouldn’t be thrilled, but if he really is cooking the dinners and cleaning the house, that would be fine with me.
I’d be curious to see how the cleaning and cooking looks like when the person doing them is high on something… 
I don’t like this dude at all. Lots of red flags in this letter, more than just the drugs and gaming.
Good point.New retirees get several months to transition to a new life. But not years
Maybe this is regional? Or perhaps depends on the career? Because I am friends with a number of late 50s-early 60s couples where the woman is still working while the man has taken early retirement, and there is just no issue. For example I attend a book club where we are all middle aged female physicians, and a number of us have husbands who retired early. And nobody is ashamed to say so. We are happy actually. Especially in cases where we come home from clinic famished and there is food on the table waiting. Bliss!
Incidentally, almost all of us are married to men who had jobs where they made less than we did: a public school teacher, a restaurant manager, a carpenter, a college adjunct, a draftsman. A few of us are/were married to doctors. None of us considered a man’s potential to be a “provider” when we were dating (I suppose because we were confident in our own ability to provide?) but none of us wanted to marry someone with a substance use disorder or who would become another “child” for us to take care of.
Perhaps there are considerable regional differences in societal expectations? I’m thinking of our wealthy Silicon Valley neighborhood, where many of the families we know have made plenty of money with fairly traditional lifestyles (though there are some dual career couples, mostly the men made that money working very long hours in tech companies of one sort or another, while quite a few of the wives were SAHMs or did a lot of volunteering, at least while their kids were young).
But instead of saying they took early retirement, most men are still “advisers” or “consultants”, or (if they have more energy) are “working on their startup”. And the men who have been pushed out of their jobs involuntarily, generally don’t seem to be particularly content (or willing to say they are retired even though they can afford to be).
ETA: One guy does say he retired (a little) early and we see lots of pictures of them traveling. But still can’t sit back completely, so he decided he had to write a book (providing advice on careers in Silicon Valley).
