I look at the phenomenon of young men struggling as a societal problem that affects everyone, but especially women under 35. I watch our Young Adult Ministry (ages 18-35) and Singles Ministries at my Church (at least 90% women in both groups) and wonder where are the Men? My daughter has a friend who went to a Singles meet and greet recently and said the women outnumbered the men 50-1.
It is easy for us in the CC community to be cavalier with the thought that some young men are struggling (because it is less likely to affect us directly), but the possible societal implications (Could this mean more crime, struggles with children, less family formation, etc?) matter. In the community that I grew up in, the struggle of Young Black men led to more crime, more drug use, lots of children being born out of wedlock with less than adequate support from their fathers and less family formation than the previous generation and affected the women and children that loved those men In countless ways.
I think that finding solutions to help anyone who is struggling are hard to come by, but it will become an existential crisis if the trend continues to grow in young men. I have seen 1st hand what happens when a large group of men struggle within a community.
I donāt think anyone is being cavalier about the idea that some young men are struggling. Rather, some donāt accept the reasons given/ excuses made for the struggles, nor the apparent solutions. One can recognize that some young men are struggling without supporting some pseudoscientific, deterministic boys-will-be-boys ideology that artificially puffs men up and puts women (and other men) at risk.
There is also a degree of hypocrisy in the concern for this particular demographic (young males) when it comes from the same people who have been telling us that we ought to pretend that all such demographic considerations are necessarily prejudicial and should not exist. For example, IMO it is hypocritical to argue that something has to be done to save young men while simultaneously arguing that anything other than gender blind college admissions is necessarily prejudicial. The hypocrisy extends further, but Iāll leave it there.
I just reviewed about half the thread. Here are my notes on some of the causes and solutions that have been proposed:
Causes
Overuse of video games & gaming
Negative storytelling about the harms of patriarchy and that males have ālostā something by womenās gains
Reduction of respected, well-paying jobs via automation, weakening of unions, and globalization
Decreased interactions in real life with a corresponding increase in online-only life
Lack of boundaries placed on male children from their parents
Significant encouragement/programming for girls and a corresponding lack of programming for boys
Schools not designed for activity levels of boys
Maturation rates of boys donāt align well school system
Families too permissive with adult male children
Few men employed in education
Males are less likely to ask for help
Depictions of sexes in the media (including social media)
Insufficient opportunities for activity in schools
Too many messages that men arenāt necessary
Addiction to video gaming may be prevalent
Boys/men feel a lack of agency in their lives
Decrease in formal/informal rituals to mark growing responsibilities
Solutions
Restricting extensive use of video games and gaming
Increase structure and boundaries for boys
Provide opportunities for competition
Have more in-person activities for boys
Have strong male role models present
Ensure boys have the ability and willingness to perform household tasks
Have a national service requirement for all people ages 18-20 to get people into society and exposed to possibilities that are not college
Implement teaching methods that more heavily engage kinesthetic learners
Get more males into the teaching profession, particularly in early grades
Provide outlets for risk-taking
Provide more opportunities for quests (i.e. multiple steps toward an admired goal)
Increased focus on building emotional intelligence and relationships with others
Increasing awareness of how words/actions may be interpreted as discouraging
Teach and normalize how to ask for help
Increase opportunities for mentorship
Awareness of media messages and the ability to think critically about them
Increase time spent reading
Increase opportunities for activity within classes, with elective opportunities, and for recess and PE
Have female-dominated fields (like healthcare and education) do more outreach to men (as male-dominated fields like engineering and business have done for women)
Increase social engagement
Look for ways to implement addiction recovery protocols for gaming & social media
Overall, I think the conversation has been more fruitful than some might think.
Thanks for partial summary, but your lists neglect to mention some of the more controversial aspects of the conversation. The genetic determinism argument, for example. And the references to the hardcore christian nationalist/ white supremacist pseudoscience. It is those ideas that have been rejected, not the fact that some men are struggling or that something ought to be done about it.
Many of the men who are struggling online have absolutely no interest in the type of women they might meet at such events, because such women donāt fit into the idealized and artificial stereotypes these men have unfortunately bought into.
Iām not sure I have a solution, although I agree with some (but not all) of what is in the lists above. Since this is a college website, Iāll say I am in favor of attempts to balance the ratio of boys and girls at traditional colleges and universities, and attempts to bring women into traditionally male dominated fields and vice versa.
And overall, I think that it would be a huge mistake to try to return idealized (and often misogynistic) versions of stereotyped gender roles.
Several of these suggested solutions are on the parents. I really think people need to rethink the messages their sons are getting at home
I think everyone would benefit from more males in teaching (especially at lower grade levels) as well as in female dominated healthcare professions
Your list does not suggest anything that will negate female progress and put women back into subservient roles - we can support the young men in a manner that is not misogynistic
Iām not 100% sold on the national service requirement. I would love to see an optional service requirement instead
An alternative perspective on some of the myths of masculinity, particularly the myth that men are genetically programmed to want to be heroes. Not sure I agree with it all, but it does cast the concept of what needs to be done in a different light than much of what has been presented thus far.
āChildrenās literature is an incredibly useful tool for analyzing human culture because fairytales contain, in a very condensed form, the values that we believe are crucial for being part of the human community.ā
OK, so fairy tales convey ācrucialā values that have developed over centuries to tell us something deep about our community norms for behavior. Some might even think that evolution has a bit to do with something so deep and long lastingā¦
They tell us that boys value male groups with status-driven hierarchies (which she derides as āconformityā), that boys value protecting others (which she thinks is āscaryā), that boys value success (disparaged as āconservation of powerā) and that boys value physical activity (oh no, they ought to be talking about their feelings instead).
But the author believes that these traditional values are inherently bad. So she took it upon herself āto rewrite gender norms for girlsā (ie write new fairytales that she approves of). Now she wants to do that for boys as well. Give me a break.
How is that different to the all female panels on how to help boys that @shawbridge wryly noted?
Let me just say when it comes to the article, āWhat do fairytales teach us about masculinityā, I agree with some observations but disagree with some (but not all) of her takes on what those observations imply.
But the point Iād like to emphasize isā¦if you read to the end of the articleā¦her conclusion:
āIf we truly care for the well-being of our boys, we must do for boys what we did (and must continue to do) for girls. We must offer them stories and characters that celebrate wholesomeness. We must tell them that they are worthy of love not because of what they can do, but because of who they are.ā
Iād like to add that supporting some of what is said in the article doesnāt mean I support banning books with gender stereotypes. I donāt. Read them and enjoy them. And then when the child reaches a certain maturity level introduce the concept of themes and their implications.
As a female of a certain age I enjoyed Cinderella with Leslie Ann Warren and the Disney princesses. I also introduced and enjoyed those stories with my DD and DS. However at some point in their childhood, it may have been Mulan, I started talking about what girls were capable of accomplishing. I wanted them to question the āplease pick me/save meā narrative that had dominated their media consumption. Awareness and allowing for differences can help us not only accept others but also ourselves.
But when you change the bolding in that quote, itās just a woman telling boys how they should think and feel, which she believes should be more like girls.
This is a delightful eulogy (by Steven Pinker) for evolutionary psychologist Don Symons, which touches on this issue (particularly the idea that men and women think and feel differently), and is relevant to the video @hebegebe cited earlier:
āthe effects of evolution are manifested in psyche, not behaviour. Contrary to the behaviourism that is widespread among scientists, it is thoughts and feelings, not actions, that implement the metaphorical agenda of our genes. When we choose an action, we must compromise our wishes to accommodate those of other people and the constraints of the world.ā
And I think the takeaway from this is that focusing on āconstraints of the worldā (whether unnecessary ones like lack of space for physical activity in school or needed ones like avoiding addictive video games) is likely to be more helpful in modulating behavior than trying to dictate how boys should think and feel.
I have 3 sons. I donāt actually think thereās that much difference in what they, and I, think and feel. Now, how we interact with the world, and how the world interacts with us is different.
That makes a lot of sense to me. Perhaps a boy is genetically apt to want to assert himself physically when angered. From an evolutionary perspective, this was how a male stayed alive in the face of danger many years ago. If a killer is after a boy, acting upon his thoughts and feelings that are urging him to fight back may be totally justified. But that desire must be tempered if the boy is feeling that way because another kid took his ball, or took his girl (although that is a misogynistic supposition), or bumped into him ā¦ The point is, the feelings may be there due to evolution, but the response must be appropriate for the particular situation. And appropriate is something that has evolved over time, as marginalized or other groups have gained more rights ā¦ or just plain demanded respect that was missing in the past. (Watch Match Gameā76 to see disrespect of women that would not be tolerated today.)
āitās just a woman telling boys how they should think and feel, which she believes should be more like girlsā
Yikes! Seriously???
So you changed the bolding to emphasize the āweā and interpreted it in a negative way. However try to approach it in a different way:
āWeā is a ācollective weā addressing men and women to work together to address male struggles. āWe mustā can convey urgency as opposed to an admonishment to men to ābe more like girlsā. Imagine the audience is comprised of men and women.
Then re-read this as if the author was a male.
āIf we truly care for the well-being of our boys, we must do for boys what we did (and must continue to do) for girls. We must offer them stories and characters that celebrate wholesomeness. We must tell them that they are worthy of love not because of what they can do, but because of who they are.ā
Lastly hereās another podcast that people may like. Itās an interview with behavioral psychologist, Dr. William Von Hippel. I found the part on āautonomy and connectionā interesting. Can humans control their evolutionary inclinations through conscious thought and action?
āIf we truly care for the well-being of our girls, we must do for girls what we did (and must continue to do) for boysā¦"
Then to me that would read as incredibly patronizing to girlsā¦like something from the Victorian eraā¦or from the Man vs Bear threadā¦
Especially if the suggestions were male-centric āvirtuesā, for example:
āWe must offer them stories and characters that celebrate discipline and self-control. We must tell them that they are worthy of love, not just because of who they are, but because of what they can achieve.ā
I went to a womenās college, I donāt have sons, and I guess I would say Iām a traditional second-wave feminist. But I am also a college professor and I do think that the young men who are my students are facing some challenges that their female peers donāt face. I agree with Chris Arnadeās essay on young mensā need to feel heroic (very valuable thinker on āback-row Americaā). I also see a kind of institutional and casual misandry where men are typed as the cause of all problems. Lazy and opportunistic misandry is no better than reflexive misogyny. The whole āgirls rule, future is femaleā girl-bossing stuff is toxic and stupid IMHO and has achieved way too much purchase in popular culture. Itās embarrassing and convinces no one. Milton wrote of the battle of the sexes, āAnd of their vain contest, there was no end.ā There is no winner here.
I also taught grades 6-8 in a former life and I observed that boys like and need hierarchies with merit-based rules. Young men flock to the military, fraternities, gangs. They need this more than young women. As a culture, we need to provide constructive and enriching avenues for male rites of passage. But that would require us to admit that young men and young women sometimes need different things. We have convinced ourselves that all sex differences are arbitrary and culturally imposed.