<p>Some medical literature from Medline… Just the tip of the iceberg here…</p>
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<p>@OP-</p>
<p>My family was exactly in the same situation as yours. My brother made the same rationalization about pot being harmless, medicinal etc. My parents tried everything to “stop” him from smoking pot, including random drug test with my father watching. Though it wasn’t the pot that got him in trouble, suspension from hockey for 2-4 weeks and a slap on the face by the judge with 200 hours of community service weren’t enough to stop him from conitnuing his illegal activities as a 17 year old. Later, my parents did, however, discover that his car was his most valuable possession, not his tv, friends, or PS2. So whenever they could be home, they’d take away his keys and offer to chaffeuer him wherever he wanted to go. Course, he was too embarassed and just called his friends for lifts. In fact, he cared enough that when he got in trouble again shortly before winter break, my parents told him he was grounded from his car and going out until New Years, he did not complain once or try to get around the rules for those 3 whole weeks. Never asked to drive on New Years Eve. It worked and now he works hard not to get caught with pot.</p>
<p>Alcholol, that’s a different story that ust has no point in trying to stop.</p>
<p>BunsenBurner: Though I don’t have time to fully dissect those studies because I have to go do some work, I’ll point out that the first study used as subjects cannabis smokers who smoked on average 5-6 times per week with 2 full joints per session (!!). That is extremely heavy use, and might be expected to result in cognitive deficits.</p>
<p>Reading just the abstracts often does not give a full picture of the study.</p>
<p>The illegality is not a detail. Getting busted for pot can have severe consequences. I know a number of kids who got into trouble with pot, and the ordeal was really a bad one for the whole family. You have to go to court, go for drug counseling, get a criminal attorney. If your college gets wind of it, you could end up deferred for a year or admission rescinded depending on the exact issue. Never mind that the bulk of the kids are using it there. That’s the way it works. You can get kicked out of school, graduation activities. You can get into a whole lot of trouble. I would not trivialize the fact that it is illegal. I’ve known some kids who have done some hard time because of pot. If you get a hardass district attorney and a tough judge, when you get caught, you can be in some real trouble. Also criminal attornies do not come cheap. I can also assure you that drug counseling can take up a lot of time for a long time. </p>
<p>It is also something that can prevent you from getting certain jobs in the future. At 18, you have no idea what opportunities you get. Not cool to eliminate them before they exist. </p>
<p>Pot is not the only the problem. Alcohol under age 21 is also. So is being drunk in public, and of course, drinking and driving. Getting into trouble about any of these things can make your life very difficult and expensive in things that those who do not have that on the record, take for granted. My friend’s daughter was horrified to find out that some underage drinking incident popped up when she was checked out after she passed the bar. These things can follow you for a long time and pop out when you don’t expect it.</p>
<p>While you are living with your parents, it is really a nasty thing to do to involve them in these things. It is their house. You may be 18 years old or older but you are still living in their house. Keep your pot, drunkenness, wantonness and other ugies out of their house. When you make your own home, you can make your own rules about what contraband you want to have there. Just be aware that you can get kicked out of college if you are unlucky enough to have an unfortunate combination of events that have drug or alcohol use. </p>
<p>The other really big danger of pot and alcohol is that there are a number of you who are not going to do well with those substances. You are going to really get bad effects and hurt yourself. You can become addicted, do something truly stupid, rude, ridiculous that you would never do when you are sober. You may not even remember what you did, and even if you deny it truthfully, the fact that you were in that state is not going to do much for your word. Getting yourself soused is not a good idea even if you are of age to do so.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread, but one big issue I’d voice to your son is that a drug-related conviction disqualifies you for most financial aid. </p>
<p>If your son isn’t concerned about getting caught, warning him about this might not make a big impact. But it’s something you should be aware of, and maybe you can warn him that there’s no way in hell you’ll be making up the difference if he loses financial aid for smoking pot. </p>
<p>This is the info one school sends out–since it’s based on federal law, though, all schools probably act pretty much the same way. <a href=“http://www.odos.uiuc.edu/sls/pdfbrochures/DrugsFinancialAid.pdf[/url]”>http://www.odos.uiuc.edu/sls/pdfbrochures/DrugsFinancialAid.pdf</a></p>
<p>Remind him that his future employer might do a hair-follicle test instead of a urine test. Pot residues stay in hair as long as you have the hair. And (at least at my son’s job), they don’t necessarily take the hair from your head.</p>
<p>Excellent point, Stacy. I shake my head at how colleges do not emphasize this. I have seen schools that basically provide a drug haven for their students. Certainly a protective zone for drinking. Some of these kids don’t realize how protected they are when they come back home during the summer or other breaks. They also don’t understand how serious the consequences can be.</p>
<p>We are struggling with same issue with our responsible college-graduate 23 yr old son who is living in our home, recently promoted at work, and beginning a career.
His argument is that one occasional “toke” of marijuana will help him focus, concentrate, and calm him in a way that ADD meds do not. (He took ADD meds for years: ritelin, concerta, adderall).<br>
He wants to get a medical marijuana prescription and only smoke at home because he realizes the risks of being stopped with mj in a car.
He insists he would not abuse mj and “would not be using mj to get high.”
Also, he argues that would we rather he use marijuana or “speed” (the primary ingredient in ADD meds) if either may be used with a legal prescription in California?
So that is what is being discussed at our house.</p>
<p>I would let him (assuming you trust him that he wants it for medical reasons). Marijuana certainly has less proven side effects than amphetamines, which is what ADD medicines generally are.</p>
<p>The risk is that federal law enforcement could still arrest and charge him and you (it’s a ridiculous violation of states’ rights, but hey).</p>
<p>My D will be going off to college next fall and I am certain she will experiment with pot and alcohol, as will many/most of her peers. I am also certain that she will become sexually involved with one or more individuals during her eight years of study. I did the same thing back in the 70’s so it’s not something that I would shocked to learn about her.</p>
<p>She was raised well (by my standards), was accepted by elite schools, is an empathetic person with a strong desire to contribute to society and is prepared to live life to its fullest. She will do fine navigating the waters of college life, sampling that which intrigues her and embracing that which gives her joy.</p>
<p>While she has gone through the drug and alcohol awareness programs mandated by our state, she has also learned that President Clinton smoked pot, that President G.W. Bush was an alcoholic with a DUI conviction and who, at the very least, experimented with cocaine, V.P. Cheney also had a DUI conviction, and Senator Obama admitted to smoking pot. She also knows that people who make and enforce the laws have been driven from office by having sex with pages, hiring a call girl to cross state lines, soliciting sex in a men’s bathroom, etc., etc. All of these examples are a part of human behavior, some of which is on the fringe. Underage drinking or smoking pot is certainly not on the fringe of college life.</p>
<p>I cannot and will not attempt to control her exploration of life. I have guided her well up to this point and now it is time for her to take wing. Sure, she will learn some lessons the hard way, but haven’t we all? Would we have learned those lessons with our parents constantly at our side through our entire college experience? Of course I will be there for her and we have a good, open line of communication. I will not denounce her for having her first hangover from too much beer the night before because I want her to consult me if she is finding linear algebra difficult.</p>
<p>I am presently dating a woman that I had dated back in 1970. She is now a professor at a CC top university. But in 1971 her parents learned that she had lost her virginity during her first semester at college. They made her sign a contract stating that she would not have sex again until she was married and that she would never smoke pot. If she breached the terms of the contract they would not pay for her college education or her living expenses. They did the same with her brother, who was a year older. Her brother said “OK” and left college and went to live in communes. All of a sudden her parents (her father was a college professor) realized that their Draconian contracts had the opposite effect. They didn’t hear from their son for eight years, but they accepted their daughter’s exploration of life as a college student in the early '70s.</p>
<p>Their son suffered from their “tough love” and never finished college, but he is a well regraded writer and business man with four children currently attending college and graduate school. Her parents completely disregarded the contract they made their daughter sign as they didn’t want to lose her to the hippie communes, too. That was the best decision they made as she experimented, marched in protest of the war in Viet Nam, went on to graduate school, earned a PhD and has been active in academia ever since.</p>
<p>I am sure the DUI convictions that Bush and Cheney racked up were distressing to their parents at the time, but they had little affect on the remainder of their lives.</p>
<p>Take solace in knowing that you have raised your child well and that they will use their best judgment, instilled by you, to enjoy their lives.</p>
<p>i admire an employment agency (not the CIA/FBI, i understand those) that will reject your application by means of a hair follicle test that showed the last time you smoked marijuana was months prior.</p>
<p>it really brings fascism to a new level.</p>
<p>When this country bans alcohol and cigarettes then we can talk about this, until then it is total hypocrisy.</p>
<p>As a parent of 4 kids who are teens and older, I am well aware of what is going on out there. The truth of the matter is that a lot if not the majority of kids at college are abusing substances. Many of them who get into that atmosphere get into the mistaken state of mind that it is ok, that everyone does it, it’s not going to hurt them. That is not the situation. For some kids, some families getting caught with illegal substances under the wrong circumstances can be a real disaster. They may not have the funds or access to a good criminal attorney. They may need the financial aid. They may need that job. What everyone needs to know is what the risks, penalities and costs are if you are caught with dope.</p>
<p>There is a big difference between a kid who takes a toke or two at a party occasionally, and one who starts buying, transporting and sharing. When you start being the one holding the goods, the penalties skyrocket in severity. Many kids do not understand that. The young lady I know who got caught and did hard time was not a drug dealer in the conventional sense, nor was the young man who got kicked out of school. They just got so comfortable using the stuff that they sllipped into providing it to others and stashing it, without thinking about the implications of those actions. If you get caught with illegal substances in your car, it will lead to a series of events that are nerve racking, expensive and punitive. Having seen the bright and GOOD kids who have been caught in those situation, and the agonies their families have undergone, I don’t think this is something you want to go unaddressed. There are families and kids who can take this kind of hit easily. And then there are those who cannot.</p>
<p>The same with casual sex. Again, there is this everyone is doing it mentality. I know full well that prohibiting it is something unenforceable when kids are of age and out of the house. I don’t think it is enforceable even if they are underage and in the house, without strict due vigilance that is beyond the way most of us want to live. It is wise to sit and talk to your kids what the implications of these activities can be. Some people cannot take casual sex easily, and there can be profound emotional pain. It is wise to be careful. You don’t know who or what you are dealing with, if this becomes so casual. And if you bring this behavior back home with you when you are out in the “real” world, the risks escalate. An old friend of mine has a grandson under circumstances that are not good. The mother of the child lives in what many of us would define as squalor and disadvantage to the max. Yes, these things can and do happen.</p>
<p>Tw14, I know what you are saying about making the consequences of breaking family rules so severe that they harm the child and the family. Just as too much monitoring can damage the quality of family life and can actually cause or encourage rebellion, certain ultimatums can be damaging if enforced. Better not lay down the rules if you are not going to be able to stick to your guns or it is going to be harmful to do so. The consequences of these actions if bad luck or much carelessness occurs are painful enough. These are real and natural consequences often out of our control, and they should be presented to the kids. </p>
<p>That isn’t going to prevent them from indulging. Peer pressure, the age, the hormones, the environment almost always prevail. However, at least you have given them a true representation of what could happen, what has happened to real live people. Maybe a little bit of what you say will stay in the brain, and have them exercise just a bit more caution, a bit more hesitation. </p>
<p>YEs, Relampag, it is hypocrisy, but young people need to know where the nets are cast to catch those breaking society’s laws, whether they are hypocritical or not. Believe me, it is a pain when you get ensnared.</p>
<p>For every law that has people disagreeing with it; considering it hypocritical; etc… there are those that believe the law is valid. Some may even believe that POT and other drugs are illegal only because the government hasn’t found a way to tax it. But why do some people have such a hard time trying to CHANGE laws? Laws are changed all the time. But instead of trying to make a positive social impact and changing the law; which I think POT is one that should be changed; instead they believe rebellion and saying “I’m not going to follow that law” is the proper response. Having no respect for the law, also says a lot about yourself. It says that you don’t respect our legislative and judicial system, and other people who voted yes and their rights. If you truly don’t have such respect, then you can’t turn around and complain when you feel that your rights are being violated and you are being unjustly judged. It’s the same system that protects your rights as well as makes our laws. It really isn’t that hard to protest and hold your reps accountable.</p>
<p>But, with some of the attitudes on this thread, it seems that it’s OK to condone your kids doing something that is illegal. What kind of lesson is that for them. They are going to be working for companies and such that are going to have a lot of rules and policies that they aren’t going to agree with. You’re telling them that it’s OK to break the rules and policies of their employer also. Instead, you should be teaching them how to get involved and make a positive change. Everyday; especially during times like now with political campaigns going on, you hear all these people complaining. The government this; this law that; they’re all crooks; etc… Yet, the problem isn’t the system, law, candidates, politicians, etc… It’s the citizens; the voters. They don’t get involved. They don’t realize that it’s THEIR responsibility to hold the government, system, laws, etc… accountable. They don’t realize that it’s their fault the system is the way it is. Get involved. Petition your representatives. Get them voted out if you don’t like them. </p>
<p>How did women and minorities get the right to vote? They couldn’t just “Break” the law and vote. How did workers get safety and not forced to work 80 hours a week? They didn’t just stop working after so many hours and tell their boss they had enough; they’d have been fired. You are the most integral part of “The System”. If you aren’t going to use that system because you aren’t involved, then quit complaining.</p>
<p>And, as long as there is a law for or against something, it is in fact a law. A socially accepted policy with equally socially accepted penalties. So, if you think the right answer to any of these debates is to just let your kid do it, then don’t even think of complaining if they get arrested or fired from a job. But, of course we don’t want to hurt our children’s feelings. We don’t want to jeopardize our relationship with them and have them leave us forever. If we had a relationship with them as “Parent/Child” as they were growing up; and now; instead of trying to be their “Best friend”; these subjects probably wouldn’t even be coming up. </p>
<p>Yes, when many of us were younger, and even today, we’ve done our own forms of protesting and growing. It sometimes involved breaking laws. But, we knew the consequences. Our parents didn’t tell us it was OK. We knew the risks. We took our chances. But when we got caught or whatever, we couldn’t complain about it. We knew what we were getting into. And we didn’t leave our family. I’ve known 2 people who did in fact leave their families not to be seen from for many years. In both cases, it was the parent’s fault for not being the parent. They condoned too much and didn’t hold the children accountable as their kids were growing up. 1 such person is my sister in law. She did the whole sex, drugs, leave home, join a commune, etc… Luckily my wife and brother in law were much younger than the oldest sister. Luckily my in-laws learned their lesson and became PARENTS to the other two instead of trying to be their friend. Being their friend, with occasional outbursts of “I’m your parent” just doesn’t cut it. But, being a parent first with outbursts of being “Friends” with them is totally doable. But, this is irrelevant if you’re now trying to hold your kid responsible for things you never held them to in the past.</p>
<p>"i admire an employment agency (not the CIA/FBI, i understand those) that will reject your application by means of a hair follicle test that showed the last time you smoked marijuana was months prior.</p>
<p>it really brings fascism to a new level."</p>
<p>Employers have a right and an obligation to have employees who do not use drugs. I don’t believe the test distinguishes between smoking pot the day before or a month ago. At least that information is not communicated to our company- just that the test was positive. Until the law changes, this is not fascism, it is simply a part of the hiring process.</p>
<p>It’s really a shame that some of the pro-pot posters, who have obviously spent a lot of time researching the topic, couldn’t instead spend their time more usefully, such as participating in research on cures for diseases that afflict millions of people - cancer, etc. Instead, they look to rationalize their pot-smoking. How very sad.</p>
<p>Dan D</p>
<p>Km5, one of the unfortunate consequences of the criminalization of marijuana is that it is extremely difficult for researchers to explore its beneficial pharmacological effects in a controlled setting, so it’s almost impossible to discover whether it’s an effective and safe treatment for ADHD, other than anecdotally. I assume that medical marijuana is safer than street pot, which in our area is often cut with speed or worse, but because it is not a regulated drug it is still difficult to control the dosage and quality.</p>
<p>I have a friend whose son is ADHD and also suffers from an anxiety disorder. Stimulant medications for ADHD are not an option as they aggravate the anxiety. My friend mentioned that there is a new non-stimulant medication on the market that your son might want to look into. Also, there are some behavioral therapies that can supposedly help. Can he find a psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD to talk to about this?</p>
<p>You’re really going to worry about a responsible 18 yr old because they smoke pot recreationally? Wow. There are such, such, such bigger things to worry about.</p>
<p>I guess your family is lucky if you are able to worry about something that small.</p>
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<p>Yes, it actually really is that hard to get laws changed. For a multitude of reasons, the Federal government has shown no responsiveness on this issue, and the grassroots movements that have so far done exactly what you suggest (get medical marijuana laws passed in various states, and in some cases even full marijuana decriminalization) have been met with militaristic DEA raids and specious Supreme Court rulings that the Federal government has the power to override the states based on the interstate commerce (what?!) clause.</p>
<p>So what exactly do you suggest?</p>
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<p>Actually, Rosa Parks got the law changed by breaking it. Are you saying what she did was immoral? I don’t think so - you just don’t agree that drug laws deserve that kind of civil disobedience.</p>
<p>But, in fact, civil disobedience has proven to be sometimes the only way to get drug laws changed. In fact, recently in Canada, a court ruling struck down marijuana statutes as unconstitutional - and this was sparked by someone being arrested for possession. Sounds like civil disobedience getting the law changed to me.</p>
<p>But the bottom line is, I don’t view a law that is immoral as a law that is worth following. I don’t let the law define my morality: I will not do something immoral simply because it is legal, and will not let a law infringe upon my liberty to make my own choices that do not infringe upon others. You may differ on this point. That’s fine.</p>
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<p>When, exactly, did I suggest protecting kids from the consequences of their actions? Why not just take the course of action my parents did and trust me to make my own decisions and deal with the consequences myself, should they arise?</p>
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<p>I don’t want to keep harping on this point as I have to keep bringing it up in almost every thread about pot, but I have no choice: marijuana does not get cut with speed, cocaine or any drugs like that.</p>
<p>Cutting is the act of a drug dealer (or producer) introducing impurities in their product to improve their profit margins. </p>
<p>Obviously following from that definition is the idea that a cutting substance must be worth less than the drug it is being used to cut. And therein lies the first error with the “marijuana cut with speed” idea: speed (amphetamines) is more expensive than marijuana.</p>
<p>The next point is that cutting is an act of deceit on the part of the drug dealer; the users are never supposed to know that their drug has been cut (because then they’re not getting what they paid for). So obviously, the cutting agent needs to be disguised. Therefore, cutting agents must have similar visual characteristics as the drug they are being used to cut. So, for example, baking powder (a white powder) is often used to cut cocaine (a white powder) - speed is often used to cut cocaine as well, as it is often simple to get through legitimate sources (prescription fraud and so forth). And here is our second major problem with the idea of marijuana cut with speed: speed is a powder; marijuana is a plant. When you buy marijuana, you buy the whole buds of the plant, which have a distinct visual appearance. This appearance does not include powder. Thus, it is essentially impossible to conceal speed in marijuana.</p>
<p>Sorry for getting off topic, but simple common sense shows the idea of cutting marijuana with speed or other hard drugs to be economically and practically not very smart. That is not to say it doesn’t happen, though - there are scattered and very occasional reports of marijuana laced with embalming fluid, PCP, and occasionally baby oil. But these reports are extremely rare, which tails with how stupid an idea it is to adulterate marijuana.</p>
<p>I don’t know what the situation is where you live, 1of42, but in our area street pot is frequently adulterated; this is well-known among the teens here. I’m assuming that medical marijuana would be a more reliable commodity than street pot. In any case I am generally against self-medication for neuro-psychological problems, whether it be by prescription drugs, legally-available substances such as alcohol, or marijuana, which in Calif. falls into its own category. It would be a significant challenge, even in Calif., to find a reputable psychiatrist to evaluate a patient’s treatment with med mj and evaluate for side effects as would be the case with a legal ADHD treatment.</p>
<p>Given our family history, my kids generally stay away from mood-altering substances such as alcohol and pot. Nothing like looking at the long line of alcoholics and addicts in one’s family tree to dissuade one from starting to use substances “recreationally.” You are free to examine your own personal situation and make your own choices as long as you understand and accept the potential consequences.</p>