OK, I have been wrestling with this a while and want to ask the CC hivemind for thoughts.
Does it ever make sense to get married if one is eligible for Medicaid as a single person?
Background: sibling is 52, has terminal cancer. Lost his job at the same time he was diagnosed. Unemployment runs out this week. Is engaged and they plan to marry this year (it was planned before he got sick). He has no insurance, lives in a state with no Medicaid expansion. Chemo and radiation was not successful. Has applied for SS disability and SSI. Meets criteria for Compassionate Allowance (basically expedited Social Security approval because of the staging of his disease).
They are bound and determined to get married no matter what, even though fiancee’s assets/income (negligible) would come into play for SSI and Medicaid eligibility. My concern has been that the fiancee, who is very sweet but totally in the dark about these issues, doesn’t know what she is risking. She was previously married (28 years) and her ex only pays $300/mo in alimony. I don’t know if that is continuing to happen, or if it was for a limited period/if he is behind on payments. She got nothing else from the divorce. She doesn’t have medical coverage, either.
I want to take them to an attorney (I would pay), but they are highly resistant. Both have a huge distrust for the system, yet want to get every penny from it they can. (He is outraged that he had to give financial info and his SSN to Medicaid. REALLY!?!?!)
Do I try to parlay my background in benefits/understanding of the law into some useful advice to help them make this terrible time less stressful, or do I sit back and let these adults make their own decisions, even if it leads to legal difficulties and the fiancee getting hosed down the road? I am feeling I need to do something here that can give them comfort, but don’t want to come off as the bossy older sister, etc. He and I used to be very close, but his alcoholism and poor decisions wrecked his family, company and relationships. Even my dad thinks they should just have a commitment ceremony, throw a party, but DO NOT get married.
Oh, @countingdown, I can identify. I had a BIL who thought he was due everything, even though he rarely worked. He ultimately went on Medicaid and welfare and passed away about ten years ago.
I would make sure you have provided the information you think they should have, and then step away. You can’t manage his life nor can you watch out for his fiance. Just make them aware of your concerns and then step back.
It feels frustrating but if this is what they really want to do – even once they know all the facts – you should not be in the way of stopping it.
Tough question. If it were me I’d say my peace once (and only once).
It sounds like you have done that as well as very generously offered to take them for professional advice. That’s really all you can do at this point, and that was very kind of you.
I think I would drop the rope, including if/when it goes bad down the road.
I guess I am wondering if there is a compelling legal/financial reason that they SHOULD get married. Maybe I am missing something. Between my benefits background and DH’s legal one, we both came to the conclusion that they needed to see LOCAL counsel since Medicaid varies by state.
If they don’t take my advice, I get that I should walk away. I’ve come to that conclusion over the past few months. I’m struggling with whether I should even lay out the options, because if i do, I am pretty sure they will then say they don’t need an attorney and will never question if my info is good. Or, alternatively, they will be po’d with me for raining on their parade and then cut off their noses to spite their faces.
I am a bossy oldest sister, too. My siblings all call regularly to ask advice but one sister never follows the advice. For self-protection I’ve decided I will research/explain/advise for the same issue twice and then disengage. Last spring at a family gathering, I learned about an issue that had come to a crisis point for the sister who had asked for my help, told me she was going to take my advice, and then did nothing. To help her I’d paid for professional advice and developed a simple, written, step-by-step plan. Since it’s an issue that has the potential for family repercussions beyond just her, I had consulted with all the sibs and everyone had all agreed on handling it in this way. We had a conference call to discuss it. Another sister insisted on being in charge of seeing the plan was followed, because she was already on some bank accounts that were going to be used. When I asked about it a while later, I was assured everything was fine, all taken care of. At the gathering when they told me about the crisis, they prefaced it with: “we know this is going to really tick you off, but…”" because it wasn’t the first time we have found ourselves in this situation.
I am so very sorry for your brother, his fiance and you. I hope you can help them. I just tell myself I have no more control over my siblings than my children. Take good care of yourself. I’m pretty sure from some of your other posts that you really don’t need the stress.
This makes me a little crazy too, and I’ve had similar stuff happen (though not of this magnitude necessarily). I’ve learned the hard way to just stay out of stuff.
You are totally right about LOCAL counsel, especially when it comes to Medicaid. We helped my MIL get qualified for Medicaid and there are definitely state-specific issues to be aware of.
You did the right thing - that was smart to suggest a professional. Then you’re not stuck in the middle. Now just stay out of the middle.
I might write them a letter in which you lay out your concerns. Then don’t do more, unless one or the other asks questions or requests more guidance.
I’m in a similar situation with my H and in-laws, in that I"m aware of things that will likely affect my in-laws’ Medicaid eligibility, I advised my husband to discuss a particular course of action with his father, my husband did but not with any enthusiasm, and nothing happened. Now I’m protecting myself.
“Even my dad thinks they should just have a commitment ceremony, throw a party, but DO NOT get married.”
That’s what I would do…go to the clergyperson of your choice, but don’t get the license.
You’ve gotten good advice to lay it out and then walk away. The hard part will come if they disregard your advice, lose benefits, and then are in some kind of financial extremis asking for your help. I don’t look forward to that kind of thing.
One reason to marry is so that she can be the point person and decision maker in his treatment as his next of kin. However, that can also be accommodated with a medical power of attorney.
Before marrying a second time, she needs to find out how that will affect her eventual social security benefits. Right now, she can claim benefits based on her first marriage as it lasted more than 10 years. I’m not up on the details of second marriages (and subsequent widowhood) affect that sort of thing.
She was married for 28 years she (only needs 10 to be able to claim benefits from an ex’s record). For survivor benefits, she and my brother must be married for nine months and a day. In that case, she can’t claim survivor benefits til she is age 60 (and they will be significantly reduced that early), and if she remarries before age 60, she loses the widow’s benefits from my brother’s record.
If my brother passes away before they have been married nine months, she would have eligibility restored for her ex’s benefits. She can never claim benefits from both spouses.
The medical POA is an excellent point. Will add that to my list of things to mention.
Actually, I went to an attorney’s estate planning presentation tonight in the hope I can find someone who is local to my brother and fiancee. I get a free consultation, which I can pass on to them. There’s just a limit to how involved I can get here.
If he marries, he gives up health insurance at a time when obviously he is going to need it. I’m sure before he passes, there will be a trip or two for hospitalization or even just an ER visit probably for pain management. So, he will have wracked up these bills and she is left with them when he ultimately dies.
Makes zero sense and oh heck yes I’d say my piece. Financially, it’s really a disaster. It’s astounding that they can’t see it.
As a single person, now that he has run out of unemployment and is unable to work, he should be able to get Medicaid. He won’t qualify for Medicaid as a married person until they spend down her assets (though if they had $500 in cash between the two of them, I’d be surprised). She had a small business which runs a loss, but declares no other income. Have to wonder what Medicaid will say about that. Her only asset is a trailer and land, total value under $50k.
If he can’t get Medicaid, and they are married, the creditors are going to swoop down like the dogs from hell. I don’t know why they don’t see all of this. Even if one doesn’t understand the regs, it’s still clear this is a bad decision.
Hanna has this exactly right. I have started telling family members what to do, and that if they don’t do it, I am not their safety net, that I can only be the safety net for my kids. This is a fib. Husband and I are making plans for how to best operate as safety nets for a few siblings. But I don’t want them to be counting on that as an easy option because they are unable to make very basic preparations to take care of themselves and stave off disaster. To my surprise, this fib actually has had some positive impact. It was an absolutely shocking to one sibling when I said that and maybe, just maybe, a wake-up call.
@alh, it’s not for nothing that “Necessity is the mother of invention” came to be such an established proverb.
Certain personality types will never stretch themselves as long as they know there is someone in the background who will rescue them eventually. It’s only when they no longer believe that to be true do they finally start putting in the effort.
Oh wow. I am a healthcare provider and see people like him all the time. If they marry and she has no benefits but her income counts with his and he therefore loses benefits…he is going to fall into the biggest gap in the system. He sounds like the type of guy who thinks he knows everything, really knows nothing and then gets indignant about the same system he is trying to utilize.
Hang in there. Sounds like a train that is going to derail. If you can drag them to a lawyer then you absolutely should make that last ditch effort.
