<p>I hope not to have this dilemma in the next few years. Maybe a decade. I tell my kids, “Please, no need to rush into marriage.” My H and I prefer to be proactive as opposed to being reactive in our approach to various aspects of our lives. In fact, we love to say, Lack of planning on your part doesnt constitute an emergency on my part. I hope at some point this mantra will rub off on our kids. Hence, the prospect of our kids marrying someone ladened with significant debt is not something I look forward to. Its like watching my kid paddling upstream in a canoe towing his/her spouses stalled motor boat. </p>
<p>That said, if they meet their soul mate and he/she has a staggering amount of debt, I can see my kids ignoring our advice and instead singing with starry eyes,</p>
<p>And even though we ain’t got money,
I’m so in love with you, honey,
And everything will bring a chain of love.
And in the morning, when I rise,
You bring a tear of joy to my eyes
And tell me everything is gonna be alright…</p>
<p>I remember when H first told me he had 30k in student loans (mid 80s - UG and law school). I almost ran for the hills. I had one small loan (2k) and 5k in the bank from working through school. We both had good jobs and they all were paid eventually but it was definitely a hurdle for me since money (lack of) had been a persistent issue in our house while growing up. I can’t even wrap my brain around 200k.</p>
<p>Sylvan, regarding your post #43: I have been married for 25+ years! When I was only engaged to my husband my parents did not have a tremendous amount of knowledge about him other than they trusted my judgment. At the time, since we were both young and starting out, my parents did not know that the student loans would be paid off in a few years or that my husband would go on to own a lucrative business. Things turned out well for us but they could have just as easily turned out badly. I understand how my parent’s (father in particular) may have felt about the situation AT THE TIME given that the future in-laws never had any money for their children yet had money for new sports cars every few years, nice jewelry for both Mom & Dad, gambling, several trips per year (cruises & Vegas), and chain smoking!</p>
<p>Also, I re-read my post - I never said that my parents “resented” anything. Your words - not mine! I actually found the tone of your response to be offensive.</p>
<p>I think a potential spouse coming from a family with casual-to-irresponsible attitudes about money would gain a lot by joining a family with a more structured attitude. People can’t control the family where they started life, and a 17-18-19-year-old is a creature of his/her parents. I would certainly want to know that my kid and potential spouse had discussed the issue in some depth, and that the spouse-to-be understood that a lot of debt could slow them down for a long time. But this person would become part of my family if s/he married my kid, and the couple will create its own path.</p>
<p>My daughter is extremely conservative about money. I talked to her about subsidized loans, and said that upon graduation she could use the modest 529 in her grandpa’s name to pay it all off and not penalize her financial aid. But she is having a hard time thinking about borrowing, and even a mortgage was an alien concept until I explained about the tax benefits and exactly how long it would take to save enough money to buy a house or apartment. Not that I’d like to see her with a spendthrift, but I think a little flexibility would not be the worst thing for her. Of course she’s only 17 but she asks really intelligent questions about personal finance!</p>
<p>“I think a potential spouse coming from a family with casual-to-irresponsible attitudes about money would gain a lot by joining a family with a more structured attitude.”</p>
<p>Maybe that’s why H married me?? To up his credit rating?
I come from a frugal (cheap, stingy) family of planners/savers. H’s family was/is irresponsible with money. And I didn’t realize how irresponsible H was until after the wedding. (Should’ve seen it, but love is blind. . . when we were first dating, he borrowed $ from me for a car repair and never paid me back. Maybe that’s why I kept seeing him–I kept hoping that he’d return my $? And I am the kind who keeps track.)</p>
<p>Yes, I paid off his student loans and put him thru grad school. And H has supported me and the kids since then. Still, H’s attitudes about $ (“I don’t want to look at NUMBERS. . .”, “I can’t be overdrawn, I still have checks left!”) haven’t changed. And after 26+ years, my arms are awfully tired from “reining in this wild horse.”<br>
Don’t get me wrong–H has plenty of other charms, but it is best for a married couple to be able to work together on financial planning. I’m either working alone–because he doesn’t like this type of work–or he is working against me because he spends when I want to save for a planned purchase. He rarely plays the, “It’s MY money” card. But I can’t prevent him from spending on something that HE wants. OTOH, he knows he’d be in debt and have poor credit if I weren’t there to say “Whoa, boy. . .” so he actually likes to have me in charge of the finances most of the time. And I can’t say I’ve gained nothing from seeing a different attitude toward money. He taught me not to worry so much, to occasionally take risks, and that it is OK to enjoy the moment instead of always saving for the future.
I have told my adult children that they need to find out a potential spouse’s financial goals, personal and family attitude toward money, and amount/type of debt (if any). This all should be discussed in detail before the wedding so there will be no surprises. I would advise against marrying someone with a large amount of debt.</p>
<p>A kid’s financial style is not necessarily going to be the same as the parents’. My in-laws are moderately financially irresponsible, but my spouse is hard-working and frugal. I know well-off and financially responsible parents who have wastrels of children.</p>
<p>A spouse isn’t a fixer-upper. If you don’t like what you’re getting, don’t marry them thinking that things will change once you’re married / you have kids / the good influence of your family rubs off on them.</p>
You asked why I found your statement incomprehensible, but you didn’t explain in your original post that your H’s family had other money. Your statement was:
the key element of which seemed to be that he was “someone else’s kid” benefiting from their hard work.</p>
<p>My son’s very long-term GF has no undergrad loans but will be taking on six figures in professional school loans. She is at a top vet school but the cost is comparable to med school and the potential payoff is not at all comparable. (And yes, we all read and discussed the recent NYTimes article re vet school and finances.) </p>
<p>I am concerned about this being a burden on their future (challenging to get started in a practice, buy a house, have a family all at about the same point in life) but she is a very responsible young woman who has been forthright in our presence about the financial concerns (what she is likely to be able to earn when she is finished, etc.). She works VERY hard and being a vet has been her long-term career goal. She also does what she can to keep the costs down. She is very careful with money and is no princess. Her education is her only splurge and she has done whatever she can to keep costs down (was awarded a partial scholarship and works hard to be considered for more).</p>
<p>My son finished undergrad with only modest Stafford loans; he is working as an engineer and living at home to pay them off and build a nest egg and then hopes to help the GF. I expect them to marry eventually but for now they are five hours apart. (He tried to get a job in his field near her vet school but that did not work out and he is lucky to have gotten a good job in our area.)</p>
<p>It would NEVER occur to me to discourage this relationship on the basis of finances. I do try to make sure he is aware of how financial things work, but that is the limit of my involvement. They began dating in high school and she is truly a wonderful young woman and as I told him years ago, I will never lose sleep over his being with her. We know her family and they are very solid and nice people. Being a vet is a very demanding career choice but it is truly her passion. (Believe me, I have listened to hours of her discussing the details of various aspects of this field and I jokingly brag that I could pass a test on the material!)</p>
<p>In general, I think this is a tough question as I do see how heavy education loans could be a strain on a marriage, especially in this economy, but at what point should it be considered? When first dating it seems too soon to address finances, but once there is an emotional connection would or should one back off for this reason? It is not like a gambling habit, which could IMO be a reason to reconsider.</p>
<p>I do think it is important for couples to consider if they are compatible financially in terms of their lifestyle priorities and goals. </p>
<p>My son’s GF is not into luxury lifestyle items and their idea of a date is dinner at home with perhaps a movie afterwards, or a daytime hike outdoors. Neither of them is at all interested in high living. They are both practical and sensible. I can only hope that they will always work together to address the future financial challenges.</p>
<p>I have seen financial planning advice for married couples to do that method, which is basically preallocating each spouse’s individual spending money and the joint money. The idea is that instead of the spouses negotiating each significant expense that one spouse wants to make but the other does not care about (e.g. those “needy” relatives), each spouse merely rations his/her own preallocated individual spending money on that type of spending.</p>
<p>I agree. Marriage will be smoother if they can. In the end, it is more about attitude than the amount of debt itself IMO. We are frugal and I don’t know how long I can stay civil to my in-laws if they are a 1%-er who gripe how poor they are because their spending outpace their earnings.</p>
<p>My parents have separate checking and savings and then a joint “family” account, which is how my fiance and I are set up at the moment. It is working okay for us for this stage, but we aren’t really using the funds like they are separate-- we have absolute full disclosure and we are making all financial decisions together regardless of which account it comes out of. The money in my account isn’t really just “mine.” My mom has a modest income of her own that goes into her account, but she gets “paid” once a week from a transfer from my dad and that is her money-- but it’s also the money that she uses to take care of the family, because the joint account never has enough in it-- but they do try to differentiate “family” expenses from “personal” expenses and I think that’s a big mistake. The money my dad makes that isn’t what’s paid out to the other two accounts stays with him and isn’t generally used for the family. I suspect he has more accounts than we know about, and there is always fighting over who is on the hook for what. When we get married my hope is to have combined accounts… I think the separate thing can work but I’m afraid it may be too easy to build resentments that way over time.</p>
<p>The conversation about what the SO’s parents are like is interesting to me. I think a positive effect of all the discussion about the “sandwich” generation is that the kids of the sandwichers are getting an eyeful of what their futures may hold. We are very cognizant in this “just starting out” phase of life that we will have these kind of obligations in the future and need to be prepared for them. This is an expense we will plan for just like our kids college. Thankfully, our parents shouldn’t need too much in the way of monetary support, but we will do our best to be prepared should that not turn out to be the case.</p>
<p>An unfortunate consequence of having kids so much older these days, something both our parents were ahead of their time on, is that we will still just be starting out when our parents retire most likely. My dad will likely be retirement age right around when we’re having our first child, though I think my parents have no plans to retire on time. I guess they had better not unless they’re ready for it!</p>
<p>I’ll never understand the concept of giving your spouse essentially an allowance or paycheck instead of having a joint account. It’s just strange to me. Meh</p>
<p>Budgets are used to control or provide guidelines for spending and there should be some kind of mechanism to track spending or, at worst, to provide a snapshot of what remains for the budget period. This is how businesses are run. Well, good businesses anyways. If one spouse has a spending problem, then a budget for that spouse may be the way to go. You could have budgets for one, the other, both, additional accounts and categories, etc.</p>
<p>I dunno. I think my marriage works better with my husband basically not having any idea about how much money comes in and how much goes out and where it goes. I’m pretty sure he’d have a nervous breakdown. </p>
<p>I just run things. He buys all the standard household stuff - groceries, etc. And if he wants something that costs over a certain amount he asks me if it’s ok. Not for permission, just to make sure he’s not putting the accounts in a bind (he never does).</p>
<p>Works for us. I think if he was in the loop it would be detrimental. Ignorance is bliss, in this case.</p>
<p>Mom3ToGo and I went to a variant of the 3 account set-up when we hit family inheritances and didn’t want to co-mingle the the family money. We had discussed it earlier but there are a lot of situations that need to be discussed …and for us it just didn’t feel right when we were younger and working our way through life as “us” … the multi-account thing just seemed wrong as a young couple.</p>
<p>BTW - issues to consider …
How should money move to the joint account? 50/50 or as a % of income?
What happens if someone becomes a stay at home parent? … do they need to drain their assets to pay their half?
What happens if someone goes back to grad school?
What if someone changes jobs to a much lower paying job?</p>
<p>Sounds pretty good … but takes some work to implement.</p>
<p>Romani, the allowance can simply be the dollar amount agreed upon by the couple together. My husband technically gives me an allowance but it is simply because he physically goes to the bank and I don’t. We use cash for all incidental purposes because, for us, using the debit card feels like fake money and it is easy to lose track. But when cash is gone we know it. We currently have one in college, one in private school and one who received her master’s degree yesterday (yay!) so we have to be ruthless in tracking our money right now.</p>
I only read a small portion of the posts in this thread, but many of the ones I did read were shocking. I am currently single and dating. I certainly wouldn’t change my mind about marrying someone based on the amount of college debt they have. And I’d be very offended, if my parents suggested otherwise. </p>
<p>I disagree with the whole concept of making income / income potential / college debt / credit score… a primary deciding factor in marriage. However, I would consider how compatible we are in our financial decisions. For example, I’d have a lot of disagreements with a partner who wanted to spend all money available ASAP and live paycheck to paycheck.</p>
<p>ZM, IMO, that’s different. I’m talking more like “here’s $200 I’ll deposit biweekly into your account to do what you want with.” It just feels weird to me. It feels like you’re getting paid to be a spouse. </p>
<p>If I were very attached to the idea of having my own bank account, I’d have to get something from my spouse every month if I were a housewife or stay at home parent in order to keep the account open. We’ve considered that idea as a future arrangement, because I was just raised with the idea that a woman should always have some of her own money… I’m not sure what we’ll decide to do! But we’ve discussed a whole range of options and neither of us is strongly attached to any one way, so I’m sure we’ll work it out.</p>
<p>What I don’t like about my parents arrangement is that my mom only really has access to the money he gives her, which isn’t how we would be doing things even if I did have my own account and get an “allowance” to put in it. Then it begins to feel more like a power thing than a practical matter or a convenience. But, they both seem to be happy with it, so I guess it’s okay.</p>
<p>ETA: Here’s some food for thought: Neither of my parents had any significant debt when they married, but my mom did have a pre-schooler! I feel like most would be okay with that as long as they had a healthy relationship and were mature enough to take on that responsibility when they married (my dad was over 30), and my sister certainly cost as much as a college education over the years. But maybe I have that wrong and that’s just as big of a deal.</p>
And I am the kind who keeps track.)</p>
But maybe I have that wrong and that’s just as big of a deal.</p>