Match an unsure engineer/cs junior [CA resident, 3.87 GPA (3.78/4.22/4.44 for UC), 34 ACT]

Chance Me / Match Me
1

Demographics

  • US citizen
  • State/Location of residency: California
  • Type of high school (or current college for transfers): large public hs
  • Other special factors: legacy at Princeton and USC (CA)

Cost Constraints / Budget
*We are full pay. Fit is most important to us.

Intended Major(s) S27 is waffling between CS and engineering (ME, Aero, maybe Materials Science).

At this point, S27 is a kid who is falling in love with planes and still loves coding; he doesn’t know how to combine the two. Our family dinners regularly (d)evolve into discussions about the state of the world, some discussion I don’t understand involving coding or robotics, or entreaties that the world could be changed if we just solved “x” problem. He could (and sometimes does) spend hours playing video games with his friends, loves a good D&D character, and will debate you to death if you malign cats. I’ll never say never, but I think he’s unlikely to join a fraternity unless it gives off some pretty nerdy vibes, and would be equally happy to play ultimate frisbee as tailgate before a football game. He is much more driven by outcomes (Can I get into a “good” grad school if I want it? Will this school allow me to find a “good” job-ideally on the west coast-after I graduate?) than he is location/size of school/weather. If pushed, he says he prefers cold vs hot (but again, is flexible), and prefers a place that has access to outdoor activities that is not rural (again, flexible).

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
UW: 3.86 Note: S27 has two Bs first semester of junior year (as well as 2 Bs last year), which makes me concerned that this closes doors to more selective engineering schools. Feel free to confirm or refute this.

Weighted: 4.24 (school gives 1 extra point for AP)

for UCs:
UW: 3.78
Weighted, capped: 4.22
Weighted, uncapped: 4.44

  • Class Rank: School does not rank
  • ACT/SAT Scores: ACT 34 one sitting. Planning on retesting.
  • APs: AP Spanish Lang 5, AP World 5, AP Computer Science Principles 5. Will test for APUSH, AP Calc BC, AP Java, AP Physics C, AP Lang in May.

List your HS coursework
School does not offer honors level courses frosh year. Honors level courses sophomore year are not given an extra point for gpa. S27 has taken the most rigorous level available to him.

  • English: English 9, Honors English 10, AP Lang; AP Lit (projected 12th)
  • Math: Alg II Honors, Pre-Calc (no honors available), AP Calc BC; Multivariable (projected 12th)
  • Science: Bio (H not available), Chem (H not available), AP Physics C; AP Physics E&M (projected 12th), maybe AP Chem (projected 12th)
  • History and social studies: Ethnic Studies, AP World, APUSH; Gov/Econ (AP not offered)
  • Language other than English: Took Spanish 1-3 in middle school, Spanish 4, AP Spanish Lang
  • Visual or performing arts: Drama (1 year)
  • Other academic courses: Debate, AP Computer Science Principles, AP Java

Awards
his robotics team won an award for community outreach

Extracurriculars
Robotics–lead and specialist, drove the robot at world championship. This is a huge time commitment for him (20+ hours/wk)
Ultimate frisbee
Debate
Youth group at church
Volunteering in community with robotics

Essays/LORs/Other
He’s still figuring out who will write recs. I suspect they will be solid and positive.
Essays will be agonized over but will likely turn out well.

Schools
I’m unsure about many of the following schools that are on his to be considered list.
*UCs feel unpredictable. He may apply to all, but Merced and Riverside are a very hard sell at his school. I have no magic wand to erase the comments of his friends about them and at some point need to let go and claim that peers are influential.
*Cal States: 1st choice would be SLO, hands down. He will likely add at least some of the following–Cal Poly Pomona, Long Beach, SDSU, Fullerton, SJSU. (Our local school is not one he is interested in.) Chico would again be a hard sell, but I might try.
*OOS publics: Minnesota, Purdue, University of Washington, Utah, Pitt, Penn State, University of MD College Park, University of AZ?, Oregon State, Colorado School of Mines, University of Colorado, Ohio State. I’m assuming UIUC and GT are out of reach?
*Tech schools: WPI, RPI, Stevens, maybe Olin?
*Other privates: Lehigh, Case Western, University of Rochester, RIT, maybe Santa Clara?.
*Canada: S27 is intrigued by Canadian schools. UBC, Toronto, Waterloo.

Given his stats, I don’t know how to categorize these schools for engineering/cs. I’m hopeful that he will be able to pull his grades up for this semester, but if his goal is to make it back to the start up world in CA, I don’t know if some places would be better than others.

And I get it, there is no defining commonality among these schools except that they offer engineering. Honestly, that’s ok for right now. I’m trying to pull together a spring break trip to see some of these and that may help us shape his list a bit better.

I’d appreciate your thoughts on the following (or any other thoughts you want to share with a long-winded parent typing at the keyboard):

  • Schools that might let him explore within the engineering school before committing to one major and/or would make it relatively easy to switch between them once he has a little more experience under his belt. Feel free to add schools or emphasize ones already on the list.
  • Help with categorizing the above schools given that he doesn’t have a 4.0 unweighted and feels like a pretty typical robotics kid. Engineering and CS feel so competitive.
  • I’d love thoughts for which would be the strongest programs. I believe that ABET accreditation is a minimum and that not all ABET programs are the same.

Thank you, CC! You helped me with D25 and I’m grateful to be back again with S27.

2

So I see a couple “pressure” concerns in your post.

  1. Look into a program like Purdue STEP or Rose Hulman Operation Catapult - or you might find others - where he can explore his interest the summer before. They often feature several types of engineering or maybe even CS, etc. It’s great to have a chance to explore.
  2. His grades are his grades. A B isn’t death.
  3. Engineering and to an extent CS are not prestige focused. You noted fit is important - so selective or otherwise, shouldn’t be a concern. A budget (which your not concerned about) is a part of fit but prestige shouldn’t necessarily be. My son turned down a top 10 engineering school (Purdue) for Alabama. Why? Purdue was overcrowded and housing off campus. My son is a germ phobe and at Bama got his own dorm room and shared a bathroom with one other. That’s his fit. I protested, and he told me I was wrong - rank is for magazine sales and parents. Companies don’t care. He interned with two kids from arguably the top engineering school - he was invited back a 2nd summer. They weren’t. He had 19 interviews and 5 offers by Christmas - his inten company was his 6th offer - again from Alabama - and was hired in a group that included top schools like Michigan, some UCs, Case Western, Washington but also W Michigan, Buffalo, Akron and more. And they all started at the same salary. He joined a leadership program and was at trivia night - and somehow met a Columbia grad at a different company - and found out he started at a higher salary. So I think you can remove some of the pressure from your kid - at least that I’m feeling from your post.

As for grad school - yes he can - whether a 5th year engineering program or law school (Harvard’s first year class is represented by over 160 schools; Penn by 200+ in the school - from Arkansas State to Youngstown State, they’re all there - because it’s drive by LSAT and GPA and today, work experience. For an MBA, your work experience, GPA, and GMAT will matter - where you went undergrad won’t.

Since he took the ACT once, it’s ok to take a few more times - but a 34 is incredible and while you’re not concerned with budget, will score you significant merit, potentially giving you a $20K a year spend. I was that fortunate person. You might decide, we love said schools that can do that - and given those kids will be working with the perceived high rank school kids, that school may fit them (forgetting the budget) - you won’t be losing anything. What you want is ABET accreditation.

As for CS, many here do push the pedigree - but my nephew is a Poli Sci major from Arizona. Many CS jobs require competency tests. He self studied and is at a FAANG making - near $200K. I’ve read a parent here whose kid went to N Georgia, recruited by Google. I know a person here in Nashville who works for Oracle, recruited from UT Chattanooga. So again, you have today kids from top schools like UNC, UCB not finding jobs but then others finding jobs. No school gives you an assurance and no school is a cemetery.

As for where you’ll be employed, my kids offers were anywhere but the Southeast and he’s in Irvine (after doing a leadership rotational in Utah, Arizona, California, and Florida). My College of Charleston daughter is in Denver. WIth the Internet, the world has changed - you will get hired where you apply, etc. - and any school allows you to find a good job but no school finds you a job. Cornell, until recently, showed how kids found jobs on their career website. They took it down. Overwhelmingly, it was through corporate online listings and online sources (linkedin and indeed). Some but small amounts were through career fairs, on campus recruiting and alums. So kids find jobs - schools will give tools, encourage and help but the onus is on the kid.

Your son sounds great - has great rigor, interesting ECs (you want to do what you want - whether it’s walking dogs at the shelter, a job at McDonalds - it doesn’t have to be STEM. You want tenure - so depth and responsibility, not just a long list. It sounds like he might have it.

You have very different schools list - it’s like a who’s who. I would suggest you visit some - they don’t even need to be STEM oriented - but schools of different sizes near home or on trips (take a half day and stop somewhere)…..and different environments (urban, rural, suburban).

U Washington for CS is a hard no but for engineering could work. U list many on here he’d get into - but Mines is very different than Minnesota, etc. WPI and RPI are different than Penn State which is very different than Pitt. Then there’s BU - which is uber urban, etc. So take some trips - and figure out what he wants in a campus, etc - from size to weather to outside things. You are lucky that you can fund anything.

One last thing - you’ll want to ensure ABET accreditation for engineering. Aero only has 70 schools - so you might want to choose from that list. Materials is also about 70 schools whereas MechE is hundreds and CS even more. So you might want to look at schools that have all these majors. On the other hand, all engineering types work at aero companies - civil, electrical, mechanical (like my son).

The other thing you noted - schools that don’t force you into a major - Purdue has first year engineering where all take the same. Texas A&M has ETAM - but these don’t ensure the major you want - they are competitive to get the one you want after you are there. Ga Tech allows you one switch of majors, UIUC has an undeclared - and well you can figure that out later. But schools like Mizzou, Iowa State and others - have undeclared majors.

So at this point, if it were me, I’d:

  1. Look for a summer program (start with STEP at Purdue but you can find others - some like STEP are competitive entry)
  2. Visit schools - and figure out what he likes - because you are all over the place
  3. Slow down - if he goes to easy to get in U of Arizona or UCB, he’s likely going to be working in similar roles, along with MIT grads, Kansas State grads and more - especially in engineering

He’s 16/17 - life is long and there is plenty of time.

But since budget isn’t an issue and since fit is most important, take the time to find the right fit, not the most impressive name. And don’t worry about Bs - if Stanford or MIT won’t take him, oh well. Their loss. But it’s more important he find where the gain is for him. There will be lots of schools - lots of possibilities. statistically, the schools need him far more than he needs them.

Good luck.

3

The Canadian education system is quite consistently good. There are a lot of universities in Canada that might be worth considering. Since you are on the west coast, you might for example want to take a look at Simon Fraser University and the University of Victoria. If you wanted to go further east then McMaster and Queen’s are quite good (both are in Ontario). Calgary and Alberta are quite good, although the U. of Alberta is in Edmonton, which has very cold winters even by Canadian standards. Of all of these, the schools in British Columbia on the west coast would have by far the mildest winters (lots of rain, not much snow). Victoria has the mildest winters in Canada. UBC would similarly have wet but relatively mild winters. The cost might vary significantly for an international student so check this out and keep the exchange rate in mind. Of course McGill is also very good, with the unusual feature of being an English language university in a bilingual but majority French city in a French province.

One daughter was a very strong student in high school here in the US, but decided to attend a small school in Canada that other students in her high school had never heard of. They were bugging her about it and asking “where?” and “why?”. I told her that once we got to the border this would change to “great school”. We flew up for orientation and at immigration told them why we were there. The asked “which university?”. My daughter pointed to the t-shirt she was wearing. The next two words out of the border agent’s mouth: “Great school!”. We couldn’t have pulled this off better if we had rehearsed it. The check in agent at our B&B had the same reaction.

Similarly, if your son ends up at Merced or Riverside, once he gets on campus the reaction is going to be very positive. These are very good universities.

And by the way I did attend a famous grad school in California for my master’s degree, and the other students in the same program came from a huge range of undergraduate universities. I also know several people who did undergrad in Canada and either did or are currently doing a very good graduate program (master’s or PhD or both) in the USA (this includes the daughter who I just mentioned).

What classes are these in? B’s in math or physics might be unfortunate for an engineering or CS student applying to highly ranked universities. B’s in art or history or literature might not matter as much.

There is software, and math, involved in designing and building airplanes. This sounds to me like a combination made in heaven. Actually, there is software and math involved in building a lot of things.

3 Likes
4

The nerds are going to gravitate to the engineering colleges like:

SLO
Colorado school of Mines
Rose-Hulman
Stevens Tech
Cooper Union
RIT
RPI
WPI
Olin

1 Like
5

And for plane buffs - Embry Riddle and Florida Tech. What sold my son on ERAU (they told him at the college fair and it was true on our visit) - the Florida campus is on the Daytona Beach airport. When planes take off, everyone looks up). The entire school is aero focused. He didn’t like it upon the visit - but if the kid loves planes, it’s heaven (assuming a fit when visiting). The Prescott AZ campus is very different - much more woodsy.

6

Just to clarify, Cal Poly SLO, like Purdue, has a great college of engineering, but, also like Purdue, and unlike the rest of the list, engineers make up only 25% of the student body.

Back to the OP, look into Mechatronics. It’s the intersection of ME, EE, and CS.

3 Likes
7

Most today have minors and all certainly have coursework in robotics - but these 18 are ABET accredited in Mechatronics Engineering. As OP will see, often the names are quite different than they’re expecting.

California State University, Channel Islands Camarillo California
California State University, Chico Chico California
University of Hartford West Hartford Connecticut
Kennesaw State University Kennesaw Georgia
Northern Illinois University Dekalb Illinois
Southern Illinois University Edwardsville Edwardsville Illinois
Anderson University (Indiana) Anderson Indiana
United States Naval Academy Annapolis Maryland
Worcester Polytechnic Institute Worcester Massachusetts
University of Michigan - Dearborn Dearborn Michigan
Michigan Technological University Houghton Michigan
Lake Superior State University Sault Ste. Marie Michigan
Lawrence Technological University Southfield Michigan
Vaughn College of Aeronautics and Technology Flushing New York
Miami University Oxford Ohio
Widener University Chester Pennsylvania
Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro Tennessee
8

A mechatronics concentration through ME or EE depending on the school is sufficient. I bring it up because their student is conflicted between engineering and CS. This way they get a dose of both.

3 Likes
9

But hopefully they can find a program - STEP, Operation Catapult or others (there are others) and get a sampling. It can help. Purdue helped my kid validate.

Not sure the details on this one but OP can look it up:

Here’s maybe a good one at UNCA

Introduction to Engineering & Mechatronics | UNC Asheville

10

I just want to note that at some schools CS and engineering are in different colleges within the same university. If the student is unsure of major when applying, start in the more selective major as it’s typically easier to switch out than in. I second doing a summer program like STEP and happy to answer any questions about the program as my d was both a participant and later interned with that program.

I don’t think two Bs should scare your child off from applying to UIUC or GT. Yes they are reaches for OOS applicants but your child has high rigor and scores, and a strong profile

4 Likes
11

Engineering is now 33% of the undergrad population or 13,000+ students/class. That doesn’t include CS. And the majority of the students are majoring in STEM fields.

2 Likes
12

Thanks.

The rest of which list?

13

This list, but it’s really a tangential point that I probably should have left alone. Oh well…can’t unring that bell. :smiley:

1 Like
14

Much of the existing list is of schools that either:

  • Admit to major, but can be difficult to switch engineering or CS majors because they are full, or
  • Admit to a first year undeclared engineering program, but have secondary admission to major that may require a high college GPA or be competitive.

The UCs besides Merced, the CSUs on the list, and some others like UIUC fall into the first category, while some of the out of state schools like Minnesota, Purdue, Washington, Ohio State, and Penn State fall into the second category.

15

They are not all 25% engineers, but more.

16

When I read your description of your S27, my first thought went to Colorado School of Mines.

I feel like this one marks off almost everything on the ‘fit’ list.

At this school you also do not declare your major until at least yr 2 so plenty of time for exploration (when applying- you list intended major- but are not required to stay with that choice. It is just where they start you out at) The biggest downside of this one- most do not graduate in 4 years because many students change focus at some point :person_shrugging:. Both a bad and good aspect.

This school was on my D26s list for many years and stayed a top contender up until just recently. She went with and just committed to RIT. Like you- fit was the biggest factor and she felt like this was the better fit in the end.

Good luck!
We are local to Mines and CU Boulder- so feel free to ask questions about the area if/when you get to that stage of decision making ;-).

2 Likes
17

That’s my point. Cal Poly is erroneously thought to be a tech school, but it is a typical, full course offering university, with a very good college of engineering. You can study child development, music, history, journalism, kinesiology, agribusiness, etc. They offer a breadth of majors that most of the rest on the list don’t.

Why do I belabor the point? Engineering and CS have high drop out rates. Students who are unsure about their career path might be better served at schools with a wide variety of majors. Cal Poly is one such school, as is Purdue. Olin, Rose, Mines…not so much. They are great for kids like mine who know/knew their path, with certainty, early, but not necessarily the best fit for the equivocal.

1 Like
18

Thanks. Good points.

In general, I agree with your advice. With regard to this student, I think it’s worth it for him to consider more focused schools such as the ones I listed. But I’ve never even met him, so what do I know? Mine is just one piece of advice amidst all the rest for the OP to consider and either find useful or choose to ignore.

1 Like
19

Thanks for chiming in! Let me respond to some questions:

@tsbna44 , We will be visiting various campuses over the next few months, some to check out the school itself, others to check on size/location, etc. He has been to a couple large state schools and says they are fine with him/not overwhelming. He says he’d like a school bigger than his high school, but there are very few schools with engineering smaller than 2k. (Olin is the rare exception on this list, but it also is one of the only tech schools that has a roughly equal male: female ratio, so, for now, it stays on. I suspect it will fall off later, but…) I apologize if my original post came off as pressure; I think it’s probably due to watching friends’ kids really want to attend 6/9 UCs (not Riverside or Merced, and Santa Cruz doesn’t offer ME/Aero), them having better stats than my kid, and them being shut out of those schools. I am not interested in getting into a discussion of why certain UCs/Cal States are considered “better” than others by the teens at his high school. After walking through this with D25 I’ve had to accept that kids get to choose which schools seem interesting to them, and ultimately, I want S27 to be excited about whichever school he chooses. Would it be nice if he and his buddies didn’t eliminate some schools for what I deem frivolous reasons? Sure. But kids choose schools for any number of reasons. He is applying for Purdue’s STEP program, among a couple of others, as well as in a competitive process for applying to a couple of summer internships. We’ll see if any come to fruition. Re: Embry-Riddle, it hasn’t been ruled out entirely, but without going into areas not allowed here, I am concerned about public health issues in FL. Thank you for your thoughts and well wishes!

@DadTwoGirls Among the schools you mentioned, are there some you’d recommend more than others? We used to live in WA and have spent time in Vancouver, which is why UBC came on board. Waterloo got added when he was super interested in CS and he liked the co-op program and start-up type feeling he sensed from the program. I’m not sure his GPA won’t be too low for engineering at a place like McGill, which is why it wasn’t on the list above. I’ll have him poke around more at the ones you listed.
Ah, which classes for the Bs. Unfortunately, they were in Calc BC and Physics C. The former has no excuse (it was a B+). The latter? Well, his school has recently decided that you don’t need any experience in physics to take AP Physics C. The learning curve was steep last semester, and he massively failed one exam and couldn’t dig himself out from the B. The silver lining is that he learned to ask for help and that doing so doesn’t mean he is dumb. Great life lesson, poor timing. :slight_smile: If this precludes some schools, so be it. He’s going to get a great education wherever he lands. But if this changes anyone’s thoughts about schools, do let me know. My goal is that he will have more wins than losses by spring, 2027, and would like to help him shape his list with that goal in mind.

@Bill_Marsh , I like all of those schools for him except Cooper Union, as my sense is he does not want to be in the heart of NYC. (Stevens would be fine.) I just wish that more of them were more gender balanced. It’s one of many reasons why SLO is at the top of my list for him. We’ll see how he ranks the gender ratio as we move deeper in this process. I definitely want him to visit a couple of these more focused schools this spring to see if he’s up for everyone being all in on STEM or if he wants a more diverse student population (re: majors).

@eyemgh , I’ll tell him about this! I didn’t realize this was an option.

@momofboiler1 , I know that CS/Eng are sometimes in different schools. For those schools, he’s just going to have to choose. For example, I’m confident he would apply to engineering at UW (WA), because the 2% OOS for CS isn’t going to happen. What I want to find out is whether or not he could potentially get classes for a CS minor, or if it’s too impacted for non-majors to do so.

@ucbalumnus , I agree with your two categories. One of the reasons I like Case for him is that he doesn’t have to declare anything and that there are no restrictions on major. I was hoping against hope that there were other schools more akin to this that I might have missed.

@co2mom , I really liked Mines for him even before you told me you don’t have to declare until year two. Now even more! Thanks for this. I will likely be in touch.

20

Good point. McGill does admit by major and engineering is a tough one to get admitted to.

I think that they are all very good. However, between your being on the west coast, and with stats that are not quite perfect, I might be inclined to look first at the University of Victoria and at Simon Fraser University.