Match pre-med junior from MA [3.5 UW, 35 ACT / 1510 SAT, pre-med/medical research]

Chance Me / Match Me
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My older sibling posted this on my behalf a few months ago - repost on my account.

Demographics

  • US domestic (MA)
  • Competitive public school
  • Mixed white/Asian
  • Diagnosed with ADHD in high school; grades have improved since freshman year after starting medication and consistently show an upward trend (almost all A-s and As first quarter)
  • Current junior

Intended Major(s)
Interested in pre-med/medical research. Considering biochemistry, maybe neuroscience or molecular biology?

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.50 as of sophomore year
  • Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 4.02 (4.66 scale; honors and AP get +.66)
  • Class Rank: n/a
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1510 (740R 770M); 35 ACT (34W 36R 35M 35S)

Coursework

  • All honors classes when available
  • AP Calculus BC as a sophomore (5 and 5 AB subscore)
  • Currently taking AP Statistics, self-studying AP English Language
  • Currently taking Latin 4H and Spanish 4H
  • Planning to take AP spanish AP bio orgo maybe AP chem

Awards

  • Anticipated National Merit Commended
  • Award for character on JV soccer team
  • Global Citizen Award for world language
  • 2 Volunteer u16 gold medal PVSA

Extracurriculars

  • JV soccer team (junior year)
  • School ski racing team (9th grade - present)(hopefully captain next year)
  • Track freshman year
  • Local ski racing team (junior year)
  • Geography club (no current official title but one of founding members)
  • At one point ranked top 200 worldwide in GeoGuessr
  • Will be doing scientific research with Harvard professor
  • Volunteered at local hospital (60 hours)
  • Volunteered abroad in Spain on a farm (40 hours)

Cost Constraints / Budget

  • Full pay (529 account from parents) - roughly 300k saved by high school graduation

Schools Likes:

  • Opportunity to do research as an undergraduate
  • Close enough to a hospital for shadowing/volunteering opportunities
  • (Sibling addendum: I think a school with smaller classes/more individualized attention would be good for him; his teachers all love him when they get to know him + I think that would be a benefit for his general performance and also rec letters for when he applies to med school)
  • Merit aid

Schools Dislikes:

  • Small school (<3,000 students)
  • Heavy drinking culture (to the point that it would be difficult to abstain from drinking without social consequences)

Current Schools Being Considered:

  • UMass Amherst
  • ASU (Barrett Honors College)
  • Baylor
  • URochester
  • Wake Forest
  • University of South Carolina (Honors College)
  • UW Madison (legacy)
  • Claremont Consortium schools
  • Tulane
  • Tufts
  • Notre Dame
  • Georgetown
  • Emory
  • Rice
  • WashU St Louis

Considering BS/MD programs but dont know if application is strong enough

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Original thread for reference

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yes, that’s us! this new thread my brother started should be more updated with recent test scores, future coursework, and a potential school list. i’ll try to refrain from chiming in unless asked :laughing:

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Do you have your first semester junior grades yet? How did they impact your GPA?

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Do you have updated grades? Will your parents continue funding the 529 once you begin college? You are very lucky right now.

I feel that you have a lot of reaches on this list. I would add Pitt and possibly (if you want) another state school such as Binghamton or Rutgers so that you have more choices (Bing may give you some merit given you are OOS and Rutgers would be more of a match given what I am seeing now). I think you will get into SC but cannot comment on honors. I would save your money for med school/grad school and attend your instate public or a school that comes in at a “lower” cost. The privates on your list are very, very expensive.

Rutgers and Pitt have hospitals nearby, and I am not sure about Bing. You may or may not be able to shadow…depending on the policy. My daughter was able to volunteer at the campus hospital (different school) but shadowed at home during school breaks.

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Congratulations on your great ACT scores!

I am not sure going from a 3.5 to your junior year implied grades will be enough for most of these proposed schools. I see Baylor, U Mass, ASU and U South Carolina working out. Combined programs won’t happen, and the 2 honors colleges are iffy. Maybe if you apply ED to Tulane you pull it or possibly your scores impress UW.

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Does the 3.5 include freshman year grades?

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You can take the required courses for medical school applicants at any of the schools on your current list…and really any four year college in this country (arts conservatories excluded).

I see you have a couple of rolling admission schools on your list and that’s a good thing. It would be nice to have an early acceptance.

While finances aren’t an issue for undergrad (which is wonderful), what is the plan to pay if you get accepted to medical school. That will be another $100,000 a year or so.

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Congratulations on starting the college search process (apart from your sibling’s thread :wink:). Your test scores are very strong and you have some interesting ECs as well. Your GPA is on the lower side for many of the schools you’re considering, but you do have an upward trend, which is great.

Although you indicated N/A for rank, talk to your school counselor or ask for the school profile because there will generally be some indication of your approximate rank. A 3.5UW GPA might be in the top 20% at some schools or in the bottom 50% at other schools. Finding out how your GPA compares to those at your school is important and is often a consideration in college admissions.

You’re very fortunate to have such a robust 529 amount. Do your parents intend to provide additional funding for medical school, or is the $300k reserved for your post-secondary education, and it needs to last as long as possible? If the latter, it would be wise to minimize your expenses in college (either by choosing a school with lower costs or that gives you significant merit aid) so that you can then have more money to pay for graduate school.

Below are my guesses as to what your chances might be at these schools.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Arizona State…Barrett, however, is a different issue. Barrett is test blind so it won’t see your scores and the average unweighted high school GPA is 3.81 (source).

Likely (60-79%)

  • Baylor

  • U. of South Carolina…but honors would be super tough

  • Tulane - ED

  • UMass – Amherst

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • UW – Madison

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • U. of Rochester

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Claremont Consortium

  • Wake Forest

  • Tulane – non -ED

  • Emory – especially if you include the Oxford campus for the first 2 years

Very Low Probability

  • Tufts

  • Notre Dame

  • Georgetown

  • Rice

  • Wash U

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BS/MD will not be an option for him. Most colleges will have all the prereqs for premeds. UMass Amherst is an excellent option, since it will allow preservation of 529 funds for med school. UMass Amherst has a supported research program for undergrads that would be perfect for him.

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The previous posts may have been a bit of a downer in terms of what you were probably hoping to hear. It’s just that you selected some of the most popular programs in the country that have far more qualified applicants than they accept. There are tons of colleges, however, that would love to have you. Most of the schools I mention below are in the extremely likely bucket because you are obviously very academically capable.

In thinking about what you want from your college experience, these are some other schools you may want to consider. They have close access to hospitals and health facilities, they’re often known for their science/health programs, they meet your size preferences, they’re likely to either have smaller classes generally speaking or you’d have a good shot at honors, and most of them are likely to give you merit aid, quite possibly extremely generous merit aid that would bring your costs down to be as low or lower than your in-state flagship. They are sorted by my guesses as to what your chances might be at these schools.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Butler (IN): About 4400 undergrads

  • Creighton (NE): About 4300 undergrads

  • Duquesne (PA ): About 5100 undergrads

  • Gonzaga (WA): About 5100 undergrads

  • Hope (MI): About 3300 undergrads

  • Ithaca (NY): About 4600 undergrads

  • Loyola Chicago (IL): About 12k undergrads

  • Loyola New Orleans (LA): About 3300 undergrads and literally right next door to Tulane. Students can take classes and meals at the other college, too, along with some of the city’s HBCUs including Xavier which has one of the top med school preparatory programs in the country.

  • Marist (NY): About 5500 undergrads

  • Marquette (WI): About 7500 undergrads

  • Mercer (GA): About 4900 undergrads

  • Miami (OH): About 17k undergrads, has the reputation of being a big liberal arts college. Might have a chance at its honors college.

  • Ohio U.: About 18k undergrads and might have a chance at honors here. Its honors program has been noted nationally a number of times.

  • Saint Joseph’s (PA ): About 5100 undergrads. The school also recently acquired the University of the Sciences, bolstering its offerings in that area.

  • Saint Louis (MO): About 11k undergrads

  • SUNY Geneseo: About 4100 undergrads

  • Truman State (MO): About 3600 undergrads at this public liberal arts college

  • U. of Alabama – Birmingham: About 13k undergrads and a really strong program in the bio and health sciences. An offer to honors would be extremely likely.

  • U. of Denver (CO): About 6200 undergrads and another option where skiing could be easily continued

  • U. of Houston (TX): About 38k undergrads, has access to all the medical/health facilities of Houston, and I think you’d have a fair chance of being accepted to its honors college.

  • U. of Maryland – Baltimore County: About 11k undergrads and known for its science programs

  • U. of Montana: About 7200 undergrads and continuing to ski would likely be an option. I think you’d have a fair chance at honors here, too.

  • U. of St. Thomas (MN): About 5900 undergrads with popular majors in biochem, neuroscience, and bio.

  • U. of Nebraska – Lincoln: About 19k undergrads and a shot at honors

  • U. of Scranton (PA ): About 3600 undergrads and strong sciences and health focus

Likely (60-79%)

  • Fordham (NY): About 10k undergrads, and if you do become a National Merit Finalist, I believe that most NMFs get substantial merit aid (@fiftyfifty1 may be able to provide more info)

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Binghamton (NY): About 14k undergrads

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Brandeis (MA): About 3700 undergrads

Low Probability (less than 20%)

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One issue that I see is that medical school is very expensive. Even with $300,000 in a 529, it would be best, to keep medical school as a valid option, to find a relatively inexpensive undergraduate school so that some of this money can be saved for medical school.

Another issue is that a premed student will want to get quite a bit of experience in a medical environment, and a potential researcher will want to get quite a bit of experience in a research environment, and they are not quite the same thing. However, there are doctors who are involved in medical research, so there are certainly students who manage to get this experience. Also, this is something that a student can figure out over time after they get to university.

To me, since you are a Massachusetts resident, it looks like U.Mass Amherst would be a very good choice. It should cost a lot less than $300,000 for four years, and therefore should allow quite a bit of that money to be saved for medical school. UVM is another option. UVM would most likely cost a bit more than U.Mass, but should still be well under $300,000 for four years if you get a merit scholarship (which at least seems possible assuming that you can continue the strong grades).

To me Emory, Rice and WUSTL seem like high reaches, as do the combined BD/MD programs. Probably the same would be true for Tufts and the Claremont Consortium schools. Wisconsin also looks like a reach. Some of your other schools to me do not look to have any real advantage over U.Mass, which is very good.

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Fordham does give a full tuition scholarship to some of its National Merit students. But rumor has it that Fordham has been doing this less often than in the past. They used to give it to ~70% of National Merit applicants, but over the last couple of years it seems to be less. Perhaps still worth an application if OP does get NMSF (instead of Commended) after all, and if OP really likes NYC. Otherwise, OP probably has some better options.

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Dead-on.

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Thanks for all the suggestions and comments!

I will certainly look into all of those colleges and I will tour U mass soon.

Do y’all think ED to Tulane would be worth it or should I just go to U Mass.

My first semester grades were in the A-/A range and my midterms went well.

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Look into the Biotap program at umass, also the office of undergrad research. They really do have a lot to offer, and it is a bargain in state.

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Socially, may not be a fit - but your call on that. The odds are pretty accurate.

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At full price? 200k more for tulane over umass amherst? No way. Even at the same price, no.

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Agree about Parentologist about this if your intention is med school.

First off, I would only ED to a school if it is your clear first choice, it is affordable, and you have visited the school while it’s in session. It sounds as though you’re thinking about EDing there because it might be the highest “ranked” school with your best odds for admission. In my opinion, that is not a good reason to ED.

UMass is an excellent school and is strong in many areas. As your in-state school, it’s likely to come in at a competitive price point. That does not mean, however, that it’s necessarily the best school for you. I have heard that getting into honors at UMass can be quite challenging. If you don’t get into UMass honors, then I think you’re going to have a number of larger classes which might not be the best fit for you.

On the other hand, there are schools with smaller classes that would be likely to give you very generous merit aid. For instance, U. of Scranton doesn’t have any classes with more than 50 students while UMass has 18%. That is definitely worth money to me, and Scranton might even come in at the same price or lower as UMass. Whether Scranton would be a good fit for OP is for him to decide, but although UMass is a great deal for Massachusetts residents, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right choice for all students.

I went ahead and pulled the class sizes for the schools I suggested in my previous post, primarily using this aggregator and then USNWR for whichever schools weren’t in the aggregator. Also, if a school becomes of greater interest, I’d strongly recommend looking at its Common Data Set (CDS) as it will break down class sizes even further, they classes with 20-29 students, 30-39 students, 40-49 students, etc. Classes with 25 kids are a lot different than classes with 45, and the CDS will be able to help suss out the best fit.

Additionally, take a look at honors programs at the various universities to see your shot for admission and to figure out how many larger classes you’d need to have. For instance, U. of Nebraska has the same % of classes over 50 as UMass, and U. of Houston has an even higher percentage. But if you get into their honors programs, then your class sizes might look very different than at these numbers below.

School Classes under 20 Classes 20-49 Classes 50+
Marist 51% 49% 0%
U. of Scranton 53% 47% 0%
Gonzaga 42% 57% 1%
U. of St. Thomas 39% 61% 1%
Fordham 52% 48% 1%
Loyola New Orleans 49.2% 49.6% 1.2%
Hope 59% 39% 2%
Truman State 63% 36% 2%
Saint Joseph’s 48.6% 48.8% 2.6%
Butler 48% 49% 4%
Ithaca 59% 37% 4%
Loyola Chicago 40% 57% 4%
Mercer 54% 42% 4%
Creighton 47% 47% 6%
Saint Louis 39% 54% 7%
SUNY Geneseo 34% 59% 7%
U. of Denver 55% 38% 7%
Duquesne 45% 48% 8%
Marquette 50% 40% 9%
U. of Montana 54% 37% 10%
Brandeis 60% 30% 10%
Miami (OH) 35% 53% 12%
U. of Mayrland - Baltimore County 40% 48% 13%
Ohio U. 32% 54% 14%
Binghamton 48% 38% 14%
U. of Alabama - Birmingham 46% 39% 15%
U. Mass - Amherst 47% 35% 18%
U. of Nebraska - Lincoln 34% 47% 18%
U. of Houston 34% 45% 21%
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So I wanted to give you some comfort if you decide to target UMass.

There are a lot of doctors’ kids and such in our feederish HS, and many of their kids are looking at premed tracks. Many of those kids then do NOT try to get into the most selective colleges that will take them. They very carefully target schools that will be relatively affordable for them, but also have strong related departments, and lots of experience opportunities. So, these are kids targeting colleges like Pitt if in-state, Case Western with merit aid, and so on. I note it is extremely likely most of these families COULD pay more for college, but even they are choosing to save those resources for med school, because med school is insanely expensive.

And by the way, a lot of those kids were done with the college application process early, and on to just having a great senior year. Which is not at all a bad thing either.

My point is if you identify UMass as that sort of college for you, and in fact you get admitted, I think you should not be concerned you are doing something wrong if it is really as simple as that. Sure, lots of your peers may still be scrambling around trying to barely scrape into a more selective college, but you really, really do not need to be part of that. Too many kids seem to think if it is simple and relatively easy it can’t be worthwhile, but eventually they will see that the people who keep it simple often do quite well for themselves.

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