<p>Virginians are fortunate to have so many options- and I think students find when they visit that just because a school is ranked higher doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best fit for them. In fact, I know students who - <em>gasp</em>- have actually chosen to attend JMU and Tech when also accepted to UVA. Each school is going to have strengths and weaknesses and I think the key is finding the best fit for you.</p>
<p>Dean J thanks again for you reasoned response to the process. I also agree that we are blessed with several excellent schools in Virginia, however I disagree that anyone thinks they are “entitled to go to UVA” simply because they live in Virginia. If I live in Virginia and my daughter is qualified to go to UVA (thanks for your honesty regarding many qualified people don’t get in because of the selectivity and the fact that it is not a very big school) then why in the world would I be okay with someone not from Virginia getting into the school when part of my taxes (whether it be 13%, 8% or 2%) go to funding the school? That same argument was used by VMI for well over thirty years for excluding woman from the school. They said the exact same thing you just said regarding their position on not admitting woman. “There are many fine schools in Virginia that are excellent. Why don’t they go to one of the other schools?” </p>
<p>Secondly, I understand that the information posted on a colleges site are “statistics” and “not criteria” but exactly what do you expect potential students to use when assessing their credentials against those at the school? Should a student with average SAT scores apply to Harvard because there is a .000003% chance they will get in to the school? I know that you can’t give a specific set of criteria but can’t you look at the “statistics” and gauge where you stand?</p>
<p>As an OOS student, I’m so grateful to be attending this school – the educational options in my home state sucked so much (and sucked especially in terms of science and research).</p>
<p>(btw I do intend to immigrate to Virginia after I graduate) </p>
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The international students admitted tend to be quite more qualified than domestic students, even OOS ones. To the tons of overqualified students applying from Beijing, UVA is a safety while they look at options like Cambridge.</p>
<p>Also, I only had to take out under a $1000 in loans this year (and I’m OOS) – AccessUVA is pretty good at giving grants to fulfill need.</p>
<p>Part of the problem is that the US education system (fiscally) is still stuck in the feudal age of the Articles of Confederation era – nearly all the other nations at the top of the international education rankings have nationalised, highly efficient education systems, while we’re stuck with backwater state-funded, local-funded education systems.</p>
<p>If education in the US were nationalised, we wouldn’t be having this OOS v. IS debate</p>
<p>But Wu, can you major in whining in Asia?</p>
<p>As a nova parent I’m with Barq45. There’s this idea out there that getting into u-va, especially from nova, is like getting into harvard, and it just isn’t true. From what I’ve seen the top ten percent of nothern virginia high school students with decent SATs and extras generally DON’T have a lot of trouble getting into u-va, while those without these numbers do. This is really no different than the top california schools, and it’s the way it should be since u-va is a top public university. there’s plenty of room at plenty of other perfectly good state colleges in virginia for kids who can’t get into u-va.</p>
<p>i have kids who went to u-va and ones who went elsewhere in state because they couldn’t get in. and they’re all fine.</p>
<p>This is pretty worrying. I’d like to see UVA going private so that OOS and international students have the opportunity to attend our school.</p>
<p>I fully agree with Barboza, it seems like UVa as an institution will only be going downhill from here unless the state reverses its treatment of UVa or the school goes private. There’s a growing number of top students in this country (and throughout the world for that matter) and the top 25 or so schools are vying to get the cream of the crop students. By limiting UVa’s financial resources (by contributing so little), the state is hurting UVa as a public institution. And even on top of that, mandating more in-state students to make UVa easier to get into for in-staters (essentially taking weaker students when peer schools are taking increasingly better students), it seems like things aren’t looking too hot from a concerned and interested student’s perspective.</p>
<p>Let’s face it, UVa isn’t exactly some great research powerhouse. A lot of this school’s rep is based on providing a high caliber education and resources to strong undergraduates. Once this goes away, UVa is just another state university. Currently, Cal-Berkeley is increasing their out of state enrollment and Michigan seems to be stepping closer and closer to privatization. Meanwhile, UVa is moving closer to being the next JMU. As a student and future alum of UVa, I hope this doesn’t happen.</p>
<p>Lol@the JMU comment… </p>
<p>But seriously, before we know it, we’re going to be falling behind in rankings against the likes of Michigan and UCLA, who’s already tied with us. I’m so sick of hearing that there needs to be more Virginians at UVA - no! What we need is more international students and global recognition because we are a top university.</p>
<p>Hopefully the new president will take steps to move UVa up as a research university and will be concerned with keeping up the selectivity and traditions.</p>
<p>It seems to me that people are just saying: We don’t need to maintain UVa’s identity and selectivity, let’s just take anyone from Virginia (and no a 4.0 weighted GPA and 1300 aren’t anything to be really proud of) instead of looking to see who will make the most of UVa and will contribute most to this school.</p>
<p>Parents of in-state students who complain that their kids kill themselves to get a 4.0 and 1300 SAT score must be joking. In this day and age neither of those are particularly impressive. There are a huge number of students here who worked hard to get 1450+ SATs and get straight As in all advanced courses. These students didn’t have problems getting in. If a kid can’t get in, it’s not the school’s fault they should have applied themselves more in high school. That’s not just UVa, that’s college admissions in general for top schools.</p>
<p>Barq45, do you really think UVA (or any school for that matter) is admitting students based solely on their achievements? Do you really believe that all of the OOS students or international students are “better” than those from Virginia? To quote Dean J statistically that maybe correct, but it is not a criteria. Many of us in Virginia have also grown tired of OOS students complaining about the education they are getting (partly at the expense of taxpayers in Virginia) at one of our state schools. To quote Dean J again, perhaps one of the fine private schools would be a better choice? I’ve heard they offer great financial aid packages.</p>
<p>“partly at the expense of taxpayers in Virginia”
^^^^
How partly? Do any of these kids contribute anything to the local economy? How about their parents and visitors? This refrain from VA residents is getting old.</p>
<p>So if people from Virginia went to school at UVA they would not spend money while visiting? Quite frankly so far I’m blown away by the lack of anything resembling a coherent defense on why people in Virginia need to subsidize your education. I would expect much better points from students who attend one of the best schools in the country then “I’m tired of people complaining.” How about OOS students are getting a good deal at UVA and don’t want to give it up? That is at least a rational point. “I’m tired of discussing it” is as lame as it gets. I’ll give you another decent argument. A quality school needs a diverse student body and how in the world can you get that if all you do is take students from Virginia? At least that is a relevant point. I’m starting to wonder if your all not right and the school is going down the tubes. If you’re tired then take a nap. If you have something resembling a defense of your position then follow the words of your founder.</p>
<p>“Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.”</p>
<p>The diversity argument doesn’t even hold water. There is plenty of diversity here in Nova. Kids from all over the world. So I don’t see how another white upper middle class kid from another state whose parents can pay the high OOS tuition bill is going to add diversity to UVA.
I take issue with the idea that kids who are not admitted should have worked harder. I know of many brilliant kids (with high GPA, full IB, valedictorian among others) who were not admitted. The reason? Not enough spots, period. So how do they decide who to admit between 2 excellent candidates? Who knows? That’s the admin’s prerogative. They can do what they please. Dean J has been very helpful and we all appreciate it but in the end, it’s still a mystery how they decide.</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant Adcom’s prerogative.</p>
<p>Guillaume, The diversity I’m talking about is much broader than what the US Government calls “diversity”. Most Americans do not realize that people from different parts of the country (although of the same race) bring unique perspectives that you may not have been exposed to in the past. For example, I would guess that someone who is white from Montana probably does not thing the same on every issue as a white student from New York City. They will agree and disagree on different points, but the discussion is where learning takes place. At some point each sees the issue from someone else’s point of view. It is kind of like this discussion we are having now. An OOS student sees someone like me as some whiner from Virginia not someone who is raising a family and is concerned about his tax dollars and if some student from Virginia is getting the short stick. I learned from Dean J that the majority of funding does not come from the state. You don’t need to match a government label to bring a unique perspective to the table. Unfortunately the “perspective” of a student is not measurable with a simple box to check on an application and therefore can’t be turned into a nice power point slide for the Board of Visitors or the (Government) to show how well a school is doing on the diversity initiative.</p>
<p>Lastly do not take offense to the statement about “working harder”. It bothers the students who get into top schools that they may not actually be the “best” candidates and perhaps they got in for some other reason. They and we will never really know will we? So they do what you see here and say stuff like “they had bad SATs, poor grades, not enough ECs”. I on the other hand worked harder. It’s like the thing filthy rich people say to explain why they are rich and you are not. They simply worked harder than you! Dean J has already stated that many well qualified students have been denied for some reason which they will never know. Dean J has repeatedly posted that you can’t let your acceptance into this or that school define who you are as person or for that matter a student. He is right once again; it just was not in the cards.</p>
<p>"How about OOS students are getting a good deal at UVA and don’t want to give it up? :
^^^^^
Great school, not a great deal financially. 3x higher tuition for OOS students.
How much more should UVA charge to compensate for your 8% or whatever it is? Certainly these OOS students are also contributing something to the economy.</p>
<p>Coherent defense of what? UVA not lowering its standards to admit everyone in VA because their residents contribute minimally to the university’s budget? Or is it the whining about how the admissions process isn’t as “transparent” as you’d like? I don’t think either needs to be defended. </p>
<p>BTW - Thanks for your contribution to the OOS students.</p>
<p>On the issue of working hard enough to get into UVa, truth of the matter is UVa is not an easy school to get into, but it’s not super difficult to get into either. While to have a good shot at UVa you need to take as many advanced classes as possible, get good grades, and do relatively well on the SAT, it’s not impossible. That’s because there are so many spots open at UVa (this school has more than 12,000 undergraduates). Basically what I’m saying is that if you’re strong enough of a candidate you will most likely get in. Many of the parents who complain that their kids are at JMU or (insert random school here) had kids who simply weren’t very strong candidates. Regardless of where you live, if you are strong enough you will get in. </p>
<p>Also, if your a parent and you child only has a 4.0 weighted GPA (the grade inflation in NoVA and other places is high with weighted credits), this school may not be the best fit. UVa is a tough academic school where the kids with the very top SAT exam scores and 4.5+ GPAs think the school is hard. Please note this isn’t intended to scare anyone off, but it’s the truth of the matter. And the academic difficulty is what keeps things interesting.</p>
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<p>I dunno, it kinda looks that way (at least in the sciences). Especially at the graduate level. Have you like seen our environmental sciences department? And the e-school research labs? The e-school does quite a lot of theoretical research (surprisingly, since they’re all about the applied sciences). There’s like an entire floor in the MSE building filled with computers dedicated to modelling catalysts, explosions and things like that.</p>
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<p>No private school ever gave me that much financial aid. I don’t know about the immigration statistics, but I think admitting OOS students helps bring talent into Virginia. Oh, and it generates Interstate Commerce. :)</p>