<p>North Carolina schools have to accept by law 80% in state. Is there some research out there showing that it impacts a school like NC Chapel Hill negatively? Just curious.</p>
<p>FYI : for those of you contemplating med school, the three med schools in the state all accept a far greater number of OOS students (33%-45%- UVa being 45%) than nearly all other state schools.</p>
<p>My father knows a moderate GOP state senator who is been in the state Senate for a long time – although hated by the McDonnelites for being a moderate, he still has some influence. He thinks it is very unlikely that there will be mandated OOS ratios for the next biennial – the state doesn’t have the money to fund the resulting shortfalls. Even with stable revenues, the state budget will be slashed even more than in the current year. Federal stimulus payments for next year were spent this year. The state employees’ pension fund is severly underfunded, yet Kaine still managed to slash the current year contribution. Health costs for state employees/retirees continue to outstrip forecasts. There will likely be no state employee raises during the next fiscal year. No funds for transportation and roads. The state unemployment rate will continue to increase until at least next summer and will probably not appreciably recover for a long time. Retraining funds are needed for the long-term unemployed and there are only so many cosmetology/medical assistant slots currently available.</p>
<p>Seriously, the state is probably facing its most severe budget crunch ever with no end yet in sight. With the large number of unemployed, the CCs are most stressed by the current crisis. Consquently, the senator foresees that the CCs will be funded relatively favorably as they increase their enrollment. Thus the 4-year schools will receive a smaller portion of the overall education budget, even if the budget remains unchanged. That means that the 4-years will face certain additional budget cuts and the state is no position at this point to mandate greater IS enrollment and the resulting additional hikes in tuition, which will already be gruesome next yar.</p>
<p>He says there is a big problem that will be revealed in the next two to four years. While most of the CC increase in enrollment will be generated by non-traditional students who will likely not continue their education at an out-of-town school, there will still be a large number of students who meet the guaranteed acceptance criteria. Accordingly, absent an offsetting increase in capacity at UVa, IS high schoolers will face increased competition for a smaller number of slots.</p>
<p>While this senator thinks there is nothing wrong in attending a CC, and feels that it is really the way to go, neurotic moms with money won’t feel that way. That conflict won’t be that serious until about 4 years from now and then he will have retired from the Senate.</p>
<p>The stats posted were from 2008 and were taken off my blog, where I state that they are unofficial. There are more correct and more current numbers available.</p>
<p>[The</a> Office of Institutional Assessment](<a href=“http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/index.shtm]The”>http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/index.shtm) conducts a census each fall and provides us with the official statistics about the student body. It would be best to cute their statistics in your arguments.</p>
<p>“What if the Governor lowers the OOS student percentage to say 20% and spreads the remaining cost shortfall amongst the in state students? Would that not be break even cost wise?”
^^^^^
Of course that would accomplish the same thing. But why stop there? If, as you say:
"“anyone who says that the school could not be filled with top notch students from Virginia is dreaming”
why deny 20% of VA’s finest places in THEIR state university? Who are you (or I or the Governator) to deny a top quality education to these VA students? At what percentage of OOS students does UVA quit becoming a GREAT University and just become another run of the mill state college? </p>
<p>“We may be able to analyze the cost of admitting less OOS students by using simple mathematics but what of the impact on the quality of the education? As I have said before there is a benefit to bringing students of different backgrounds to any school and that would certainly suffer if the number of OOS students declines.”
^^^
I think many (including me) of the posters on this thread agree with the above. I guess my question to you is do you think the current number of OOS students is too many? </p>
<p>“See Agales even a soy bean farmer can acknowledge a fact.”
^^^
I love these “just a lowly soy bean farmer” lines. LoL. I suspect you are much more than that label might imply.</p>
<p>“Thanks for your massive $200 contribution to Virginia. I’m sure it went to excellent use. No “just because my family” has been here 150 years does not rate me special attention. If I was a first generation American or if my parents never went to college, or if I was a minority (by US Government standards or course), or better still an illegal immigrant, then yes I would be entitled to special consideration. Unfortunately I’m none of the above”</p>
<p>This is the epitome of Ronbo’s argument and it oozes with gross, ignorant conservatism.</p>
<p>“If I was a first generation American or if my parents never went to college”</p>
<p>Are you sure? lol</p>
<p>Great retort, Wahoomb. </p>
<p>Wahoomb, how about your use of the term southern politicking as if the political process in the south is some antebellum picture in you very misguided head; I guess that is not ignorance, huh? Now you do it once again throwing the ignorant conservative label. I guess in your mind you feel that anybody who questions authority and where their money goes is some ignorant conservative. My have times have changed Mr (Ms.?) Waghoomb, back when I was growing up that would make me a real wild rebel, maybe even (yikes!) a liberal! </p>
<p>Might I suggest you look at the many excellent points Aglages has made over the last few days to see what a real point is? </p>
<p>Perhaps the 7% the state has contributed to your education has been wasted Wahoomb. One thing for sure is a man like Thomas Jefferson, who I might add did not rock the boat but tipped it over, would certainly be very disappointed. </p>
<p>Well I would like to continue the discussion and Im sure you will reply with another of one of your deep thoughtful insights Wahoomb but I have to run and I think this thread has dried up. Besides, my mint julep is getting warm and TNT is having a marathon of Hee Haw that I just can’t miss. </p>
<p>When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson</p>
<p>First, a lesson on quoting others
Take the comment you want to quote and put the word QUOTE before it inside brackets and after it with brackets and a slash to end the quote. I will use stars instead of the “O” in quote so that this code shows up.</p>
<p>[QU<em>TE]Here is the comment I want to quote[/QU</em>TE]</p>
<p>Removing the stars…
</p>
<p>Now for my comments. I’m not replying to everything because I think many of you have already hit upon good points to some of what has been asked/asserted here. </p>
<p>
I’m not sure I believe this early comment anymore. Perhaps knowing that the students, alumni, and parents commenting here don’t seem to agree with you should be enough to send this thread to the second page.</p>
<p>
Admission officers do not have access to Financial Aid documents. I don’t care if a student will be on aid or not when I read their application. Thankfully, this school does not make our office deal with that. I know of schools where that is the case, where admission must change decisions in light of financial aid’s decisions. We are not that sort of school.</p>
<p>
I think that statement is false, but I have contacted our Alumni Association to verify that with statistical evidence. My sense is that many OOS students fall in love with Virginia while in school here and decide to stay.</p>
<p>
Actually, tuition discounting doesn’t draw money out of the financial aid budget at many schools that practice it. They aren’t giving any aid money when they give merit scholarships. They aren’t charging full tuition to those students. It’s a slight difference, but one that makes a difference.</p>
<p>
My neighbor was the valedictorian of her large, public high school in northern Virginia and she chose JMU over UVa and W&M. She said JMU felt like home and it was the right place for her. Isn’t it refreshing to know that some students really do understand that “fit” concept?</p>
<p>
This is a good point. Our admit rate for Virginia applicants is always in the 40s. We are selective, but far from the most selective schools in the nation. [There</a> are many schools, even outside the Ivy League, with admit rates below 25%](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/704679-20-colleges-lowest-acceptance-rates-class-2013-a.html?highlight=selective]There”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/704679-20-colleges-lowest-acceptance-rates-class-2013-a.html?highlight=selective).</p>
<p>
We really do strive to. We’re not the sort of school where someone tells us to find an oboe player. I experienced that at another school and it was pretty interesting to see the discussions that resulted.</p>
<p>
Because tuition & fees at many LACs is up in the $40k range, which some going over $50,000 this year.</p>
<p>
I think some of you are getting pretty close to a personal attacks. Please don’t resort to these sorts of comments.</p>
<p>Thanks Dean J for the latest information and the feedback on quotes.</p>
<p>I do not want to give the impression I’m hammering you or any of the fine people at UVA with the questions that has been debated on this thread. The question was why do in state parents have concerns with the ratio of in/OOS? I believe I have learned something from the debate (7% state funding) and hopefully calmer heads have learned something about my concerns. This debate is going on in many other states as well given the harsh economic times we live in. I believe UVA (and all of our state schools) are excellent. The fact that we are having the debate in fact speaks for itself since both top notch students in and OOS desire to attend UVA. It is a testimony to the school staff, and students. It speaks for itself. </p>
<p>Thanks again to all the posters (well maybe all) for joining the discussion. I’m sure you are all busy and are concerned enough and passionate enough about UVA to provide your input.</p>
<p>Lastly, I hope all will note that I’m a big fan of Thomas Jefferson and his way of looking at the world. It is amazing how applicable his thoughts are today over two hundred years after he put them to pen, is it not?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Perhaps your daughter should look into the CUNYs, I’m sure your family has also paid 150 years worth of taxes~</p>
<p>If you’re going to lie, at least be consistent. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I actually didn’t say this, it was another UVA student. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>LOL, ok Mr. “if I WAS a first generation American”.</p>
<p>From the Alumni Association:
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>These numbers come from analyzing data we have about alumni from the last five graduating classes from UVa. Clearly, our OOS population is going on to make contributions in the Commonwealth after their four years here.</p>
<p>Ronbo, again, parents arguments that OOS enrollment should be reduced because too many OOS students take away places from equally qualified IS students doesn’t add up. UVa is a pretty large school and, because of this it seems admissions to UVa seems While a lot of easily Ivy caliber students attend UVa, the large number of students UVa has to accept to maintain its size allows many more less elite students to get in. Simply put, it seems that if you have a 3.8+ UW GPA, take a hard course load at your school, score 1400+ on the SAT (old scale), and do a couple of ECs you should get in (say around 80% chance). That’s not super hard by any means.</p>
<p>Bottom line: If your disgruntled about your kid not getting into UVa it’s probably not because the school is discriminating against them, but they didn’t work as hard as many of the students in their target demographic that did get in. </p>
<p>NOTE: These are my observations as a Virginian from a high school with a pretty good reputation it seems with UVa and as a UVa student.</p>
<p>It IS “super hard” to get over a 1400 on the SAT, Barq45, and as I just commented on another thread this is NOT among the tricks that an in state student probably needs to pull out of his or her sleeve to get into UVA. I’d appreciate Dean J’s view on this. Dean J, is it not a fact that there are many, many, many in state students at UVa, including Nova students, who don’t have 1400s on the SATs? In fact, isn’t it true that the MAJORITY of both in state and out of state students do not have these numbers? </p>
<p>It seems that no matter how hard UVa tries it cannot shake the view of so many students and parents that a ridiculously high SAT score is critical to admission.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Simply put, it seems that if you have a 3.8+ UW GPA, take a hard course load at your school, score 1400+ on the SAT (old scale), and do a couple of ECs you should get in (say around 80% chance)
[QUOTE]
Barq, I know of many people who had those stats or better who didn’t get in. there was a poster last year on this board who had been admitted to NC Chapel Hill OOS (they accept only about 20% OOS) but waitlisted at UVA IS. How about those countless kids who are accepted at Ivy leagues but not at UVA IS? So these are the kinds of anomalies that make the system seem mysterious.<br>
I am really tired of hearing people here dismiss some parents’ legitimate concerns as being "disgruntled about your kid not getting into UVa ".<br>
Thanks Dean J for doing some policing on this board. It would be even better if some disparaging comments coming from UVA students or alumni were frowned upon as well.</p>
<p>Lol I forgot to add the slash in my end of quote. better next time.</p>
<p>There are lots of “stories” of phenomenal in state kids getting into ridiculously competitive colleges but not getting into UVa. I’ve heard a few myself. But, in my experience, the overwhelming majority of phenomenal students DO get in, and the ones that don’t have a blemish on the application that the news media doesn’t grasp because it’s not in the business of processing college applications and doesn’t see the other applicants. Besides, “phenomenal student gets into UVA” isn’t as compelling a headline.</p>
<p>Novaparent’s got the right idea. </p>
<p>As for the SAT scores, it’s hard for me to comment because I don’t think in terms of 1600 or 2400. I personally (meaning, this is not UVa policy) look at the individual parts. I will say that having a section score that starts with a 5 or 6 doesn’t automatically send a student to the waitlist.</p>
<p>
Oh, a few of them have stories of me scolding them! One alumni I PMed recently though he was in trouble before he opened my message. </p>
<p>I’m all for passionate discussion. I even appreciate some snarky replies and some gentle teasing at times. i was just worried things were going to take a turn a little earlier.</p>
<p>There are myriad reasons why an applicant might be accepted by an Ivy League school yet be waitlisted or denied by UVa. The first point to keep in mindwhich is pretty obviousis that the applications to two schools are distinct documents. For starters, there are different essays and different numbers of letters of recommendation. It is also possible than an applicant took UVa for granted while putting his all into the Ivy League application. It would be one thing if the different committees were looking at the same application, but they are not. </p>
<p>Different schools may be looking at different things. Some schools take the SAT writing test into account, while others do not. Some schools do not count freshman grades while others do. Schools differ with regard to their SAT II policies, etc. </p>
<p>A school may have a history with a particular Ivy League school that gives the applicant an advantage. The student might get a boost because of legacy status or athletic ability. For example, the student might be good enough to play Ivy League football but not be good enough to play for UVa. There are numerous such scenarios. </p>
<p>And, yes, there is some randomness in the process. A file could be read when the admissions officer is sick or tired, and this could make a difference for someone who is on the bubble. Having said that, I am not in the least concerned that some applicants are accepted by an Ivy League school yet are waitlisted or denied by UVa. If UVa never made such a mistake, that would mean that admissions standards at UVa were very low.</p>
<p>I think sometimes that the whole process is over analyzed. I refuse to use Naviance as a tool to “figure” out if our daughter will be admitted to x, y, or z school. What you see on Naviance are two pieces to the puzzle and thank goodness, not just what an admissions office will see. Each application is a lot of little pieces and I assume when they are reviewed they look for the perfect fit to make the picture complete.</p>