<p>However, even when recovering alcoholics are fully sober, they can have the behaviors of a “dry drunk.” Further, those who are verbal abusers and controlling men do not stop being abusive when they are no longer drinking. I have read a great deal on this subject.</p>
<p>With respect to someone being a “dry drunk”, no professional in the addiction field would consider such a person in recovery. They are on their way to relapse, and while it is a state which can possibly be “white-knuckled” for some time, it is not recovery.</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily agree with that, though am no expert in the addition field. An alcoholic may be sober and have never had one drink in 20 years and still have behaviors of a “dry drunk.” By the way, I am not just talking about abstaining from drinking, but could be attending AA for decades. The person is in recovery but still can display behaviors of anger, etc.</p>
<p>But alcoholism aside, abusive and controlling men do not stop being abusive even when not drinking.</p>
<p>Spideygirl- thank you for making the distinction between mental illness and brain disease. I was not aware of the terminology difference. </p>
<p>It would seem to me that abusive and controlling behavior can be part of an addicted person’s disease. Not to say that all addicts are abusive and controlling, but that the abusive behavior could be a symptom or evidence of substance abuse. Likewise, someone could be abusive and controlling but not abuse alcohol or drugs. It does seem that addiction is related, however, to control issues- either abusive or submissive. I am no expert on this by any means- all of my experience with it is anecdotal.</p>
<p>Also- I have heard the term dry drunk- but what does it really mean?</p>
<p>“THEY ARE NOT BAD PEOPLE. They are sick people. Most domestic violence and crime involves alcohol or drug use.”</p>
<p>No, if you repeatedly beat your wife in front of your kids, you are a bad person. There are millions of addicts who don’t commit that kind of evil act. If these abusers are not bad people, then IMHO there is no such thing as a bad person.</p>
<p>I would make an exception for psychotic people who truly don’t know what they are doing. If the reality you perceive is that your wife is an alien and invading your thoughts, you aren’t culpable for your actions. But addiction is a different story. Addiction to a drug causes use of the drug; it does not, itself, cause violence.</p>
<p>Addiction is a psychiatric diagnosis, just like depression or anorexia. I have not heard “brain disease” used as a term of art among psychiatrists as distinguished from “mental illness.” Schizophrenia is both a brain disease and a mental illness.</p>
<p>If your daughter came home in tears because a Mean Girl shoved her against the lockers and called her names, would you jump to the conclusion that said Mean Girl is mentally ill? Would you have compassion for her assaulting your daughter, or would you be mad as hell? </p>
<p>I don’t think this man is mentally ill at all. I think he’s just an a**hole who gets away with crap because he’s famous, good looking, and rich.</p>
<p>I hesitate to declare anyone a “bad person”. I can surely condemn the behaviors but I’m not going to condemn the person as an individual. In the case of a psychotic, it is obvious that the person doesn’t know what they are doing-ie. thinking their wife is a space alien. In the case of a person with other, less severe mental disease, it is a lot harder to distinguish where their culpability starts and ends. </p>
<p>I also believe in something called redemption- a person who has done terrible things can make a change and come around to doing good. It takes a lot of work on their part, and usually a lot of professional help. So- in the Mel story, I hope that he at some point in his life will make the necessary changes to do good. The evil that he has done, however, has far reaching consequences for himself and the others he has harmed.</p>
<p>I agree that Mel has probably gotten away with a lot because of his looks, talent and money. (As, by the way, did OJ). </p>
<p>No, I wouldn’t call the mean girl in the example mentally ill. Nor would I call her a bad person. I would condemn the act, but not the person.</p>
<p>I don’t condemn the person either. But the behaviors of an abuser or controller can be terrible (and his certainly are in these recordings) and affect those who are in relationships with that person. It is not like their problems just affect themselves. Listening to just two of those tapes makes me feel badly for Oksana for enduring that.</p>
<p>Soozievt- I agree. I feel very bad for Oksana and for her older son, whom she indicates in one of the tapes has an f’d up relationship with Mel. </p>
<p>Having compassion for the abuser who is ill in no way lessens the compassion for the victim.</p>
<p>And if it can be proven that he knocked her teeth out and , as I heard somewhere, also injured his baby when he hit Oksana, then he needs prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.</p>
<p>I simply think Mel Gibson needs to be accountable for his “bad” behaviors/actions. If he is indeed an alcoholic then this current crisis he is in may be the consequence that provides the motivation for Mel Gibson to seek the care he needs. In my view the first part of that process would be clearly identifying what his issues/illnesses are and are not, which I do believe is likely alcohol dependency. He would need to accept that he has an addiction, and then commit to recovery. As far as the abusive behavior, I agree with others, it can exist outside of any addiction. When he blamed his racist, antisemitic rantings on being drunk, many recognized that was a ridiculous excuse.</p>
<p>There are many people who are verbal abusers and controlling who do not drink. Perhaps this public stuff will bring attention to the issue of verbal abuse in relationships because it is often behind closed doors and people are victimized even if it hasn’t escalated to physical violence. Also, domestic violence (such as if he truly did knock her teeth out) typically starts with verbal abuse.</p>
<p>From an article in TIME.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Read more: [url=<a href=“http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2004073,00.html#ixzz0ts28QRv8y]Mel”>http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2004073,00.html#ixzz0ts28QRv8y]Mel</a> Gibson’s Rants: What the Therapists Think - TIME<a href=“I%20admit%20I%20did%20not%20listen%20to%20the%20tape%20&%20I%20am%20not%20going%20to,%20I%20don’t%20see%20the%20point”>/url</a></p>
<p>I can relate to the above- one of our recurring arguments( more infrequent now) is that " I don’t appreciate" H enough. But IMO, I don’t communicate it, in a way he can hear, which isn’t necessarily in English apparently.</p>
<p>But seriously, make his life more comfortable? These men don’t want a wife/partner , they want a combo mommy/mistress.</p>
<p>emeraldkity4: There was an existing thread on this topic and so your new thread was merged with this one.</p>
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<p>EK4,
On the tape I listened to, Gibson says all he wants is a maid (to make his bed, which he complained Oksana didn’t do) and someone to care for his daughter. A wife/partner to have a relationship with? Nah.</p>
<p>(and he did complain that he did not get a BJ on demand because she fell asleep!)</p>
<p>Some explanation as to the sequence of events in their case…</p>
<p>[Mel</a> Gibson and Oksana Grigorieva: Why Their Custody Battle Went Nuclear - Mel Gibson, Oksana Grigorieva : People.com](<a href=“http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20402847,00.html]Mel”>http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20402847,00.html)</p>
<p>Hmmmmmmmm.</p>
<p>^^^^You don’t say!!! :D</p>
<p>yeah, he’s an unstable jack***…</p>
<p>Sure sounds crazy. Maybe he has IED (Intermittent Explosive Disorder)? Someone can act quite normal/charming most of the time, but explode in a crazy tirade for little reason. Sometimes alcohol/drugs are a trigger.</p>
<p>No sympathy for Mel. He sounds abusive and gross. She’s probably a gold-digger and maybe everything else he called her, too. But there are kids involved. He needs to clean up his act.</p>