Hi! I’m super excited to have been admitted to both Notre Dame’s Mendoza School of Business and UPenn’s Wharton School and would love some insight into which school could be better. Right now I’m looking at law school after undergrad, but it’s subject to change, I’m not married to it but it’s a factor.
These are all my thoughts on the schools jotted down, so you can get a piece of my mind on where I’m at. Please enlighten me if you think I’m wrong about anything!
I feel like Notre Dame might be a better fit overall (I’ve visited twice, the sports scene seems very enticing, and the campus culture seems unrivaled; I have not visited UPenn yet). However, I value prestige a lot and I recognize that UPenn and Wharton would open a lot of doors for me. ND is costing me $15k, and I haven’t received aid from UPenn but I’d guess it’d be very comparable if not slightly better.
UPenn has opportunities all around the campus, while ND’s location is not optimal; UPenn I’d meet people who would benefit me professionally, ND I’d meet people who would help me grow as a person. Alumni networks are amazing for both schools but obviously Wharton is the best of the best. I also feel like the competitive culture at Penn would help me grow, but I’m afraid of being average at Penn vs. excelling at ND.
If anyone has any experience with either school that could help offer insight, that’d be amazing. I’m super fortunate to even have to make this decision and I’m beyond grateful for the opportunities I’ve been blessed with.
There is no denying that Wharton is a school everyone has heard of. It’s name is renowned. I’m not normally into names but this is one.
Everyone knows Notre Dame but not everyone knows Mendoza - does that matter - I don’t know.
If you’re going to law school - I don’t think it matters which of these two or any other. But as you’re not wedded to law school (which has a significant cost, without the level of aid like you’ll see undergrad), then you need to save money.
Notre Dame - bigger time sports - yes
You will find summer internships from Notre Dame - and current day research. Most don’t do during the school year internships - so I wouldn’t let location be a factor in that sense - but yes, Penn is a lot grittier of a location - so it might factor in that sense if urbanization bothers you.
You can’t go wrong - but the Penn opportunity and it doesn’t mean it’s right for you, it’s a name that could open up doors for a lifetime. UND too - but to a lesser extent (more the school name).
Here are career outcomes for each - not sure the discipline you’d study or ultimate goal. The UND one is 2023 and there is a tab for salaries.
Read this twice now and it reads like someone who has made their decision. Doesn’t feel like you really want to be talked out of Penn (not much ammunition in your summary provided to do so in any case), so I am not sure what would be helpful. Maybe you can help.
I will offer this: A lot of posts here about XYZ school “Opening doors” for students. Being old(er) and not so enamored with “Prestige” I’d counsel you to think more about the place that will help you identify which door you want to enter. You can only walk through one at a time.
By the way, not everybody would co-sign for that “Best of the Best” stuff.
I find this a bit hard to process because you are looking at undergrad business programs but talking about law schools. You didn’t really explain much about why you even want to do an undergrad business program, although fortunately at either place it would be easy enough to switch to something else if it wasn’t working for you.
That said, I was also not clear why you said ND would be a better fit overall. I have a fairly well-informed sense of when I would actually think ND was a better fit for a kid. Without trying to lead the witness, so to speak, you did not mention what I would see as the prime reason to think that way. Sure, it does have fun sports, but that’s not really what particularly distinguishes ND in my mind.
So I guess I would see Penn, the whole undergrad together, as a better bet, given what you wrote. And if you are not finding the culture and academics at Wharton specifically to your liking, you can switch over to my actual personal favorite part of Penn, Arts & Sciences. But if you ended up loving Wharton, you could stay there.
Were you admitted to Ben Franklin scholars at Penn? (If you not you could inquire)
If you’re not sure - It’s a bit of an honors liberal arts program and would match some of the intellectual/personal “growth” you mentioned as something you like at ND.
Wrt sports you could become a fan of Philly pro teams but obviously it’s not quite the same as the legend of ND football. Only you can decide whether that’s sufficiently important to you to turn down Wharton.
I’m not sure why everyone is saying UPenn fits better -
OP hasn’t visited
and
This is the kind of silly things people say that don’t necessarily have a shred of evidence to support them - it’s all made up from preconceived notions.
UPenn I’d meet people who would benefit me professionally
ND I’d meet people who would help me grow as a person.
Also, the fear of being average at Penn (from what I’ve heard not necessarily rigorous) and excelling at ND - hmmmmm - how would one know this. Don’t conflate rep with rigor.
I’m not saying Wharton isn’t right and I noted the name recognition- but when I read silly statements like that above - one will help with jobs while the other will help with improving me - and one school will be harder than the other…….hmmmmmm…..no one has any idea.
I see why OP would choose Notre Dame from what they wrote but I don’t see why they would choose Wharton. If they visited and felt a comfort, then I would. But for the reasons they listed - hmmmm - they don’t pass the smell test in my opinion.
These are both excellent universities. Start looking at the soft characteristics. Do you want to live in a major metro area for the next four years, or in a less populated area of Indiana.
ND grads have terrific post grad outcomes as do Penn grads.
You have to figure out where you want to be for the next four years.
Not enough information on which to base a recommendation.
If you want to major in accounting, then Notre Dame would be an outstanding choice; if you want to major in finance, then Wharton would be an outstanding choice.
I think for this group of well-informed strangers to be helpful for you, you’re missing one key piece of information - what you think of UPenn/Wharton after you actually visit - and we’re missing one key piece of information - why do you want to go to a business-focused undergrad school. (Maybe you’re missing that part too!)
Most of us here place a lesser value on prestige than you might, which is fine. That said, if you’re interested in almost any area of the business world and want to have opportunities at an international level, the recognized difference between Penn/Wharton and ND/Mendoza is quite vast. Mendoza is certainly very well-respected in the midwest and has a strong alumni network (as does ND); Wharton is a global brand and (no matter your GPA, frankly) doors will open for you. On a macro level, they aren’t comparable.
Zero doubt that the dominant culture at Wharton is pre-professional and competitive: you can certainly bypass these and do your own thing if you wish. I can’t speak to Mendoza. But I wouldn’t make any assumptions about where you will excel v be average - just like both schools accepted you and you have a thoughtful choice to make, so will a bunch of your peers.
That said, if these are both just precursors to a career in law - go wherever you’re most excited about.
(Also, Penn should have provided your financial aid package already, I think? That’s pretty strange but I could be wrong.)
Visit Penn and see what you think. Most importantly you want to be happy over the next four years.
For full disclosure I went to Wharton undergrad and H went to ND and later Wharton grad. They are both fabulous schools but both of us would opt for Wharton.
ND is a unique and wonderful college. However, Wharton is pretty much unparalleled for undergrad business and Penn also offers a great (although different) college experience.
I know how hard it is to make a final choice when both options are good, and each has pros and “slight” cons. Agree with those telling you to select the one that you feel will make you happier. I am failing with this advice for my son as we speak, but I hope it works better for you.
I have a child who graduated from ND (chose it over Cornell) and a daughter at Penn, both are fine schools, but very different. My son chose ND because he wanted the experience ND offered with the football culture, the dorm system at ND (you’re assigned and live in the same dorm for 3, or even 4 years - almost ends up feeling like a fraternity), and the overall friendly culture. My daughter who attends Penn loves it, but she likes the city campus. She does comment that the kids at Penn are “grinders” and it’s often hard to find other students who have other fun interests outside of school. My son’s friends who went to Mendoza all did very well. Although Wharton is very well known, I would consider the whole experience you desire, not just the education.
My thoughts exactly with the name aspect. I can’t help but weight the “prestige” aspect very highly.
I agree saving money should be a big aspect and I’m hoping Penn pulls through. I also know a Penn degree is a golden ticket to a law school, so that’s a plus; ND is a big helper too.
I don’t know how I feel about an urban campus. I’ve always liked the city but living in it is a different thing (I’m from the suburbs) and Notre Dame’s campus is the most beautiful that I’ve toured, but being in South Bend isn’t super ideal. I toured UChicago (which I think is somewhat similar to Penn, in my head at least) and it was good but not Notre Dame.
Thanks for the career outcomes, that’s super helpful!
Don’t want run down a rabbit hole but I’ll just tell you it’s fine but so are hundreds of others. Over 200 schools are represented at Penns Law School. Well over 200 at Gtown’s Law School first year class and 163 at Harvard’s first year class of less than 600. You have Towson, U of you name the flagship (yes non selective), Christopher Newport, Marshall, Ohio U, Stetson and tons of colleges represented at top law schools. You could go anywhere and get into a top law school is the reality - so not a reason to choose either of these vs the other. Get great grades and a great LSAT and today some sort of after college experience (work) and that will be your ticket to a great legal education somewhere great.
Here’s the issue with Wharton is the golden ticket and I don’t think anywhere is although it’s on that part of you deliver - you have one life. 70,80, years. College is four years. You want to be happy right. Not happy doesn’t do as well and why waste four years of your life as not happy.
I don’t disagree with the value of the name vs Mendoza as I noted but given you are gonna be there four years, visit and ensure it’s right for you. A reputation is not worth four years of discomfort or unhappiness. That’s my opinion - others are ok struggling through for a name. Go visit and see - hopefully you’ll love it or not to help make your decision easier.
There are no golden tickets available. If you get very good grades and a high LSAT score from colleges like either of these, then you will be competitive for highly selective law schools. If your numbers fall significantly below their typical standards, the name on your sweatshirt is unlikely to save you.
I do think sometimes some law schools might go a bit deeper into some classes than others, which might give you a bit more margin for error, including if things don’t work out with your initial curriculum plan.
But that margin for error isn’t going to be unlimited, just maybe a bit more generous sometimes. Maybe.
A Penn degree is absolutely not a ticket to law school. Please disabuse yourself of this notion.
A Penn degree is a Penn degree and that’s all it is. You gotta earn your own spot to Law, Business, Med School, or anything else you do after. Nobody’s taking you because you went to Penn.
I am curious as to the origin of this thought. I have never encountered this before today. To the best of my many decades of knowledge in this area, your assertion is incorrect.
The only exception that I can think of is that some elite law schools might give a bit of extra consideration to an applicant with a slightly below median GPA who earned a degree in a very difficult area such as engineering. However, this type of exception would be uncommon. And that individual would most likely need an LSAT score at or above the 75th% for that particular law school.
