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<p>And aren’t the Mavericks’ Dancers there to provide sex appeal? Or to appeal to all of the male fans of the art of dance? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>To me, pointing to professional football cheerleaders is like pointing to the Crusades when someone complains about radical Islam. Two wrongs does not make a right.</p>
<p>And I’m not “shocked” by Miley either. I’m disgusted, and sad for her.</p>
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<p>No, even in Texas, we were capable of discerning that Mick Jagger brought an intense air of sexuality to his performances. One Texan in particular, Jerry Hall, found his unique brand of “sexy” to be particularly compelling.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s a guy thing. :D</p>
<p>What occurred to me is that people are only up in arms about this because Miley is famous, and because she was famous when she was younger. There are countless backup dancers on these shows–probably as young or younger–and in videos behaving the same way, or worse. But they are like wallpaper to us, and we weren’t aware of them as younger kids.</p>
<p>If I feel sad for her, because she was a child star and exploited by the adults in her life, I am certainly not going to feel disgusted if I think her on stage behavior is less than acceptable. I didn’t have a problem with the performance within the context of what happens every year at the VMAs and what most people (including women my age) seem to find appropriate dance routines for high school and college women across the country. </p>
<p>crossposted: Hunt - Yes</p>
<p>Could be Hunt. I don’t know. </p>
<p>When I watch Madonna or gaga, I feel they know EXACTLY what they are doing. They are in on it. They are in charge of it. </p>
<p>When I watch Miley Cyrus, which I avoid, I feel she doesn’t have a creative understanding or control of the message. It’s a big difference to me</p>
<p>toddlers and tiaras</p>
<p>Those babies have no idea what they are doing. We still watch. The controversy sells.</p>
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<p>Do “most people” really feel simulated masturbation is appropriate for high school dance routines? Maybe in certain circles, but this routine she did actually got a pretty visceral reaction from many young people as well as all the old fogeys, so I’m not so sure I’m buying that old standard refrain, the “everybody’s doing it”.</p>
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<p>Yes, they are both pretty calculated in all of their actions. Gaga in particular seemed to need to be outrageous to get noticed in the beginning, vs. already being pretty large in the public consciousness.</p>
<p>I don’t know if MC is being manipulated, or is simply rebelling against her “wholesome” image as most child stars who grow up end up doing when they sense that the public isn’t going to let go of that persona.</p>
<p>40 years ago my mother tried to persuade me to wear a padded bra because I wasn’t as “bouncy” as my best friend when we shook our tops and bottoms at the audience. I find simulated masturbation less disturbing than all the shaking. It does seem to indicate some measure of control by the dancer, taking back some of the power from a male audience. ymmv</p>
<p>Lady Gaga was 22 when she first became famous. Miley Cyrus is 20 now. (if my math is right)</p>
<p>I have a problem with “we” statements. I don’t watch Toddlers and Tiaras. (Or the Kardashians, for that matter.) Although I loved Beyonce’s Single Ladies video, I was appalled that some people thought it was an appropriate routine for a dance team of 9 yr olds or younger. Not only are backup dancers not like wallpaper to me, but in the parts of the performance I’ve seen, the backup dancers were not doing what she was doing. Especially not slapping her on the ass as if she were a horse or a dog. </p>
<p>There is a difference between Bob Fosse and simulated masturbation with a foam finger.</p>
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<p>My god.</p>
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<p>Yeah, it could be an individual hangup. I don’t like to watch people masturbate. It’s not that I think it is an intrinsically bad thing, I just prefer for people to keep it a private thing, like a lot of other perfectly normal activities which don’t necessarily need to be shared with others in public. I was walking through the Metro in Paris once when I was 23 and a man came out of the shadows masturbating. I didn’t like it.</p>
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<p>Who is “we?” You got a mouse in your pocket? </p>
<p>My husband always says that to me when I make “we” statements. :)</p>
<p>I think the visceral reaction to Cyrus is how embarrassed we are for her. “Oh no! Don’t DO that!” And this comes from our understanding that she does not have control of this. </p>
<p>With gaga sometimes I think, “yuck. A meat suit”. But. I also know she is saying something to me.</p>
<p>Hunt. Gaga formed her adolescent self the way anyone does. She studied performance art at NYU. And now she is expressing herself. Miley not so much.</p>
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“Give me your money.”</p>
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<p>You know, maybe we should be grateful. The almost universal feeling - even among young folks - is that she was vulgar/stupid/embarrassing. I bet that there were very very few teen girls who watched Miley’s performance at the VMAs and thought “I want to be just like her.” On the other hand, if her performance/costume/attitude had actually been drop dead sexy, there may be more teen girls trying to emulate her.</p>
<p>Sort of, hunt. But she is trying to say something else as well. Whether or not we think its relevant may vary. But it’s there.</p>
<p>“we” :)</p>
<p>we obviously all watched this Miley performance.
Someone watches Toddler and Tiaras. Someone watches dancers at high school and college events. Someone watches dancers at professional events. </p>
<p>It is a continuum imho. Why is Miley such a controversy in context of what *we<a href=“as%20a%20society”>/i</a> allow and tacitly approve.</p>