Misogyny

Parent Cafe
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<p>I want to separate this from the discussion of the tragedy at Isla Vista. </p>

<p>I really like this opinion piece. I think it would be an excellent to have it as required reading for incoming college students, especially men. </p>

<p><a href=“Your Princess Is in Another Castle, Nerds and Misogyny”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Here is another opinion piece on this topic which I think is worthwhile. </p>

<p><a href=“#YesAllWomen reveals the constant barrage of sexism that women face | Jessica Valenti | The Guardian”>http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/28/yesallwomen-barage-sexism-elliot-rodger&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>(Disclosure: I knew Jessica when she was younger, though not well. Her dad was one of the adults who ran one of the neighborhood activities my D participated in. ) </p>

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<p>I do think that behavior is getting less tolerated in some areas.

<a href=“http://www.gamer-xp.com/eclipse-phase-creators-fire-mra-fans/”>http://www.gamer-xp.com/eclipse-phase-creators-fire-mra-fans/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>Well, I didn’t make it through the first article–I love BBT and obviously the guy hasn’t seen it.
The nerdy guys do get girls in that show–by being good guys to begin with.
And to call “misogeny” as the norm by Jessica? Really, she needs a new group of male friends–she must hang with total losers on a regular basis. Normal, nice guys just don’t land in the news.</p>

4

<p>“Equality for all people, regardless of sex, is a worthy goal.”. That I agree with totally.
I have a son that any woman would be proud to have as a husband and I’m pretty sure it’s because his dad is the best role model I know. Maybe society just needs a whole slew of good role models (both men and women).</p>

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<p>I think male privilege is largely exaggerated. </p>

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<p>Im not so concerned about real or perceived male privilege, I am concerned about the attitude that females are less than. </p>

<p>A society where the superintendent of a school district destroys evidence relating to the gang rape of a student ( female) by other (male) students?
Not OK.
Why would he even * consider* doing that?</p>

7

<p>@emeraldkity4, where I live, superintendents wield enormous power over faculty, staff, and students, but must kowtow to the school board members who hired them, and to the voters who elected the school board.</p>

<p>My daughter (a graduating senior) recently had a run-in with her superintendent over women’s issues (I’m withholding details here to protect her identity). He was initially supportive, but two days later did a complete 180. I can only imagine that he spoke with a board member in the interim.</p>

<p>This is not an excuse. It simply suggests that male privilege emanates from a much larger source.</p>

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<p>I’ve only read the first part so far, but really like it. I’m not crazy about the last sentence that ER just needed to grow up. He had a twisted cultural narrative AND mental illness of some kind. I, too, have known the harassing stalker nerds and I’m glad that he called out that “hot girl must have bullied him” them that I have been hearing.</p>

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<p>Another very good piece on this topic: <a href=“#YesAllWomen in the wake of Elliot Rodger: Why it’s so hard for men to recognize misogyny.”>http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/05/_yesallwomen_in_the_wake_of_elliot_rodger_why_it_s_so_hard_for_men_to_recognize.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Here is Lord Byron:</p>

<p>He was a Turk, the colour of mahogany;
And Laura saw him, and at first was glad,
Because the Turks so much admire phylogyny,
Although their usage of their wives is sad;
'Tis said they use no better than a dog any
Poor woman, whom they purchase like a pad;
They have a number, though the ne’er exhibit 'em,
Four wives by law, and concubines: ad libitum.</p>

<p>To be serious, when I see what happens to women in non-Western cultures, I realize we’ve come a long way. In the last 2 days, I’ve seen images of a woman stoned to death in Pakistan for marrying an unapproved man and 2 young girls hung in a tree after being raped. </p>

<p>But the casual sexism here is awful.</p>

11

<p>First article is interesting, but it would have us believe the UCSB killings that started with 3 men then 2 women were because the perpetrator believed he was entitled to “hot girls”. Maybe I’m a hard sell on that one, but I believe it was due to his mental illness that went too long unchecked. I don’t believe he started off killing 3 men and 2 women because he hates physically attractive women; I think he killed because of mental illness.</p>

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<p>He was most likely mentally ill, but he did not pull the concept that he was entitled to sex with “hot” women out of thin air. </p>

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</a></p>

<p>True though I am concerned the article will be perceived by too many readers as a problem limited solely to male nerds. </p>

<p>Especially considering some of the worst manifestations of this entitlement I’ve heard about and seen were in non-nerds like subsets of athletes, fraternity members, and NYC area ibankers/lawyers who are so well known for this that even fellow NYC area ibankers/lawyers have called them out and made fun of their bitter “I haves the cash, high-end car, and expensive pad…why is it no woman wants to go out with me. Wahh life’s not fair” type rantings IRL in bars and online. </p>

14

<p>Perhaps we should blame his actions on Charles Grodin and Cybill Shepard? Or perhaps Robert Williams and Jean Harlow?
Hey, I’d like to have sex with hot women. I’d like to be taller. I’d like to be younger. But I darn sure don’t intend to kill men and women because of that.</p>

15

<p>younghoss, perhaps. We are talking about two issues here: mental illness that makes a person think that killing is an acceptable form of dealing with perceived “mistreatment”, and the issue of misogyny that steered said person towards thinking that not “having sex with hot girls” was somehow something every guy was entitled to and therefore had been badly mistreated.</p>

<p>Both of these problems are real.</p>

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<p>I completely agree that there are massive, massive problems in the US* between the genders, the substantial majority of which consists of men abusing or discriminating against women. I do not think that you can really draw anything from the California case, however, simply because of the mental illness. I completely agree that this discussion needs to be held, but I do not see any good that can come from basing that discussion around the rambling rants of a genuine lunatic.</p>

<p>*: I speak only of the US simply to confine my statement to a region with which I am personally familiar.</p>

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<p>the articles are “nice” but Hollywood (and Disney) start them off really young… males can “get” or “win” a female by accomplishing or completing certain tasks.</p>

<p>This message is everywhere. EVERYWHERE.</p>

<p>Is the media willing to accept that it is playing a role in shaping American society? Mostly I see the media blaming everyone else for the problems.</p>

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<p>ahh- you must have liked my previous comment about who to blame, soccerguy?</p>

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<p>The Lady or the Tiger: well, OF COURSE the lady would absolutely love to be your prize, even though she has never even seen you before. Innumerable fairy tales: if you accomplish these three tasks, the king with reward you with a third of his kingdom AND his daughter. And so on. There are probably deeper, more nuanced anthropological or Jungian explanations of this, but clearly it is a profound theme. (Helen of Troy: the prize whose fate men had arranged amongst themselves then rebelled and selected her OWN mate, and what ensued? A cataclysmic conflict. Of course, the narrative is often that Paris, a <em>man</em>, set it off by breaking the arrangement among the men…) It is a fascinating theme to consider.</p>

<p>As for Disney princesses, the thing that gets me there are the missing mothers.</p>

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<p>The killer was mentally ill and could pull anything out the air and out of anything. As can a lot of people. My mother in law loved to quote what a kook at a gas station randomly said to her because she agreed with it and wished it were so. People told her the opposite, knowledgeable folks who cared and knew, and she ignored that advice over a 10 second remark, if that. So it is in life. </p>

<p>The guy was also a gamer like Lanza was, and that has long been blamed for violence, the type of games one can spend hours playing these days. I’m sure the nerd shows were not the only things he watched either, and I doubt those (I don’t watch them, so I don’t know for sure) have the nerds going out blowing away those who rejected them like he did, if that is what he did.</p>

<p>I truly believe and fear that things are getting more and more difficult for people, especially those with mental, emotional, behaviorial issues. Our society is becoming less personal overall and it’s a tough go for many who could use community support.</p>

<p>There is a blog I used to read where a woman does have a mentally handicapped brother and the young man does quite well in his adventures as he lives in an area where he is known, and they make allowances for him. If he lived here, he’d be in the police station within hours or lost on the streets, likely stripped of anything of value. I’ve mentioned that my DH comes from an area where things are a lot slower, more tolerant in some ways to those who don’t quite meet some societal marks. There are crazies with guns out there, plenty of them, always have been, but they don’t shoot up schools and people in public, just each other, maybe. But they don’t have the types of weapons that cause so much sure damage in such a short period of time too, and they have people kind of watching out for them. </p>

<p>I also know of some not so mentally well folks in the student ghettos of some very well known colleges. They’ve been around for years, but I wonder how they are taking the changes. My school was surrounded with a down on its heels neighborhood with some dirty, seedy places we hung around with little money and low standards. These days, things are getting upscales, and a lot of the old regulars would not fit in place as they did. </p>