Mississippi may change state flag...

… to remove the Confederate battle flag. The resolution passed a procedural vote that required 2/3 in both houses of the state legislature.

https://mississippitoday.org/2020/06/27/historic-moment-lawmakers-clear-difficult-hurdle-to-consider-bill-that-would-remove-the-mississippi-state-flag/

Mississippi is currently the only state with a Confederate battle flag in its state flag, but Georgia’s state flag closely resembles the lesser known Confederate first national flag.

I think that it is about time.

I never understood why anyone would fly a confederate flag or why any state flag would include it.

Crossing my fingers that no one here wants to argue that the confederate flag should remain.

I never really paid attention to the details of the confederate flag, being from the Midwest. During the kids spring break about 15 years ago to Siesta Key, I stopped in one of those huge tourist mega stores in Sarasota and they had their huge beach towels on display overhead. Stupid me thought the one I bought was the Union Jack or a variation of it or something.

I bought it and back at home went to our neighborhood pool. I laid it out on the chaise lounge and in horror my husband asks what did I have and what was I doing. I just looked at him with a “what are you talking about” look on my face. I guess I had bought the confederate flag. I hurriedly rolled it up and disposed of it.

That really is disgusting it’s on the State Flag. I hope Georgia follows suite.

@conmama, oops. :smiley:

Good. Who cares. The war is over. The secessionists lost and we carry on. Especially if it makes millions of our citizens unhappy. Make it all red background or whatever and let’s move on.

It’s not foundational.

I wonder what kind of response the citizens of Mississippi are having or will have to this. As much as it seems a no brainer to me, it may be much more of a dividing issue there.

I only know one Mississippian, a young woman in her 20s who I met through my son, and she is thrilled according to her several instagram stories and posts about it. :slight_smile:

I also hope Mississippi and Georgia remove these symbols of division that cause so much pain to the fabric of our country. But the deep underlying problem was exemplified by another poster. How can these symbols that cause extreme duress and pain to millions of American citizens today and represent perhaps one of the darkest times in our country’s history not be known by all Americans?

The Confederate battle flags (the ones with the X pattern) are pretty well known, since they are commonly depicted in historical context. The Confederate national flags (particularly the first one) are much less commonly recognized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America shows what the various Confederate flags looked like.

The current Mississippi state flag dates from 1894; other historical flags and proposals can be seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi . It also notes that there is opposition to the current flag from the SEC, NCAA, Mississippi Baptist Convention, and Walmart.

The Georgia state flag and its history can be seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state) .

Thanks uc. This historical info is informative. I think most people (like myself) are not aware of the nuances and variations of the confederate flag. However the flag showing the criss-cross lines seems to be the flag that most people can identify with as being representative of division.

I remain puzzled as to why there is even a debate as to the removal of this symbol which obviously represents a historical and a current source of pain for so many.

My question is not meant to be flippant as much as I am truly curious as to why there is such fervent debate as to this symbol’s removal.

The Mississippi flag will look like the flag of the Netherlands upside down. :slight_smile:

Okay, well I just read a tweet by Faith Hill (Mississippi girl) advocating for changing the flag and boy did she get some nasty responses. So this is going to be a hotly debated topic.

Nrd, the response to faith hill is telling. There are some people to have no problems using the importance or significance of “history” as a basis to continue to cause pain to millions of Americans. “History” and social pain seem to be separate issues.

It is and will continue to be a hotly contested debate for sure. The very fact that this debate will be hotly contested probably exemplifies how little (or least how slow) progress has been made to these types of issues.

Maybe the country coming to grips with a terrible past and then making real amends is the first step that is taking place at this time in history. Without the realization of the past and a resolution, things like this will continue to fester until it boils over again and again.

It’s terribly sad to see.

My guess? Tradition

It’s very, very tough for some people to let go of things simply, “because that’s the way it’s always been.”

It doesn’t have to be a flag. It can be anything as simple as, “that’s the way I’ve always put my clothes on or cooked broccoli or parked my car,” or, “that’s the way school/church/gov’t has always been” or whatever.

Change is just plain “wrong” as the default.

Evolutionarily speaking (or natural selection wise speaking), keeping things the same as has worked before is usually safer than trying something new, so it’s a common human response. Then any sort of reason needed is thought of to support tradition. Any other reason proposed is scoffed at.

I think it’s deeper than that. Pride in southern (or Texan) roots go deep. My ancestor brought more immigrants to Texas than anyone other than Stephen F. Austin. I had several relatives who fought for the Confederacy. I know it’s hard to understand, but people still take pride in their ancestry. The other part of it is that some southerners and Texans still feel a lot of anger about Reconstruction. “Damn Yankees” is not a phrase without meaning down there. I was shocked when I moved to Maine and saw “Yankee Ford” and “Yankee Bowling Lanes” - yikes, not good connotations. When my husband’s graduate school friends realized he and I were getting serious, they said to him, “Are you nuts? You’re a Yankee and you’re dating your professor’s daughter?” They were only half-joking (fortunately, Dad liked DH).

So people still hang on to the Confederate flag as a symbol of their background. They don’t see the racist symbolism. I know that’s not right, but that’s the way it is.

Creek yes I would agree that “history” or “tradition” are the main reasons. But those are reasons are fraught with dangerous rationales and can lack empathy

I actually understand the appreciation for history and tradition. But history and tradition do not have to be mistake free. To the contrary, history and tradition are filled with examples of mistakes, bad judgment, etc. Without exception, mistakes are and have been made in America and by all other countries and people.

To me the underlying problem may lie in the ideal of America (and most of not all other countries) needing to be or being “perfect.” This underlying ideal seems to be the basis of a lot of world and moral problems.

Me too…On both counts! What an awful representation of “pride” -

We live near Gettysburg and locally there is talk about whether some of the monuments outside of the museum should be removed. My lad shared with me some of his discussions online about it. Those who feel the monuments should stay brought up Auschwitz as an example of keeping history - even bad history - fresh in people’s minds so it hopefully wouldn’t be repeated ever again. To that those who felt they should go replied, “but Auschwitz isn’t showing off statues of Hitler and his cohorts with pride.”

It’s nowhere near a perfect match considering genocide vs Civil War, but that’s what at least one young set was discussing.

H and I are neutral about monuments at Gettysburg. We can see both sides. He’s a southerner from birth. I’m a northerner. We have a mixed marriage which can make it interesting at times. When he was in school he learned all about “The War of Northern Aggression” more than he learned about the “Civil War” in history class. My history classes moved on through the world wars, Korea, Vietnam and up to then modern day. His didn’t go far beyond the Northern Aggression only lightly touching upon WWII.

I haven’t asked him how he feels about MS’ flag. I know I feel they should change it. I’m positive our upbringings (aka tradition) have a lot to do with how we feel.

If people are clinging to the Confederate flag because they are angry at the events following Reconstruction, and it is adherence to the tradition of that upset and anger which binds the rebel emblem to their hearts and minds, maybe a newly constructed understanding of the word re-construction is in order.

It was not intended to be a re-institution, a renewal, a rehab or a review or return to.