For some it might be “tradition” or “history” but the unfortunate reality is there are also a lot of bigots and racists out there.
I think @MaineLonghorn hit on a lot of it. I’m a transplant to a city where the flag debate is a hot topic. The most recent wave in our city was when council declared that no confederate flags shall be flown on public property. We had a third confederate flag that was flown outside a museum that served as the last capitol of the Confederacy. The building has an important part in Civil War history. The problem is that while the museum is private, the land & building are public. The flag was removed and the latest uproar began. The flaggers have been protesting every single Saturday morning for the last 7 or so years. Meanwhile, several large confederate flags are prominently flown around town on private land.
Many people I know believe it should be put back. Their main POV is that they should be able to be proud of their ancestry. Their ancestors never had slaves They were fighting for their livelihood. Whether you agree or not, that is the main position I hear.
OTOH, incorporating the confederate flag into a state flag seems to be more cut and dry. Change the design and put the previous version in a museum.
People on Facebook have been forwarding a meme that says (and I quote)
“If we had equal rights in this country wouldn’t my southern heritage be just as important as your black history ?” These words are placed under and above a confederate flag.
The fact that people actually have these beliefs makes me really sad about where we are headed as a nation. I naively believed we were largely past this kind of thinking. What an idiot I was.
Yes it’s the position that they hate Yankees and not that they approve of racism. If you haven’t lived in the south it’s hard to understand.
And I will admit my ancestors did own slaves. I have a bill of sale that has stayed in the family. Not sure if I should destroy it??
You could donate it to a museum. That’s where these kinds of things belong if we are actually interested in preserving history. I think people need to have access to those kinds of documents and a museum could put it in its proper context.
^Good idea.
A meme like that would seem to say that southern heritage is best represented by the flag of those who committed treason to defend slavery. Is that the message that those sharing the meme really want to say?
They don’t see it that way. You’re not thinking from their standpoint. In their eyes, the south had the right to separate from the Union.
Again, they don’t care if Yankees think their ancestors committed treason. They don’t care what Yankees think AT ALL.
You can’t group all southerners together as having the same thoughts. Maybe some think that way. Some ARE racist (yes, I lived in the south for a long time and yes, there are racists everywhere not just in the south.).
“If we had equal rights in this country wouldn’t my southern heritage be just as important as your black history ?”
Black history IS southern heritage as well. White people don’t lay claim to southern heritage.
SIL is from Mississippi and is completely for removing the confederate flag image from the state flag. We’ve had some discussion about it because one of the prominent advocates for change is the Mississippi State football star who has declared he won’t play if there isn’t change (SIL says he is a lock for NFL) and is being fully supported by his coach and university president. Certainly not the driving factor any more than Faith Hill, but all of these voices joined together are pushing for the change.
Evidently, if I understand correctly, the NCAA has told the state that they can’t host any post-season tournaments until the flag is changed and SIL says they often have baseball teams in their sport’s tournaments for both Mississippi State and Ole Miss. He says that’s lots of money lost and that other large industries are likely to support the change and their money talks as well. I heard this morning that the governor is set to sign the bill as soon as it passes (today?).
I’m not saying it’s all southerners. I’m not in the group. But I’m trying to explain the viewpoint of that group. @doschicos , were you born in the south? It makes a difference. Just like I will never be a Mainer and can’t understand some of their thinking.
You are right that there is bigotry everywhere, although when we moved up here some people were sure it was confined to the south and told me that.
I live in the State of Mississippi. I was not born here nor did I grow up here. I have been following this topic with interest, but not obsession. One of the big points of those who oppose removing the flag is that there was a vote a number of years ago as to whether or not to change the flag. The vote then was no. The current Governor said in his campaign that he respected the vote of the people.
Many people feel that there should be another vote by the people about changing it. I am sure that it would pass this time. I wasn’t here last time it came to a vote, and I would definitely vote to change it.
I am not sure about the laws of the state. It could be that a vote by the people would be required to change it. In that case, I feel that they would have to have a vote. I also am pretty sure that the vote would be to change it. A lot of the anger is against the lawmakers and the Governor about not bringing it to a vote of the people.
Which, unfortunately, is still often tradition within the families that hold those views. IME, it’s very rare to find a student who is racist when the parents or caretakers are not. I’ve heard about it happening once from a parent who had no idea where her son got his views from. I’ve not experienced it from the kid’s POV with students I see.
No, I wasn’t.
That might be their viewpoint but it doesn’t make that viewpoint right or tolerable. Lots of behavior, “traditions” are learned from birth but we evolve, opinions evolve. Women’s rights, LBTGQ rights, racial equality, etc. have all evolved. If you know something - a symbol, whatever - carries meaning/history that brings pain to a large swath of society, time to make changes. Time to put it in a museum.
I know many southerners. I have family and friends living in many southern states. All of them think it’s well past time to put the confederate flags away, relegated to only museums.
Unfortunately, I do know such a case with an extended family member. He was exposed while serving in the military. There is actually much “recruitment” , brainwashing online and elsewhere, very much like the conversion the jihadists have employed. Let’s just say it has caused a lot of pain in the family.
But, yes, it is most often views that are learned at the knee.
Agreed. H keeps up with plenty of friends from his youth, born and raised in the south. Those friends cross the spectrum with their thoughts even though they all went to the same grade and high schools together. Some college friends too. (We both went to VA Tech, though he’s mainly from NC - only lived in VA through third grade.)
At VT and with H’s friends I never once experienced Yankee hatred though there was some playful fun with it on both sides (myself included). The only Yankee hatred I endured was from H’s mom before she developed Alzheimers. After that she liked me! H and his brother were both able to break the lineage of racism in their family. I wish all could.
Where H grew up in NC he tells me some considered anyone from north of their location to be Yankees. He moved there from VA - from the capital of the Confederacy to be specific - and was considered a Yankee by them. We both scratch our heads about that one. Some of the same people wondered why anyone would leave their county (not state, but county) because you could get everything you needed or wanted right there. Those folks aren’t in his circle of friends.
There’s a wide range of views.
“Black history IS southern heritage as well. White people don’t lay claim to southern heritage.”
Es verdad, @doschicos. Es verdad.
I’m 65, white, 10 generations in our southern family cemetery. Two years ago, my 60 year old white brother, who never left the South, told me, “Once anyone explains to us why the monuments and flag are wrong, it’s so clear. Of course they have to go.”. He can’t understand any defence at this point in time. I can’t either. None. It’s indefensible.
Some of us white southerners were deliberately miseducated and indoctrinated with lost cause propoganda, but most of us know how to read.
I love your post - that and what I see IRL via H and many of his friends give me a lot of hope for the future. Thanks for posting.