<p>I cannot imagine anyone in my house saying “shut up”. But angry faces, muttering, stomping, door slamming? Go for it! Nit sure H would agreee. Glad we are past that. </p>
<p>Frustrating how the doors at my work place wont really slam.</p>
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<p>No. In fact, that behavior shouldn’t be tolerated from anyone if unprovoked/undeserved*. </p>
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<li>If someone is mouthing nothing but abusive invective, BS, or talking over/interrupting someone who is trying to talk/needs a break from a person…those are some occasions where telling someone to shut up is called for. However, it should be in a controlled manner…not in the form of an explosive temper tantrum from frustration as happened to me two years ago with an older college friend who wouldn’t stop venting at me after already doing so for 4-5 straight hours.<br></li>
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<p>In my extended and immediate family, doing any of those except muttering would be treated the same way as telling one’s parents to “shut up”…won’t end well for the offending kid/teen. </p>
<p>Making angry faces would just get one dismissed by my parents and older relatives as “acting childish”. A serious insult to adolescents/teens trying to prove they are “adults”. </p>
<p>Among extended family, slamming doors or otherwise being “too loud” about one’s anger was also considered a sign the given individual was “raised in a barn”, mentally weak*, and not very well educated. Ironically, this was what ended my early teen rebellious behavior by 15. </p>
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<li>Model of mental strength most of my extended family and some older friends subscribe to is to remain calm and cool, especially during crises. A.K.A…: The strong silent type. I highly respect those who demonstrate this. For me, it’s still a work in progress though many colleagues and friends would feel I come far closer to this than most people they know/meet in their lives.</li>
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<p>It is a lifetime contract. Treat others how you would like to be treated. We all have moody days, myself included, but when getting your head snapped off starts becoming a norm that is an issue. Easily identifiable as a parent of as a person.
There was no up and down to the situation in our case it was a wake up call and It ended the behavior. He realized I wasn’t going to be a doormat and had time to reflect on how his actions were impacting others. So it has never been a cycle. After all, respect and kindness were things he was taught from a young age, he just needed a reminder as the teenage year set in. Even the best of us use poor judgement from time to time.</p>
<p>Sarabande, your issue is very common with teenagers so don’t beat yourself up. I think you have gotten a lot of good advice but don’t agree with those who are putting the focus on your actions. While I do not think the disrespect issue rises to the level of running off to a counselor, you absolutely must not let it go. At the end of the day we do indeed “teach others how to treat us” and disrespect issues will not resolve themselves. Especially with teenagers. Our job as parents is to help them change the behavior in the least stressful manner. The teenage years can really be tumultuous and we need to keep that in mind. I think the fact that he is resisting driving is a sure sign he is feeling stress.</p>
<p>I don’t support the idea of the $ penalty that you originally proposed. As another poster pointed out you need to identify the currency your son deals in. I have been very successful with taking the cell phone. I am reasonable about it and they can have it back the next day PROVIDED there is no disrespect. These kids cannot function today without their phones and it is a huge incentive for changing behavior. I also give the cold shoulder and don’t do as much for them during that period. This is a genuine response as it is hard to do something nice for someone who has just insulted you. My favorite line is “I am a person too”. Sometimes they just need to be reminded that we also have feelings.</p>
<p>I too have a husband who travelled constantly on long overseas trips when our children were young. My son definitely suffered and it was difficult. I’ll never forget in 2nd grade when a classmate’s dad walked out of school with his son on his shoulders. My son enviously looked on and turned to me with tears in his eyes and said “where is MY dad”? But that was the reality of my H’s job and it wasn’t going to change. Getting him on board with supporting you is essential. My husband wanted the little time he was home to be stress free and didn’t want to discipline. It took a lot of talking it through. Eventually he saw that he had no choice but to get involved or risk a serious problem both with me and his children’s behavior. We worked it out. </p>
<p>I think you need to let your son know there will be consequences for the disrespect and then follow through consistently. And yes, your husband needs to do the same.</p>
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<p>I wrote that post after a very long drive last night and certainly should have elaborated. When I say outward signs of frustration, I was regarding things like throwing things, slamming doors, punching walls. Yes, I have seen it all. I think boys tend to manifest their feelings so polar opposite to women it is hard for moms to understand what drives behaviors such as those and it why fathers tend to let them roll. The underlying emotions to those actions is usually fear or hurt. So we have always encouraged our sons, no matter how raw or honest their responses may be to express exactly what is causing those reactions.</p>
<p>Slamming doors, punching walls, etc, shows an amazing amount of disrespect for the home in which you live. Someone more than likely had to bust their backside to afford the place, and if you are honored to be sheltered in a comfortable, stable home, you certainly should have enough respect to treat it well, not to mention the same respect to the people that provided it.</p>
<p>A vocal sign of frustration certainly is not a punishable action unless it is directed at someone “I hate you” or “shut up” and is a normal everyday reaction to life’s mishaps and irritations.</p>
<p>Hope that clarified things.</p>
<p>Guaranteed he is taking notes on how you handle this situation. Start most conversations with “you know I love you…” Lay down the law, be firm, try not to raise your voice or be angry, but set definite boundaries. We went through this with our son,
it is a phase… our job is to get through it, help them get through it w/o permanent damage to relationships, grades, etc. Try not to pour gas on the fire… it IS a phase.</p>
<p>Well, FWIW, I am the only “yeller” in the house (nothing major by clinical standards), although when much younger, my son had very poor frustration tolerance and tantrums. Now even he “hold it in”, at least while being observed. I know a young lady who almost always hold it in, and then in private, cuts herself.</p>
<p>I definately put putting holes in walls, or physical aggression towards property in the behaviors not to tolerate catagory, along with verbal and physcial aggression against people. Where would folks stand with verbal or physical aggression against self? No longer a “intolerable behavior”, perhaps a psychiatric problem? In my experience this sometimes splits accross gender lines. But I am straying way off topic.</p>
<p>For me, the most important message is to pay attention to the things you like, or these behaviors will extinguish.And when you are setting limits, be sure to spell out the replacement behavior you would like, then give postive attention to that when you see it.</p>
<p>I grew up in a home with lots and lots of yelling and screaming. I constantly felt sick in the pit of my stomach from it. I vowed I would not have that kind of home when I had kids. And we haven’t. I have never yelled at my kids; no one yells in our house. However, that is not the same as saying we “hold it in.” We certainly air our grievances, just not in that manner.</p>
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<p>In my extended family and parents, expressing “I hate you” would be regarded dismissively as extremely childish behavior. </p>
<p>Telling someone to “shut up” will bring severe punishments of older relatives/parents upon the child/teen clueless enough to say it toward them*. That’s a gross affront to anyone, especially in a family who takes “respect thy elders” extremely seriously. </p>
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<li>No car/allowance if provided, “punishment chores”, having one’s room stripped bare except for bed and desk with textbooks**, getting lectured/yelled at, and with some old-school types…boys/teens getting slapped/knocked to the ground by the father. Granted, the last I only heard through word of mouth as such practices were much more acceptable during the '60s and '70s than they were in the '80s onwards.<br></li>
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<p>** None of my generation’s parents in our extended family allowed us kids to have TVs or other entertainment devices in our bedrooms growing up. One thing which i found interesting and later as an older teen found odd was how other parents would allow TV/video games in the kids’ bedroom which did seem to undermine the “threat” of a grounding as the grounded kid/teen could just watch TV/play video games for hours in his/her bedroom at worst.</p>
<p>^ That is awesome! And for the record, I don’t yell AT anybody. Maybe at the TV.</p>
<p>In response to cobrat below: my kids didn’t, and still don’t have televsions or gaming platforms in their rooms.</p>
<p>@Nrsdb4 - “I have never yelled at our kids; no one yells in our house”. </p>
<p>I am sincerely impressed, just don’t know how one accomplishes that with teenagers. I can give as good as I get, but will say it doesn’t happen all that often anymore. But Jeesh, I think I may have even yelled when they were toddlers.</p>
<p>Mom of 2 college-age sons, raised with 3 brothers. In my experience, what young men want more than anything in this world is autonomy, and at some point, the mere existence of mom is the scratchy neck tag on the Tshirt of life. #2 on the list of things they want is someone to argue with. </p>
<p>OP’s son’s behavior is not acceptable. Scorn, derision, and sarcasm in localized doses is to be expected at 16, but not a daily delivery. The mocking I would find especially unacceptable. My oldest is, like me, a yeller, but I would never ever countenance that behavior. Nor would DH. Mom is a person. </p>
<p>Gimmicks like privelages, money, etc. are a pain because MOM is still the person doing the bookkeeping, and my sons would have gladly given up the money to keep arguing. So I say scrap the whole “you owe me buddy” convoluted punishments. Go for something easier:</p>
<p>Sit down, and explain that you are hurt and bewildered and unhappy with his treatment of you. That while dad is away, you thought you would be a team, and that’s not happening. Then pick three things you’d like him to stop: please don’t make fun of me at breakfast. Please don’t tell me to shut up. Please don’t slam your door. DO NOT ENGAGE in ARGUING 
When (not if) he starts to pick a fight with you, say — calmly (that’s the hard part) Why would you say something like that to me? I don’t want to talk to you when you are like this. We’re done with this conversation for now. And walk away. Bathrooms are good. Reading a book is better. And yes, I have honestly broken into tears. Not fake ones, but if they are going to hurt my feelings, I’m going to react like a person. (Ironically, I would later have to assure them they are okay people even if they made me cry)</p>
<p>THEN call your DH, and tell him to talk to S on a man-to-man level about how we treat women, how we treat our mom, and how he needs to step up and help you. Give him responsibility and ignore the sighing, moaning, etc. that comes with taking out the trash and just say “thanks so much for your help”. Over and over. Nauseatingly over and over. In your head, it’s fine to think how ridiculous it is. How juvenile he is behaving. But draw a line and non-punitively, non-emotionally, stick to it. Take his phone away if you want to, but it’s hard to tie that to bad behavior other than you have the power to do it as a payback.</p>
<p>Go out to dinner, or to a movie, or to a game. Do something fun together. Tell him you want to spend time without the angst. Grit your teeth and do it and it won’t be like a movie but it will help. </p>
<p>And don’t feel sorry for him. What he needs is a behavioral guardrail, and you are providing one Someday he’ll get it. Okay, a long time from now, but he will!!</p>
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I agree strongly with this. I think the fine related to school will be counterproductive. He doesn’t consider that “his” money, probably. The phone, though…I’ll never forget the look on my kid’s face the first time I put out my hand and said, “The phone. Right now.”</p>
<p>For kids with behavior problems I reccomend those pay as you go phones. Then you reinforce behaviors you like with a certain number of minutes. Not sure how that works with texts, but it’s similar. I suggest families reframe what they DON’T want to see, into what they DO want to see. So instead of don’t mock me, I suggest rewarding a pleasant breakfast greeting, or better yet, a pleasant conversation about the upcoming day.</p>
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<p>Growing up, it was very very upsetting to listen to yelling. Even if it was not directed at me, it made me feel terrible. And usually, once the yelling started, it would make its way around to me. I don’t think anyone likes being yelled at.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the only time anyone should yell at me is if they are saying “watch out for that bus!”</p>
<p>Again, that does NOT mean we don’t have conflict in our home. We and our kids are not perfect. We just don’t yell. It’s not something I ever want to do to someone I love. I know others have different feelings about it and family dynamics which include yelling. I’m personally glad to be done with it.</p>
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<p>Okay, that is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen here. I love it. I think it’s also true at some point for teenage girls.</p>
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<p>In this aspect, you and your family and my extended family are mostly in agreement. </p>
<p>Only exception is that yelling is reserved for parents/elders to scold children/teens who are exceedingly disrespectful to the elder members of the family or who really screwed up(i.e. Causing injuries/fatalities due to DUI). Yelling was one of the rarely used “nuclear options” of disciplining choices for younger wayward relatives.</p>
<p>Teenagers are more like toddlers than anyone likes to admit.</p>
<p>They are faced with an explosion of physical growth, brain changes and surging hormones.</p>
<p>Kids of all ages hold it together in public and when they are around people who don’t love them unconditionally. They allow themselves to fall apart when they are with the people they know love them no matter what. So as parents we get the worst our kids have to offer because they know we’ll love them even when they push our buttons and act in hateful ways.</p>
<p>Many of the most irritating, disrespectful, hateful things our teens do and say around us are because we are their safe place. We offer a soft place to land and regroup for the next day. Provided that your family is pretty average, your son’s button pushing behavior is not personal. You and your safe home are his safe place to fall apart. It is a scary world out there, and he has to go out there again tomorrow. </p>
<p>As others have said, his grades are good, he has friends, and is involved in a sport. He needs space to breathe, time to finish growing up. He needs to know, absolutely, that you believe in him, that you love him, that you are proud of him.</p>
<p>Also, pick your battles.</p>
<p>My older brother and my father had a series of escalating arguments about mowing the lawn. My father expected my brother to mow the lawn, and my brother didn’t want to.</p>
<p>Such a silly face-off, looking at it from the distance of almost 50 years, but two very stubborn males refused to compromise or back down. Like an alpha wolf and a young upstart circling each other, each waiting for the other to flinch.</p>
<p>My brother was banished to his room “until”. Not a chance in the world he was going to admit defeat on this, so he stayed in his room…</p>
<p>He stayed until dark, and then he went out the window, across the roof and down the tree. </p>
<p>The following day, my parents got a call from a very nice member of a large city police department some 4 hours away from our small town. My brother had hitchhiked out of our town, headed for parts unknown, and had been picked up on the streets of this city.</p>
<p>Here is what this police officer had to say:</p>
<p>“Dr. East, it appears that your son REALLY dislikes mowing the lawn. He tells me that he has no intention of ever mowing the lawn. Maybe you should consider hiring someone to do your yard work. We picked him up in a tough area, and I don’t think making a point about the grass is worth this, do you?”</p>
<p>Pick your battles.</p>
<p>whoa, eastcoastcrazy…your brother was either serious, or knew exactly how to get under your parents skin.</p>