<p>jrzzmom, I found this interesting:</p>
<p>"Colleges evidently wouldn’t mind less glitz and more grit, either, it was a relief to learn at a recent school meeting for parents of next year’s juniors. According to the principal, one admissions person at a prestigious college confessed that as essay after essay about service and soul-searching in Costa Rica arrived in the office, the committee members sighed and tossed them aside. "</p>
<p>I guess there is the perspective of kids trying things to see what they like or dislike, and then there is the perspective of an adcom or interviewer assessing what a kid is like by what he/she has done.</p>
<p>For example, a parent may think it is a valuable experience for their child to do a community service project somewhere and insist that the kid go. Maybe it will be a life changing experience, or maybe it will just confirm for the kid that s/he wants to be an investment banker.</p>
<p>The experience is good for the kid, whether or not it matters to the adcom.</p>
<p>I would hope that those of you who are making these judgments about service projects (or any other type of e/c for that matter), whether they’re around the world, or around the corner, actually have thoroughly researched each one on which you’re ‘giving points’ or not. If you are, in fact, NOT doing that, then you are not making a fair judgment of any of the kids you’re interviewing. </p>
<p>Northstarmom, again, you’re saying “in most cases”. How did you arrive at that conclusion? How many of these projects have you researched thoroughly enough to even know what is involved on a day to day basis? How many have you visited? </p>
<p>While there are surely ‘packaged’ trips which may be categorized as you’ve described, I would hesitate to say “most”. Just as I would hesitate to say that “most” students who participate in these ventures do so for the purpose of including it on an application or resume. My D did her trip after she was already in college so it was a moot point. I’ll also echo what Marite said about interviews. None of my Ds had any inquiries into their summer activities at any of their interviews, even though they were all detailed on the application.</p>
<p>S1 did not use any of his summer experiences in his essays. S2 wrote a wonderful essay about how much he loved his summer camp. It was for a college to which he got admitted but decided not to attend. The essays for the college which he is attending had nothing to do with summer activities. They were not about life-changing experiences, or indeed about expensive activities or about finding himself at home or abroad. I have no idea which parts of my Ss applications got them into their colleges.</p>
<p>I dont know if my D may have written about her summer experiences- I didn’t see her essays, although if I was her, I would have written about what she learned over the course of time from volunteering 2000 hours at the pony ring at the zoo- from training ponies and learning to ride to shoveling pony crap and cleaning penile adhesions
She also had worked at a residential camp at the same time- so I bet she had a lot of stories about how despite her families blue collar background, she was able to have some pretty interesting summer experiences.
It helps though- that she has been a terrific writer since elementary school, with a very active voice and ear for dialogue.
Students whose expereinces may have made as much of a difference, but they aren’t able to communicate it , may be overlooked by commitees</p>
<p>Hi Alwaysamom,
I do not research the ECs reported in student applications. I look at it this way- it’s incumbent upon the student to sell himself and his activities to me.</p>
<p>If his essay is vague or comes across as insincere, if his service documentation is sketchy, if I can’t really figure out what he did or how long he did it, if he has only done one service project in his life and it was one of those weeklong trips somewhere, if his resume seems to tip to the “pay to play” side- these things aren’t going to help his application much. On the other hand, sincerity, commitment, detailed verification of work, continued service, obvious passions and hard work- those things help.</p>
<p>But no, I do not research each project or activity a student presents, I figure it’s up to him to explain it to me. The bottom line is he’s asking- applying for-something so it’s up to him to do the convincing. He’s got a few sheets of paper and maybe an interview to sell himself.</p>
<p>Doubleplay:</p>
<p>It seems every interview goes differently. I don’t think S was asked questions that would have led him to “sell himself.” According to him, at both interviews, he talked a bit about the classes he’d taken. Both interviewers discussed housing, gave him tips about classes, the social scene, and asked him to show off with his Rubik’s cube. They talked probably as much as he did.</p>
<p>S1’s experiences are too long ago to remember clearly. Anyway, he only went to two interviews, though he was admitted to 4 colleges,</p>
<p>Marite, you’re right, actually in most cases the application is the only deciding factor for the scholarship award, so it’s really important for the student to express his accomplishments clearly. I wasn’t involved in the interviewing. I think it was another poster who does alumni interviews, and I guess she does ask about extracurricular, service and summer activities, and the like.</p>
<p>My son was interviewed for a scholarship and his job, summer, and extracurricular activities were discussed. My son incidentally loves interviews and I’m sure he wishes you could get into college solely on the basis of an interview!</p>
<p>doubleplay, I think it obviously depends on what criteria you’re looking for and what the purpose of the interview/application process is. If your scholarship committee work was for a scholarship which was heavily dependent on community service, then, of course, the applicant should do his/her best to describe that service in detail, and attach the requisite documentation. I guess I would have to ask why you would “rarely” give any points to kids who did the service junkets if you, as stated, did not research them to know enough about what was involved? I’m honestly curious. Does this ever vary? Or is this just your standard, or that of the group for which you’re working? Or is that only in the case of kids who don’t convince you? Even though I’ve mentioned that one of my D’s did an overseas community service project, it obviously isn’t the same thing as you’re referencing, for she was already a college student and it was for six weeks, not one. I do, though, know lots of kids who did the one week junkets you refer to this past year during their spring breaks to go to the hurricane hit areas to work with various organizations, including Habitat for Humanity. I can’t see how that effort, and resultant experience, could be less valuable than a kid who may have volunteered, for instance, at their local hospital (as 3 of my 4 Ds have). I think my problem is the attitude, and it’s not just yours, that appears to have a preconceived judgment of these programs and the kids who participate in them. I guess I’m naive to think that in any of these circumstances where kids are interviewed, that each is evaluated as an individual on their own merits with what they have to offer in the process. I realize that people look at situations through the filter of their own experiences and opinions, but I would hope that objectivity would be more in evidence than it appears from some of the comments on CC.</p>
<p>Many posters seem to think that expensive trips abroad or community service that is not particularly productive for local people are a waste of time. But whether or not they impress adcoms, they do have long-term benefits. Many students will return to places they have fond memories of; the experience of working in a poor community will inspire kids to do more. In fact, it is quite possible that realizing how limited their aid was may inspire them to learn more about the community and to acquire the skills they lacked on that previous visit.</p>
<p>Hi Alwaysamom,
Ill give an example. Say you were presented with this- 3 wonderful kids, their packages include a description of their service and the number of hours. First girl works at an animal shelter and includes a log of dates/times (200 hours), a letter from her director, and a description of her responsibilities. Second girl writes that she worked 500 hours at her church (thats all the information she gives). Third boy went to Mexico and worked on a church build (which I know had to be backbreaking work) but puts down over 300 hours because he was there for 2 weeks (I guess he worked 24 hours a day). They all had wonderful essays and everything else about them was great. How would you select? Anyone else care to try? </p>
<p>Anyway, it wasn’t so much that I discounted the activities, but the presentation left something to be desired.</p>
<p>Also,
I didn’t say that I hold it against anyone for taking part in overseas service opportunities. I just said I don’t FAVOR students who do so, because it wouldn’t be fair to those who don’t because they just can’t afford to. It is a gut wrenching experience to be faced with 12 extraordinarly candidates and have to eliminate 11 of them. Given the same amount of work, effort, commitment between someone who has gone overseas and someone who stays in the community- I’d look somewhere else in the application to break the tie.</p>
<p>Well, that’s different. If kids don’t take the time, nor make the effort, to properly document the work they have completed, that is an entirely different issue than what that work itself is. I can totally understand the problem if you are not given the information necessary to make an informed decision. My concern was with your comment that you rarely give points to the kids who participate in these projects, and admitted that you had a soft spot for kids who did other types of continuous service work. This indicated a bias to me (not only due to a lack of documentation), especially when you indicated that you expected bullets for your comment. I think the more interesting discussion would be, how would you select from those three kids you mentioned if all had done an equally good (and honest and accurate) job of documenting what they’d done. :)</p>
<p>I understand that, in general, a longterm commitment to an activity or e/c is seen as a positive, rather than a lot of short-term ones. I guess with the community service issue, I just think that it isn’t quite so black and white and that there is always the chance, or even the likelihood, that some kids will have a mix of both. Many of the high schools here have a requirement for service hours as one condition of graduation. In theory, I found this a fairly positive idea. In practice, for some kids, it’s a joke and they’re scrambling after Christmas of senior year to find a placement. Even at that, the majority of kids do something worthwhile and often are drawn in, unexpectedly, to develop a real interest in the organization for whom they’ve worked. I guess we have to be thankful for those who truly get something worthwhile out of their experience. Like most things, though, having parents who model this type of service is probably more important than any service which is proscribed by schools.</p>
<p>p.s. Just wanted to add that I did not mean that any particular type of activity should be favored over another, but just that none should be automatically considered less important, or less valuable.</p>
<p>Back to the original question about the value of various summer activities…</p>
<p>My D spent the summer after sophomore year doing an internship at a local university. It was through a selective state-wide program for students interested in science and engineering. The kids had to apply and then be interviewed by the prospective employers, they worked full time for 8-weeks and were paid a stipend of 1k, and at the end of the summer they presented their project both as a poster and orally. What I liked about the program was that the kids were given adult responsibilities (with guidance) and were expected to respond in kind. The interview experience was difficult for my introverted D, but I think it will help her when it’s time for college interviews. </p>
<p>This year she really wanted to get out of town for part of the summer, so we searched for scholarship programs and she applied to four of them. She’s at Grinnell in their 4-week long Honors Scholar program, free tuition, R&B and travel. This program accepts 24 students and is directed at URM and low income students, but the other programs she applied to were open to everyone. She called last night, excited about all of the wonderful kids she’s meeting and how difficult but interesting the classes are. She gets an evaluation at the end of the program that explains what they did and how well she applied herself.</p>
<p>Will these summer activities look good for her college applications? Perhaps. Could we have afforded to pay for summer enrichment activities? Yes, although in my mind it’s a zero sum game, the money either goes to pay for summer programs or college tuition, and I value the later. But mainly, I’m just a tough mom :-)</p>
<p>Doubleplay:<br>
What kind of scholarship is this? </p>
<p>Alwaysamom:</p>
<p>What program is it that made it possible for your daughter to spend six weeks in Kenya? Can parents go? </p>
<p>Anybody:
Please suggest good summer language programs for h.s. students (particularly in german or russian?) in the U.S. or abroad. </p>
<p>Allmusic:</p>
<p>Don’t mean to hijack so here is what my kids did: S1’s first h.s. summer was taking PE in summer school, some local rowing and music programs, discovering paintball. Second summer was COSMOS, a math-science camp at UC Santa Cruz and then one-week Stanford Jazz Workshop, and continuing to develop paintball skills. Third summer was eight-week pre-college program taking classics and psychology for credit. We were willing to pay for summer experiences for enrichment, to spark an interest or passion, and to help him gain confidence and maturity, which they did. </p>
<p>S2 prefers to hibernate during the summer. However, he did emerge long enough to attend a two-week jazz camp at Idyllwild in CA last year and he will do that again and also a computer/film camp held at UCLA this summer and some travel to visit relatives. Again, the programs are for enrichment and to force him to get out and be “amongst the humans” as I like to say. He is still 14 or I would be pushing him to get a summer job as well.</p>
<p>jazzymom, </p>
<p>Here is a link to the program which provided this opportunity:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.freethechildren.com/aboutus/index.html[/url]”>http://www.freethechildren.com/aboutus/index.html</a></p>
<p>Her program there was for college students but, yes, they do offer other opportunities for adults/parents, too. Free The Children’s partner organization, Leaders Today, is the group which organizes these projects.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.leaderstoday.com/[/url]”>http://www.leaderstoday.com/</a></p>
<p>"Anybody:
Please suggest good summer language programs for h.s. students (particularly in german or russian?) in the U.S. or abroad. "</p>
<p>Check out Concordia College’s summer camps, which include programs in Minn. in German and Russian.</p>
<p>For Spanish, students also can do a biking trip in Spain. For French, they can do a canoing trip in Minn.</p>
<p>Thank you to moms Always and Northstar.</p>
<p>My son is one of those kids who went on a summer community service trip to Thailand – and it was definitely worthwhile for him. I am sorry to see some people making assumptions about the trip. We are not rich; my son financed the trip mostly out of his own savings. At the time, I was impressed that my 17 year old son wanted to use his savings to go to Thailand instead of using it to buy a car. </p>
<p>My son did claim community service hours from the trip, but he didn’t pad them - he was given a certificate that documented the hours. Most of the community service involved working with Thai children at local schools to help them learn English; he worked with kids of all ages, from elementary to high school. </p>
<p>He had a homestay and lived with a very poor family in a rural area- the parents spoke not a word of English, and he absolutely adored them. He was with a group of about 7 Americans, and the kids were together each day for their community service activities as well as many group activities - but it seemed like he spent more time with his host family and with their relatives. At least most of the stories he came back with were about the host family. He also made good friends with several Thai students near his age - I guess social activities were arranged between Thai teenagers and the Americans – since of course the real purpose of the trip was cultural exchange, rather than community service. </p>
<p>There are very significant differences between Thai culture and American expectations – and so it certainly was a learning experience for my son, exposing him to a very different way of life and different cultural norms. He picked up a smattering of Thai along the way. </p>
<p>My son did write about his Thai experiences on his college essay, but not about the community service - rather he wrote what I thought was a risk essay about teenage prostitution in Pattaya Beach. </p>
<p>Not only did my son benefit from the experience, but it led our family down a different path. My son hadn’t even started thinking about college when he decided he wanted to travel abroad - he was just looking for adventure. But it turned us into a foreign exchange family - a year later we hosted a Thai student for a short time; my daughter traveled to Russia twice, and in a week she’ll be taking off for China. Every single trip for my kids has involved homestays. </p>
<p>Again -we aren’t rich. Two of the trips were done as cheaply as could possibly be arranged with groups of public school kids. The other two trips were done under the auspices of well-established foreign exchange groups (AFS & YFU), and were pricey, but they were arranging travel to areas which are not readily accessible to tourists. </p>
<p>I still get email from the foreign exchange groups, and not long ago I posted a notice about an opportunity for a summer exchange to Egypt via AFS -all scholarships, no cost to the students. Another cc parent saw the post, her son applied, was accepted - and will be traveling to Egypt. </p>
<p>I would agree that no one should choose a trip solely for resume-padding, but I’m sorry that some people see the trips only in that light. I really cannot think of any more valuable way to spend my money, nor anything more worthwhile that I could have arranged for my kids. If, knowing what I know today, I were told that participation in such an exchange would hurt my kid’s chances at admission at a particular college… my response would be, to hell with that college.</p>
<p>Calmom, I think you’d agree that your son’s trip is rather dissimilar to a $10K European teen tour, paid for my mom and dad, correct? Even if the kid on the teen tour has a terrific time, I think the comparison to your son’s trip is apples and oranges. </p>
<p>I was looking at the trips that ARE resume padding, where the kids can’t articulate any real benefit either before or after (besides “fun”, but they could have had “fun” with a group of kids at the mall or beach), and questioning the overall value of such experiences. To me, it seems that it is just parental feeding of further entitlement to kids with high expectations.</p>