More Teens Who Use Marijuana Are Suffering From Psychosis (WSJ)

[mtmind]

@GKUnion

States will regret legalization.

Which states have legalized recreational marijuana use for teens?

[MaineLonghorn]

Any time on Facebook that I post studies about the dangers of marijuana, including psychosis, I get pushback from people claiming the drug works wonders.

I have one acquaintance whose younger son has schizophrenia, so his brother has increased odds of developing psychosis. This kid has been a heavy pot user since high school. His parents got him a medical marijuana card to keep him out of trouble. In college, after a late night of partying he was found in a riverbed next to a bridge. They’re not sure if he jumped or was pushed off. He came very close to dying. He continued to smoke pot and dropped out of school. His parents keep financing him. He has been in South America recently, working on an online master’s degree. It’s just astounding to me. I really fear for people falling under the influence of this supposedly safe drug.

[gardenstategal]

Many users of alcohol and marijuana are self-medicating for something. It’s not to say that a drug can’t hurt the brain, but when it can also soothe a damaged brain, the causality isn’t always there.

Personally, I have a number of friends who are now sober (both alcohol and weed) who now have scripts for anxiety-reducing drugs. Presumably, this is better/safer management of their condition, but it seems a familiar tale.

With that said, it seems possible that someone prone to psychosis, especially with a developing brain, could have it triggered by potent or laced weed. Not a risk you’d want to take.

[GKUnion]

More access to drugs must mean more danger from drugs for teens…right?

[mtmind]

I don’t know . . . marijuana seemed pretty accessible to teens before recreational legalization for adults, only with less clarity on potency, source, etc.

But does your position apply to alcohol? Should we outlaw alcohol for adults to keep it out of the hands of kids? The dangers of alcohol to teens (and adults) are well known and arguably much more prevalent.

Underage Drinking is Dangerous

Youth who drink alcohol are more likely to experience

• School problems, such as higher rates of absences or lower grades.
• Social problems, such as fighting or lack of participation in youth activities.
• Legal problems, such as arrest for driving or physically hurting someone while drunk.
• Physical problems, such as hangovers or illnesses.
• Unwanted, unplanned, and unprotected sexual activity.
• Disruption of normal growth or sexual development.
• Physical and sexual violence.
• Increased risk of suicide and homicide.
• Alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes and other unintentional injuries, such as burns, falls, or drowning.
• Memory problems.
• Misuse of other substances.
• Changes in brain development that may have life-long effects.
• Alcohol poisoning.

In general, the risk of youth experiencing these problems is greater for those who binge drink than for those who do not binge drink.

Early initiation of drinking is associated with development of an alcohol use disorder later in life.

Underage Drinking | CDC

[GKUnion]

Marijuana is illegal at the federal level. Alcohol is not.

Recreational marijuana is illegal in 26 states. Alcohol is not.

Marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug. Alcohol is not.

[mtmind]

That’s beside the point. Alcohol use and abuse creates a huge public health danger to both youth and adults.

IMO pushing alcohol while simultaneously moralizing about the health risks of marijuana is more than a little hypocritical.

[GKUnion]

@mtmind

That’s beside the point.

Is it really though? Our union truck drivers don’t share your opinion, since they can be terminated for marijuana use, even in a state where it is legal recreationally.

Again, states are legalizing a Schedule 1 drug that is still illegal on a federal level. There is no comparison to alcohol.

If you’d like to have a conversation about alcohol you could always start another thread, but several already exist.

NY Times: Even a Little Alcohol Can Harm Your Health

Recent research makes it clear that any amount of drinking can be detrimental. Here’s why you may want to cut down on your consumption beyond Dry January. Gift link

Alcohol and Drugs at Private Schools

I am not going to mention the school. My freshman kid had their first big social gathering at school. My kid was told by other students about how students get drunk and use drugs at such gatherings on CAMPUS. My kid told me that they saw students who appeared drunk. I am aware that high school students drink and use drugs off campus but drinking on campus is a big concern. Isn’t there any supervision during such gatherings?

NY Times: Moderate Drinking Has No Health Benefits, Analysis of Decades of Research Finds

Other articles about this same study noted that people who drank “moderately” were no MORE likely to die prematurely than abstainers. And clearly certain other factors seem to drive health. From the article, “Moderate drinkers tend to be moderate in all ways. They tend to be wealthier, are more likely to exercise and to eat a healthy diet, and are less likely to be overweight. They even have better teeth, scientists say.” So it seems that staying healthy in all sorts of ways is beneficial; it’s not super clear that having a moderate amount of alcohol really has much benefit/harm for your health. So if moderate number of drinks helps you to be more social (clearly a huge health benefit) or relax and let go of stress (another obvious health win), I’m surmising it’s a win. Whereas over indulging is clearly never a win.

[MaineLonghorn]

Alcohol does not cause psychosis. The problem with pot-induced psychosis is that it does not go away even if the person stops using the drug.

[GKUnion]

Well said.

[Mjkacmom]

I actually know many intelligent well educated adults who have switched over from alcohol to marijuana for health reasons (ie switched out a glass of wine for an edible, not switching out drunk for high, but alcohol and marijuana can be abused). I believe pot from a dispensary is less likely to be laced with fentanyl/pcp, which is a real problem with street weed.

My mom was approved for a card in 2015, cancer, her attorney talked her into it, she was so nauseous. Fortunately we were able to get her pot from alternate sources since she died 3 months before her first appointment (there was a waiting list). It really helped her those couple of months, a little before each meal (smoking works better than edibles for nausea since it kicks in right away and doesn’t last as long).

[mtmind]

@GKUnion

Our union truck drivers don’t share your opinion, since they can be terminated for marijuana use, even in a state where it is legal recreationally.

I would hope your truck drivers would be terminated for alcohol use as well, even in states where its recreational use is allowed.

What is really at issue, and what is being compared, are the health risks.

@MaineLonghorn

Alcohol does not cause psychosis. The problem with pot-induced psychosis is that it does not go away even if the person stops using the drug.

Alcohol use can cause psychosis. Alcohol disorder is associated with an eightfold risk of psychosis in men and a threefold risk of psychosis in women. Epidemiological analysis of alcohol and drug use as risk factors for psychotic experiences - PubMed

Also,

Alcohol dependence is wide-spread among people of all ages and socioeconomic groups. Persons with alcohol dependence face enormous health consequences. Alcohol dependence is a major cause of mortality and is associated with psychiatric conditions, neurologic impairment, cardiovascular disease, liver disease, and malignant neoplasms. Psychiatric conditions associated with alcohol dependence include major depression, dysthymia, mania, hypomania, panic disorder, phobias, generalized anxiety disorder, personality disorders, any drug use disorder, schizophrenia, and suicide. Psychiatric comorbidity, in turn, is associated with alcohol-related symptoms of greater severity. Excessive alcohol consumption causes brain damage, as evidenced by brain imaging, and related neurologic deficits, including impairments in working memory, cognitive processing of emotional signals, executive functions, visuospatial abilities, and gait and balance. Understanding the health impact of alcohol dependence | American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy | Oxford Academic

Alcohol related psychosis can become chronic. Alcohol-Related Psychosis: Background, Pathophysiology, Epidemiology

[gouf78]

@murray93

I had my car searched recently when I got pulled over for a minor traffic violation because the cop “smelled marijuana.”

Lots to unwrap here about what you should do. Don’t consent to search is probably the first thing.
That includes taking breathalyzer tests for alcohol. Whole nuther basket of worms for another day.

[GKUnion]

This probably deserves another thread.

[gouf78]

@GKUnion

even in a state where it is legal recreationally.

We are at crossroads on this subject. The federal law reigns supreme above state law on these issues. Until the federal government drug laws makes it legal–it is not actually legal despite what the state says. The government is really just taking a “wait and see” approach.
So while you may not be prosecuted in any way in your home state–dont cross state lines with it. And while a business selling the marijuana needs to pay taxes on the business–the marijuana is not taxed since it is illegal under federal law which creates a real catch 22. So many businesses (even legitimate in their own home state) operate under cash only.

[GKUnion]

@mtmind

I would hope your truck drivers would be terminated for alcohol use as well, even in states where its recreational use is allowed.

If they get drunk on Saturday they won’t be fired when they get drug tested on Wednesday. If they use marijuana on Saturday and they get drug tested on Wednesday…they’re in deep trouble.

@mtmind

What is really at issue, and what is being compared, are the health risks.

This isn’t a comparison topic, it’s a marijuana topic. I’d suggest starting another thread, or replying to the three other alcohol threads that I listed for you above.

[GKUnion]

Every marijuana business in MA is cash only because the banks won’t deal with them.

People think they can go to Colorado and purchase legal marijuana, then get on an airplane and fly home to MA with it, where it is also legal. There is a tough lesson to be learned there.

[gouf78]

@GKUnion

Every marijuana business in MA is cash only because the banks won’t deal with them.

The banks can’t deal with any of them because it’s basically an illegal business according to federal law. It leaves huge cash reserves in the hands of the business which begs for crime --robbery, money laundering etc.

[gouf78]

@Mjkacmom

I actually know many intelligent well educated adults who have switched over from alcohol to marijuana for health reasons

The main noun here is “adult” which in this discussion is very different than the adverse effects for teens. The adverse effects for teens use appears to be very much higher than adult use.