Except their expectations were realistic from what people say. How many times have I heard irl and here “if you’re in the top 10% of your grade at any of these schools you will go to any college you want.
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Hopefully y’all will stop ranking schools based on matriculation lists now that you know how little they mean for boarding school kids without donor or legacy hooks.
Ivy league graduates with high incomes are more likely to be able to afford boarding schools and their kids have a leg up in ivy admissions no matter where they go to school.
Laughing at @CaliMex comment about people having different perceptions. A family friend had a wild child boy who was always in trouble. He “was sent to” Lawrenceville. My mother remains convinced to this day, based on that one boy, that the place is only a step away from juvie. (I don’t think she believes there are girls there either!) She was appalled that we considered it for DS and could not be persuaded that it was in fact an excellent institution. So no, you never know what image your prestige school conjures in the minds of others.
The reality is that you will find people who loved their schools as well as ones who had negative experiences. Listen carefully to all of it. What pleases one person may turn off another. And then you will find people like my mother, who have opinions based on no facts but one person…
@one1ofeach Well, fortunately, those days are long gone. It really is easier for kids to get in based on “holistic” admissions (whatever that means). But legacy and deep pockets are not what they used to be. Still important, but if you look at the schools the landscape has changed a lot. There are more lower, middle and even upper-middle kids at every school.
Yes, kids at top boarding schools who are top of their class can likely get into some great schools, but the list has changed for them as well. Who would have thought U Chicago would be so tough to get into?
Don’t count your kid out because you can’t send the school a million bucks. Schools still need to fill their all of their buckets.
We’ve told our kids, they need to make their own path. And Henry Park ended up doing great as @Calimex reported!
Really? This surprises me. I’ve been a bit concerned about my son’s chances because he doesn’t have any state or national level achievements in extracurriculars (we live in CA so state level competitions tend to draw a LOT of participants). But he definitely has a passion (biomedical engineering) and he will talk your ear off about it if given the chance. He actually did that with the biotechnology teacher at one open house, LOL.
Maybe he is a stronger applicant than I’d thought. I guess we’ll find out in a few weeks.
@CrimsonWife Gross generalization to follow: The larger the school, the more welcoming to pointy kids.
The smaller schools really need kids who are willing to wear multiple hats.
There are lots of talented kids and lots of kids interested in things. Very few kids “know what they want to do with their life” in 8th grade. It’s even a bit absurd to think ANY kid will know that. None of our interviews asked about things like that. They wanted to know if our kids were generally curious and engaged, both in and out of the classroom. They wanted to know that the kids were smart, could keep up, and liked things that had nothing to do with academics.
For my kids all their accomplishments had to do with sports. Nothing academic at all.
This is absolutely not true at our school, and I am pretty sure a lot of others. All the bigger schools recruit for their main sports, the kids who play football, soccer, basketball, hockey, baseball and lacrosse are mostly recruits the coach brought in. There are recruits at all the other sports as well, squash, swimming, track, tennis, cost country you name it, though these teams also have ‘regular’ kids who participate.
There are quite a few kids who were extremely talented and sometimes nationally recognized musicians when they came in, and continue to pursue music at a very high level, performing all over the place. Also science and robotics kids, debate, a serious community service cause they worked on and whatever else. I would say half of the kids at least entered the campus as pointy already.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned as a point of comparison is class size. What’s the average and the maximum class size of the schools you’re looking at? You used to be able to get this information. Iirc when we were looking, Taft had a class max of 10, Choate 15, and Brooks 18, etc. (By contrast, at our LPS classes were capped at 25.)
Boarding schools’ USP has long been personal attention from teachers. See Cookson and Persell, Preparing for Power: America’s Elite Boarding Schools, for example. You are almost certainly going to get more attention–in class and out–from a teacher with fewer students.
Another thing to look at is the percentage of teachers with graduate degrees. That information is usually available on the schools’ websites.
^ boardingschoolreview.com has that info.
@417WHB - while it’s true that at least 50% of students at boarding schools are super talented athletes or musicians (I have no idea what the number actually is, could be higher), I bet they are that AND something else. If they are truly pointy, you will find more of the truly pointy kids at bigger schools. Small schools need well rounded kids to fill more than one bucket. What you are saying is totally consistent with @Happytimes2001.
8th grade is pretty young to know your path. Don’t most people change careers 3 times at least?
I don’t think being pointy relates to a career path in any shape or form. My daughter is in college and still has no idea what she wants to do when she grows up. But being pointy relates to your extracurricular contribution to the community IMO. While yes a lot of kids do multiple things, with pointy kids there is one ‘thing’ they are really good at and the one they are known for. It is the thing they spend most of their non-studying time on, often both on and off campus. That’s my definition of ‘pointy’ anyway.
He did apply to a couple of larger schools upon my husband’s insistence but I really think he’d get lost in the crowd at those. His favorites are small/medium (under 300, and then in the 400-600 range). My favorite for him is in that latter range as well.
If 1/3 of the senior class is going to be applying to MIT, CalTech, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, etc. I think his chances will be better coming from a smaller school than a huge one (especially since he’s only a legacy at one of those colleges).
I don’t think this happens even at the Phillips Academies, definitely not at our BS. That’s one good thing about ED/REA/EA process, the superstars and connected kids tend to find their home in December and do not flood all the top schools with applications. Also, Ivies still seem much more popular with the BS set than the STEM schools in general.
On the “pointiness” issue – I believe all/most schools know they need kids who are the “glue” that bind the class together. Those are the all around good kids, who may not have a spectacular talent/area of achievement.
Hmm, I would’ve guessed that any kid at an elite BS who is decent at math and/or science would be applying to these types of colleges. For the Ivies, I could see my son being interested in Princeton, possibly Cornell, and possibly Columbia (most likely as part of a 3+2 program with a LAC due to the large size), but the others don’t really have strong engineering programs. Harvard, Dartmouth, and Penn technically have engineering schools but nobody’s choosing them over a Stanford/CalTech/CMU/etc.
To quote @skieurope , the plural of anecdote is not data. Of the four kids who were friends with DS (or whose parents I knew) who were STEM “stars”, 3 chose MIT (including when Stanford was in the mix) and 1 chose Harvard over Stanford So somebody does sometimes make a “contrary” choice.
It’s really hard to know what goes into someone else’s decision process. Sometimes it’s just the kids they know at a particular school and how that influences their perception of the student body there.
Realistically, strong performers at BS will end up with good placements. Maybe not their first choices but ultimately very good ones. And most kids who get into any of these schools will have the chops to make a great experience out of it.
Looking at Exeter, a family which makes $200,000+ can still get financial aid, so at least 52% at least are from families which make more than $200,000, or families which are in the top 9% by income. There are another 75 families with an income over $200,000 who get financial aid. Since 560 of the kids are in the top 9%, and aren’t getting aid, and another 75 kids, at least (there can be more than 1 kids per family attending Exeter, especially high income families), that means that at least 59% of the kids attending Exeter come from the top 9% by income.
According to their records, another 95 families which are receiving aid have incomes of $140K-200K. That is at least 95 kids who are in the top 20% by income. That means that at least 68% of the kids attending Exeter are in the 20% by income. There are a total of 292 families which make above $75,000 and are receiving aid, so that means that at least 79% of the students attending Exeter are in the top 43% by income.
Since some of those families likely have more than one kids attending Exeter, the percent of wealthy students is likely higher than these numbers.
So “more” lower, middle and even upper-middle kids is a relative term.
BTW, Andover claims that it has 13% from the bottom 57% by income, and if we figure out that they have similar upper boundaries on financial aid, that means that at least 53% come from the top 9% by income. So it seems to have a very similar income profile as Exeter.
@417WHB My idea of “pointy” of not a kid playing a varsity sport at any BS. It is more like to use a sports analogy, a kid playing a U level/High Level regional/national sport or academically a kid who is an outlier in some respect. For a musician, it would be a certain level and for an artist something else. Pointy kids are pretty rare in grade 8. Even by 12th grade, it would be someone who has reached an unusual level of achievement. So yes, that kid who goes on to get recruited for Div I football. But not the kid who is among the thousands doing something similar. Interest and participation IMO does not equal pointy. Your pointy definition sounds very different.
That’s the reason I think most 8th grade kids at BS fill a lot of buckets. Most of my kids friends fill at least 3 sometimes 4 ( and a single fill would be on a varsity team sport, etc.) So while schools do recruit a couple of kids for each sport, they also try to get kids who have other things to offere. Most do.
There are some kids who know early what they love. Not all, not most. But some. Neither is better or worse.
@MWolf Very good data and analysis regarding income level at BS. These environments do not mirror society at large at all. The income level and subsequently, expectations for these kids is very different. You can sometimes feel this on CC. Although I do think it’s gotten easier for kids from all income levels to consider BS, it’s not a level playing field based on your data set. Not to mention, it’s very difficult for a kid who hasn’t had 10 years of violin, club sports and expensive camps to compete at admission time. Makes me think we still have a long way to go.
@CaliMex Nice criteria list for making one’s own boarding school rankings.
Since my DD was the first in our family to apply to boarding school, we did use the Niche type rankings to essentially pick from the top 10-15 ranked schools (easy way to narrow list without visiting or studying the differentiating factors). In hindsight, I agree with most on this forum that rankings do not matter but rather finding the right “fit” is key. I was skeptical about finding/feeling the “fit” but fortunately my DD knew exactly where she wanted to be after the revisit days.
Question: Is there any study that compares boarding schools in terms of writing, critical thinking or analytical skills developed over time? Maybe PSAT 8 vs 10 vs their SAT score at the various BS? Grade are difficult to compare amongst BS. Ivy matriculation that dissect BS rankings based upon legacy vs athletic recruit/other hook vs URM or “none of the above”?