@DandSMom It would be great wouldn’t it, if there was a ranking that could count actual progress while at BS? Unfortunately, schools would have to buy into the idea and provide the data. Many great schools don’t even list SAT scores ( you have to ask). Also, I’ve heard from parents with older kids that even using a tool like Naviance (which tracks acceptances of kids from your school) is tough since it doesn’t count legacies and athletes ( many of whom are part of the actual data set).
@DandSMom - I think you can only get this info (a) anecdotally- talk to students or parents on tours, here, etc with very pointed questions about how writing is taught, or (b) devour websites to see if a school has a particular emphasis on writing.
It isn’t a way to rank, but there are definitely schools that emphasize writing - eg Loomis: it has a very strong writing program.
At the end of the day, though, I wonder if your kid’s growth re: critical thinking and writing is more teacher-dependent than school dependent. A great teacher in an average school can get a better result than an average teacher in a great school.
One of the reasons I have heard students/parents strive for GLADCHEMMS is that these schools generally have a higher chance of having great teachers (on average) compared with other BS due to better funding, bigger endowments, better facilities, etc.
My take away from this thread is that “fit” is important.
However, to me, the criteria selected to determine “fit” is more important (albeit such criteria will be subjective). Also, the emphasis on “fit” can be overblown for many of our kids who are well-rounded, very adaptable, resilient, mature and smart. I would think that most (if not all) kids who are excited to go to BS (and have independently made such decisions) share many of these traits.
If a child is into X sport and must play for Y school because of XYZ, then sure it makes sense.
However, most of the previously mentioned criteria such as:
- whether a school has a uniform or no uniform;
- big campus or small campus;
- big dorm/small dorm;
- competitive or not competitive (well, it is perceived as competitive because most kids at a “competitive” school (e.g., PA/PEA/Groton) are academically very smart with much higher SSAT/GPA compared to other schools and not because these kids are cutthroat and backstabbing their classmates);
- STEM vs writing;
- proximity to an airport;
- number of dorm parents;
- arts/music programs;
- rural/sub-urban;
- etc
shouldn’t be a critical factor for many kids who are viewing high school as a stepping stone to college.
These super, overachieving kids probably don’t care whether the car ride to the airport is 45 mins vs 25 mins (how often do they go home - 4 times a year?). Unless the kids are super pointy and need a very special XYZ, they will do equally well at most of the schools. [NOTE: However, I reckon, it will be more difficult to get better GPA at PA/PEA/Groton, etc then say at Loomis, Taft, NMH, etc. I also think that those kids who can make top 20% at PA/PEA/Groton can make 20% at other GLADCHEMMS school and vice versa. Thus, if a kid is not prepared to be academically challenged by a school and, more importantly, by their ultra-smart, great test-taking peers, then the kid should choose wisely and choose the school that is within his/her academic ability.]
This is because most BSs that are super selective have awesome sports/arts/music/drama programs, great teachers, beautiful campus, great dining hall (food), great most of everything. Most kids who choose small campus will outgrow them by the time they are in junior/senior years. Most kids who are hesitant about a big campus will grow into them. So, will a structured dining schedule be a huge factor? No. What about having that special Italian or CVS store to go to vs having very little outside food choices? No.
Thus, to me, apart from the question “can my DC thrive academically and have fun during high school away from home as a well-rounded, adaptable, resilient, mature and smart kid”, then many of the “fit” questions kind of go away - they are just part of growing up. Thus, if all things are relatively similar (great facilities, teachers, sports, music, art, etc), then why not choose those schools that have been traditionally (and in modern times) considered more prestigious?
Ask differently: If your well-rounded DC gets accepted by H/Y/P/S and also by other “great” schools such as Johns Hopkins, UofChicago, Northwestern, Georgetown, Brown, Cornell, Duke, etc, what would you/DC do?
All things being equal (financial aid, chance to play sports, music, dance, etc), it is difficult for me to imagine a student/parent selecting the “other” school over H/Y/P/S (as an example) because of the “generic” fit. Again, many can come up with an irrefutable example (such as my DC is so into STEM that he/she must go to MIT over H/Y/P, etc) but, for non-super pointy kids, I think most will choose H/Y/P over others (despite “other” schools can also provide incredible education (and maybe closer to home, etc).
So is a traditionally highly “ranked” BS (such as PA/PEA/Groton/SPS/DA) better than the rest of the BSs?
Harvard Admissions Office has admitted in court that it has (or had up until recently) two different buckets for applicants from BS: (i) PA/PEA and (ii) the rest. Yes - PA/PEA had a separate bucket and Harvard dedicated an AO to review applications just from those two schools. Wonder why?
BTW, my DC is first in our family to apply to BS so we have no affiliation with PA/PEA/Groton/SPS/DA, etc.
Most of the kids I know who had to leave BS for mental health issues were at the top of the heap academically at the (selective) schools they left. And social dynamics played heavily into their stresses, not academics.
Certainly they are in the minority, but none of their parents saw it coming, especially because they were killing it in the classroom.
Pay attention at those revisits.
@gardenstategal - thank you. IMO, those kids with mental health issues due to social dynamics would be prone to having such problems at any particular schools (eg, can’t get along with peers, too shy, hard to make friends, introvert, no self-advocacy, home sick, lonely, etc). They may have problems at small schools if they don’t find their clique. They may have problems with big schools because too big and “impersonal?” So I think it will be difficult to determine this at revisits unless schools disclose the number of mental health issues. Best to know your child really well whether DC is outgoing, had mental issues before, really ready for BS, self-reliant, ability to make friends easily, build support network, etc.
@marvelcomics
Almost everyone I knew in college had chosen that school over hyp so I guess I just have a totally different perspective.
Possibly the dedicated ao at Harvard is the result of sheer number of applicants from the two biggest/closest boarding schools. I’m not really worried since harvard would be my kids’ last choice at this point. Although my daughter did admit recently she supposed she could go “if I don’t get in anywhere else.” Plenty of kids have plenty of reasons and plenty of parents aren’t obsessed with rankings. I just don’t think everyone else is chasing the same thing you seem to be chasing.
@one1ofeach - To each his own. However, it does come off disingenuous to say Harvard is the last school in the world DC would go to…
@marvelcomics and @one1ofeach there was a time when my young, naive 9 year old wanted to go to Harvard. Now that he’s older, smarter and about to apply to college, Harvard is the last place he would want to go. And he’s one of the most genuine people I know.
I think people saying they want to go to Harvard is more disingenuous than if they say they want the tradition and prestige of Harvard.
@buuzn03 - and of course. Most people take into Harvard’s prestige and tradition (and positives and advantages that come with them). There is no denying that.
I am someone who turned down Harvard for a “lesser” school! The list of reasons included no degree in my desired major and no credit for foreign language study abroad. My mom might have been a little sorry that I robbed her of some good cocktail party chatter, but my parents were supportive. It all worked out fine. (And I turned Harvard down a second time for grad school, so clearly, that first decision didn’t impact admissions the second time round.)
About 5 years ago, I heard a department chair at Swat speak at a college counseling session about choosing Haverford over Harvard, a decision she felt changed her life. Her reasons were different from mine, of course, but no less valid.
It is true that not everyone is making their decisions the same way. To each his own.
As an aside, those kids thrived in the schools they transferred to. They were not “weird” kids, as you suggest, and nobody would have guessed at their outcomes although it all made more sense when the details came out.
@marvelcomics
How is it disingenuous? We have family members who attended so she’s heard the good and the bad. We’ve lived spitting distance all her life and she wants to go AWAY. Three of her closest family members chose other schools over Harvard so that concept is already in her head. She has, IMO, very valid reasons for not being excited about Harvard.
This all goes back to my very humble opinion, which I think is shared by many…the most reliable ranking of schools (and colleges) lies within. Don’t look to others to do this very important job for you.
I went to Harvard for grad school. It was a bad fit and I left. Harvard college (any of the Ivies) would have been a terrible fit for ChoatieKid, so none of them made his list regardless of their traditions or prestige. Because he would have turned them down had he been accepted, he didn’t apply to them. See how that works?
I’ve been following this thread casually, and it’s apparent that the OP has long decided that rankings, tradition, and prestige matter in the family’s consideration of boarding schools and colleges, so it seems we’re just sharing anecdotes and beating a dead horse at this point. The OP has been given a lot of good advice and examples from experienced posters and still maintains that school name and rank will be important factors in school selection for their family, and that’s OK. These ARE criteria for some, and as long as the OP understands where and how name and rank do and don’t matter, and I think we’ve helped with that, it’s fine to use them in their selection mix.
@ChoatieMom - thank you and all others who have contributed to this thread. It is nice to hear various views and vantage points.
We are not an IVY leaguer Nor a Wall Street / New England/NY new nor old money family. We live in Seattle and run a successful family business and have decided to send our DC to JBS/BS on FT. We know that the cost is not insignificant and the decision for DC to go to BS across the country (away from DC’s parents and younger siblings) is a huge sacrifice (both for parents and DC).
With such sacrifice, both DC and the parents view this journey as holistic journey but all the same as a part of the overall journey for DC to go to the best college (that best possible college couple be Ivy (or somewhere else)).
We know our child very well. DC is very resilient, flexible, makes friends left and right, ambitious and a very strong student (academics and EC). We don’t have family members who went to BS nor IVY league let alone other TOP schools.
Therefore, we don’t have family members nor friends’ stories to fall back on to decide (or eliminate schools). However, wherever DC went, DC succeeded. Because our DC’s traits and we have discussed pros and cons, we have applied to certain schools.
I can’t say that tradition and prestige do not matter at all as many seem to believe here. That is ok for us. To each his own. That is why my thread played in a narrow corridor of school rankings because DC doesn’t care much about superficial fit. DC is ambitious and wants to compete at the highest level and win. He is ok to lose. For our DC, DC at least tried and competed with the “smartest” and “the most competitive” kids.
Anyways, who know where our DC will be admitted to. We will find out on M10.
Honestly, if it means DC will be miserable at PEA/PA, then we are not dumb and shortsighted enough to psych those schools in DC. I don’t think many parents would want that for their DC. It’s just dumb.
However, if DC will generally fit anywhere, then why not also add prestige and tradition into the equation if everything else is the relatively same particularly if I am paying close to $300000 for four years. Just being honest here.
Even if @marvelcomics did not get anything from our responses (I’m not saying you didn’t, I’m just saying IF) there will be another CC follower who may have the same questions and/or concerns when making a BS decision. And reading this thread may prove very beneficial to them…
I just know that we had no clue about BSs before buuznkid1 and made stupid decisions based on the infamous acronyms/rankings/well-marketed schools etc. we also thought our kid was top of the top based on Test scores, grades, competitions, etc. and thought he would only be challenged at the “best of the best”. We were foolish. DS IS a brilliant kid but didn’t need any of that to challenge him. He’s absolutely flourishing in what some people on this forum have called a lesser or second-tier school-only because it’s not got the legacy foundation of some of these touted acronym BSs (use that abbreviation how you wish). He would’ve hated every minute in one of them had he gone, of that we are now
pretty sure.
He’s not looking at Ivies because he knows that that really isn’t what he’s looking for, although his ACT would indicate he’s a good candidate for any of them.
I’m gonna beat that horse one last time @ChoatieMom for future novices. Ranking lies within-don’t let the media dictate your top 10.
Ok. Whip drop. ???
@marvelcomics I’m going to chime in her as a H/Y/P/S/MIT graduate. First, I have found that most of the parents who push their kids to Harvard in particular are first generation. Many moved to the US and think Harvard is the end all, be all. It isn’t. But that being said, most of the parents who think Ivy league is the golden ticket are those who first step through their doors with their kid. Many want to brag to folks back home about their kids acceptance to an Ivy league. And they take pride in it as much as their kids winning some prestigious award. Their kids are under enormous pressure to perform. Many end up in careers that reflect this. Not all are happy. Like my kids friends Dad who ended up as a pediatric neurosurgeon and hated it and went on to become a stay at home dad. (Parents pushed that choice BTW).
For those who attended prestigious U ( and I would include far more than H/Y/P/S/MIT in this group), they realize that there are many paths. Most highly educated people have a lower ranked school in there somewhere. For some, it was a poor high school, or a state Undergraduate ( or OMG a Community college), or some combination. There are very few and I mean very few people who went to PA/PEA ( or equivalent) and then on to HYPS then into some amazing field. I worked in a knowledge industry for years ( think McKinsey type consulting and it was filled with highly educated folks-its was still rare to find the golden child who had life handed to them on a platter). Most people came from another country or had some aptitude (skill) that wasn’t easily replicated. Even if you are pretty wealthy and give your kids every opportunity, it’s still a crapshoot where they’ll end up. Life has a way of throwing everyone a curve.
The reason that I mention this is, you are unlikely to change your opinion about prestige and that IS fine. But what you setting up your child for is a bit like saying you have to plug your life into these certain vectors or isn’t it “worth” it. What is prestige for? To impress others in the job search? So you can tell your friends? So your son can tell his friends he went to X college at cocktail parties when he’s 50?
Our family would be pumped to have our kids attend many of the schools you reference as being second -choice. JHU for one, is an excellent choice for pointy kids like mine. I would never allow my kids to apply to my alma mater. They should find their own path. And I don’t believe in legacy. Not to mention these schools have changed.
If you are sending your kid to PA or PEA because they need something that is there, that’s great. But I think many smart kids are wary of the status seekers at every BS. They are annoying to other kids. My oldest tells me funny stories about various kids. And frankly, water finds its own level. The kids are BS are amazing ( I say as I sit here during an impromptu duet between my kid and friend one playing the piano and the other violin before breakfast).
I know the money is a huge factor but remember that many are spending the same amount of $ and they want the same things for their kids.
The only things I bristle at re: OP’s perspective is painting schools and kids with such broad brushes. There really are huge differences between schools that matter. Some bs do things better/different than PA/PEA. And even the most adaptable kids are unique in a way that makes schools not interchangeable.
We are all about optimizing success for our kids. Op defines that differently for op’s kid than I do mine. That’s cool. But what I don’t know is what is important to op’s kid. Hopefully that factors into the equation for his family.
Op knows the system as a jbs parent. Hopefully the jbs counselor has imparted their wisdom into this process and the bs’s applied to match that advice.
Fwiw, I come from a non-bs West coast family that is lousy with Ivy and Ivy-level college/grad school educations. I am pretty much the only one who didn’t go to a storied private university with ivy (lower or upper case). I have my own business and am doing pretty well for myself. It is maybe easier for me to swat away prestige as a goal, because I know people who are rich/successful/happy from prestige v non prestige schools. What makes a person successful is the character of the person, not the prestige (although no doubt there are opportunities available to kids at prep schools unavailable elsewhere- but those are available at more than just PA/PEA). Character can be enhanced or crushed in high school, so choose wisely.
Using op’s HYP analogy. They are not interchangeable. If an applicant got into all of them, one of the three would be the best fit, right? You wouldn’t just toss a coin. Maybe it is Princeton because of their dinner clubs, how they do their curriculum and major requirements, and the strength of a particular department. It is also possible that a fourth college has those desired qualities, too, so much so that if the student got into HY but not P that the student chooses that 4th school, even if it is not as “prestigious.” Happens all the time. To me, the inter-school differences are more important in high school.
Also - don’t minimize the impact of travel complications. Having to get a connection in an airport and arrange for ground travel creates loads of opportunity for dangerous chaos, esp in foul weather. Setting aside the times you as a parent travel to school (whether planned or emergency, or how just to pop in for a soccer game), each trip home is actually two trips back and forth. Times four years. That is 8x4=32 travel days. Over a month! On top of any other traveling your family does. Maybe you don’t have a choice coming from Seattle, but that is a lot of time/hassle/risk/money traveling. Knowing I can get to my kid same day if I need to is huge.
@CateCAParent I agree that a great teacher is key to any student’s learning. And great teachers can be found at many schools (average or top-rated by some ranking). So far my DD has been fortunate to have nothing but excellent teachers. She is happy and doing fine academically.
I guess I just like quantitative measurements (knowing there are caveats/pitfalls) and still find myself wondering about my DD’s writing/analytical skill development. It is hard from me to see from far. Time will tell, and she will probably tell me someday 
yes yes yes
things I wish I’d known could fill many threads…
@DandSMom - not having easy access to writing projects is probably the number one thing I wish I could change. Kiddo will share a finished product if I ask, but I am not part of the process (as it should be).