For this student who needs to optimize funding for college tuition and living expenses and is not applying to a top tier conservatory, I would very much recommend a summer of paid work in lieu of a festival adding to their expenses.
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You can look at performances for the colleges in which you are interested to get a sense of how you compare to students already in the program.
How would I see that as an individual? Aren’t most performances ensemble based
There are often solo performances or featured soloists. And even vocal ensembles should be able to give you a sense of repertoire and a general sense as to where/whether you might fit in.
You can search on YouTube for recordings of college opera productions and solo student recitals. Some competitions may also have YouTube access, especially YoungArts- you can watch the classical voice finalists from each year going back at least four years.
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How can I do that if I can’t access Youtube (school blocking system)?
Almost all of my schools have music experiences for non-majors. The issue is, for my goal I know I need more private training. I am not just looking for a music experience. I want one that will take me through the rest of my life. Music, right now, is a big part of my life, and it is my dream to pursue it. How do you get anywhere if you don’t pursue your dreams?
How good are you?
Are you very very good?
Many years ago. my kid had no previous vocal education or experience and couldn’t read music, but she auditioned at Berklee (voice) and got in.
But she was very very good.
But Berklee is very expensive, and even with help you’ll be deep in debt when you graduate. In a world where your ability to pay back or even down that debt will be challenging. This is why folks here are banging on the money aspect.
But being very very good might help.
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Dreams are important, but so is reality. People aren’t trying to crush your dreams, but they are trying to save you from a nightmare. College auditions are going to require travel. Attendance without parental financial support is highly unlikely bc you will not be able to get independent loans, only the small $5500 government ones.
I have a dd who will be an 11th grader next yr. She is bound and determined to pursue violin performance. We have limited financial means to support her goal. It means we have been searching for school that offer large merit scholarships as her primary filter. Without financial ability to attend, acceptances are meaningless. Far better to put your energies into realistic options.
I do have another concern, though. You say don’t worry about your auditions bc you have got that covered. Without a private voice teacher, I would recommend seeing if you can meet with someone outside of your choir director for honest feedback. My dd is also a vocalist who has been working with a private teacher for 4 yrs. So much work on lifting her soft palate and proper breathing that without training she would be doing incorrectly. Outside feedback prior to auditions would be beneficial and might offer guidance toward appropriate schools.
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I have been told I’m good by most peopel who have heard me sing. Only my immediate family says that I suck. I am not applying to Berklee. I am also looking at CUNY schools because they are much cheaper than anything else I’ve looked at. Financially, my best bet is Potsdam.
How would I get that in my situation.
I think the point is - it’s not people who need to tell you or your parents but paid professionals like your teacher or perhaps you can get a trial lesson with a local professional near you.
It’s likely more technical than, I’m just good but rather things you need to work on.
How will you afford the rents in NYC if you apply to a CUNY? Even campus housing is very pricey, far more than in upstate.
I worry you are putting all your energy into Potsdam - a school requiring an audition and that if you get into, you can’t afford.
I was just asking for help because I don’t have access to the resources everyone else has. After all, my parents are so strict. The CUNY totals total to less than Potsdam’s total amount. What else do you expect me to do, honestly? You are just telling me what I can’t do, which I can’t do anything with. What can I do? Where do you expect me to go to school? I can’t wait five years. I can’t live at home another five years. My parents will want rent, which I have no idea how much they charge. Do you really expect me to lose five years of potential experience because they can’t stand my voice? Honestly.
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A note for everyone: My question is not “Should I go to college"?” my question is “I have very little vocal education and am looking to go to school for music. My parents won’t pay for college. Where should I go to get the best experience at an affordable price?” Please do not tell me “Sorry, you can’t afford college. You should wait five years” My answer to that is: what do I do with those five years other than work? How can I forward my music experience living at home with a household full of people who can’t stand my music and are moving to Florida in two years? Thank you to those who are giving me advice I can actually use: @Midwestmom2022 @compmom @thisismynameOH @DadTwoGirls @MMRose @laheen @aquapt @Baribassmom @Mom2aphysicsgeek
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My husband had a similar scenario upon transitioning from high school to college. He did not feel he could live at home any longer due to conflict. He wanted to study music which his parents would not pay for as it was not a worthy degree in their opinion. He had little formal music training. He could not read music when he started music school which is unusual for an instrumentalist.
I will say that my husband was (and still is) an insanely talented bassist. That and his incredible drive made his journey possible. But it was a meandering path with lots of detours. And as I stated above it was much easier to work and pay as you go when he was in school decades ago.
But some practical thoughts on how he made this work:
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He worked almost full time from the day he turned 16. I don’t recommend this of course, because he tells me he basically slept through high school. But the point is, work and save early with summer jobs or part time jobs after school or on weekends.
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He attended a community college for most of his general credits. These were almost free back in the day and are still a bargain.
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He attended our state college system (CSU) in California. Excellent music programs at the least cost.
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He worked a lot through college. Probably too much as he needed to drop a semester here and there to work. The cool part is that he would get a union tour job and go on a road tour with various bands for 6 months and then come back to school. I do not recommend interrupting school as the curriculum builds from semester to semester and he ended up losing credits and adding overall time to his studies.
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He managed to not live at home but was able to stay at another relative’s home some of the years. Maybe this is an option for you.
Just some thoughts. You sound like an excellent student. You have passion for music. But I will say the path is not easy and will take a lot of initiative and drive on your part.
Wishing you the best.
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None of my relatives like me, but i may end up living with a friend.
Queens college (CUNY) does have an audition based music program. The area is not very expensive so you may be able find reasonable housing.
I do agree with the recommendations above to have a sample lesson with one of the professors at a school you can see yourself attending. They may be able to do this over zoom and generally there is no charge. If your teacher knows someone that is even better since they may be able to refer you. The other option is to find students already in the programs of interest and reach out to them (maybe one of them could give you advice on programs that would be a fit)
This is the cost of CUNY housing - if on campus. If you can live with a friend - great. I’m not trying to derail but letting you know you need a plan - the friend is a great path if you can get no cost or low cost housing that way - but then their location will dictate where you can attend school. You are hoping for a silver bullet - and short of a full ride one, there isn’t one.
CUNY will cost more than Potsdam all in - unless you have a place to stay. Note - they only include lunch and not breakfast/dinner in their cost estimates.
And I noted to see if you can get a sample lesson - plus use your current teacher to assess your ability. Of course, friends will tell you that you are talented and I’m sure you are - but in the academic sense, there might be focus areas you need to demonstrate in order to secure admission into a music program vs. the university at large., etc.
The other reminder - again - is there are many competitive full rides - but some at less competitive schools - so the Brinkley-Lane at East Carolina, Levine at UNC Charlotte as well as uber competitive like the Johnson at W&L, Belk at Davidson, etc. There are many more out there. Find a few and take your shot. Alabama A&M (an HBCU) has the Presidential - Applicant must have a High School GPA of 3.75 or above. These are the types you need to look for.
- Applicant must have an ACT Score of 28 or above/SAT score of 1310 or above
I wish you luck and I’ll no longer comment per your wish.
Honestly, when finances are the controlling factor, it simply comes down to beggars can’t be choosers. My name on these forums is from an older son who was extremely advanced in math and physics (he completed the equivalent of minors in both before he graduated from high school. He took 400 level electromagnetic wave theory his freshman yr in college.) It didn’t matter how competitive he was for schools. It mattered that he could afford to go. He ended up attending the University of AL for free. He had a great experience and now has a fantastic career. So, dreams are great, but they have to be tempered by reality.
I don’t know a lot of the schools on your list. Creating a list that is generous in merit aid is how we go about things. It doesn’t matter if they are the top. That actually doesn’t matter to us at all until after we have our affordability list . We include schools that have competitive scholarships, BUT only when we know they are actually competitive. (For example, one of our daughters was a Top Scholar at UofSC. She had multiple international awards plus a 3rd place award for a speech at an international Olympiad. 2 of her siblings would never have applied bc they had nothing that made them competitive. You have to be brutally honest with yourself and not what you cross your fingers and hope for.)
So, for our violinist, we are looking at inexpensive schools or schools where she might get merit. Violin is harder than voice bc so much is level dependent (kids can be at crazy high levels as teens, unlike voice which is still developing). That said, I am doubtful that you will be top competitive without ever having had a private voice teacher. Professionals are listening to singing much differently than people in general (same goes for violin!) They are listening to the slightest flat or sharp intonation, where in your mouth your sound is being formed, how are you breathing/phrasing, your vibrato, etc. So with all those things, looking at lower ranked schools gives you a double bonus—more likely to be competitive for merit and more likely to be a match for your audition (which means correct placement for developing your skills).
Look at schools that are known for offering merit $$ and see which ones might match up to your strengths. For example, our dd volunteers playing violin in a choir every week and at 2 different retirement homes/month. Outreach and volunteering are her love language. When I am looking at things for her, it isn’t leadership, but community impact (she has “resident” groupies who attend every time she is scheduled) and academic merit. Talent scholarships are her reaches bc those are so competitive.
FWIW, certain schools are just known to be cheap or are known to be generous. My kids who haven’t been super competitive have lived at home and commuted (they ended up with tuition scholarships, but not enough for housing).) Keep in mind that housing alone is between $10000-15000+/yr. Our dd that I mentioned who was a Top Scholar was awarded full tuition at Fordham but room/board were going to be $20000. Free in SC won without a backward glance.
A local community college if they offer music performance is a valid option for someone without formal vocal training. It could save you significant money and get you to a level that will transfer in at a better match level.
FWIW, you can be upset bc you are facing the unhappy reality that most kids do face. (College dream schools are the privilege of the privileged or those who qualify for grants.) But, thank the posters who are telling you the truth bc spring of your sr yr when you realize that $$ has to be paid and you don’t have it, you’ll be thankful if you have 1 viable option. (You only need 1 bc you can only attend 1 school.)
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I am really concerned by your comment that your parents plan to leave New York State in two years. That may mean that you will lose your in-state residency tuition discount for your remaining years.
I know there is a NY expert on this site but I can’t remember her name. Can someone ping her on behalf of the OP?
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