My Dad is Stepping OVER THE LINE!

HeavenWood · December 8, 2006, 8:56am

Pretty much my entire college list is his doing. I’ve tried to tell him that although I appreciate his involvement, it’s ME and not HIM that’s going to college. If I had my way, here’s what my college list would be:

American University
George Washington University
Muhlenberg College
Tufts University
Brandeis University
University of Pittsburgh
University of Rochester
Penn State - University Park

8 schools. Not too many. Not too few. 3 safeties, 4 safe to high matches, and just 1 reach (Tufts).

My dad liked this list. But, he decided to add THESE schools as well:

Cornell University
Haverford College
Johns Hopkins University
Drexel University
University of Pennsylvania

He made me apply ED to UPenn, a school which a) I’m not able to get into, and b) I don’t really want to go to. I live in suburban Philadelphia. I don’t want to go across the country or anything, but I want to go to college at least a couple hours away.

Two days ago, Dad talked to some representative at Drexel who said I’d get merit aid. Fair enough. That’s probably true. Dad wanted to test him. So now I’m applying to Drexel! I already got into two schools that are much better (for me, they’re better. I plan on double majoring in political science and English (or creative writing, if available), and Penn State and the Honors College at the University of Pittsburgh would much better serve my purposes than Drexel, which is good for tech, but NOT for liberal arts. He said “Don’t worry, you won’t have to go,” but the fact that I have to bug my teachers for yet another recommendation…ugh…I’m just sick of it!

Haverford, Cornell, and Hopkins. I won’t be getting in there. Haverford I’d never go to (#1, it’s leftist [I’m a centrist] and #2, It’s 10 minutes from my house). As for Cornell and Hopkins, even if I got in (which won’t happen), the cutthroat atmosphere would NOT serve my purposes. They’re great schools, don’t get me wrong, but what good is a quality education if you can’t utilize it properly?

Here’s my stats, to give a clue:

=====
Race - White
Religion - Jewish
State Residency - Pennsylvania

9th Grade
Non Western Cultures H - B
Biology H - B
English IH - A
Geometry H - B
Spanish IIH - B

10th Grade
Western Civilization H - B
Chemistry H - B
English IIH - A
Algebra IIH - A
Spanish IIIH - B

11th Grade
AP US History - B
Physics H - C
English IIIH - B
Precalculus H - B
Spanish IVH - A
AP Statistics - B

9-11th Unweighted GPA: 3.20
9-11th Weighted GPA: 4.12

10-11th Unweighted GPA: 3.20
10-12th Weighted GPA: 4.12

I know…absolutely the same…cosmic!

Extracurriculars:

Secretary of Philosophy Club

1st Trombonist in concert band, jazz band, symphonic wind orchestra, brass quintet, + 3rd Trombone district XI band in 10th grade, 1st Trombone district XI band and 2nd Trombone District XI orchestra, and 2nd Trombone region VI band in 11th grade (my little music hook, I suppose).

After-school tutoring to elementary school students.

Varsity Golf Team

SAT:
2180 (680 Reading, 710 Math, 790 Writing - 12 Essay)

SAT II:
760 US History
740 Math IIC
690 Literature

AP:
Statistics - 5
US History - 5

College Coursework:
I participated in the U of Penn pre-college program this summer. Took screenwriting, got an A, 3 credits…

Extra Information:
My high school does not rank as it is highly competitive. Probably my test scores (and the fact that my school does not rank) got me in. I’m definitely not in the top 5%…top 20% probably.

My 1st quarter grades were much better:

AP English Literature - A
AP Government - A
AP Spanish - B
Honors Astronomy - A
Calculus - A

I’ll keep this up for 1st semester, so with this “diamond surrounded by rough,” here’s what my unweighted / weighted should be:

9th-12th - 3.35 / 4.30

God…this…sucks…

Erin_s_Dad · December 8, 2006, 9:13am

Tough going. Hopefully your dad will work with you in the selection process a little more even-handedly instead of just telling you where to go. That could make for a miserable college experience.

HeavenWood · December 8, 2006, 9:20am

He said the ultimate choice is mine, but he’s making me APPLY TO ALL THESE SCHOOLS I WOULD NEVER GO TO in the process. Just a freaking waste of time…

marny1 · December 8, 2006, 9:42am

Just a thought- your dad may be trying for you to get the Merit aid from Drexel to use as a “negotiating” tool to get merit aid from other schools. (hey- I am married to a lawyer- the mantra is “negotiate/negotiate”)
It does sometimes work. Merit aid counteroffers work best with comparable schools.
As most of the other schools (IMO) are better rated than Drexel, I don’t think counteroffers may be available. I can tell you that U of Rochester has been fairly generous with merit aid, so it may not hurt having an aid offer from another school. As your dad already told you that you do not have to go to Drexel, I think his aim may be the merit award.
D is at Cornell- though she loves it (ILR program)- I really do not think Cornell is great for creative writing. Their communications Dept is linked to their Agriculture School (don’t ask!!)
Parents sometimes want to push their kids abit to see that all options are available. (That may be his intent for you to apply to Hopkings-Cornell etc.) I think that it is an ok thing for parents to do - but when it comes to the final decision (unless money is an issue) I think your needs come first. Good luck with dad!

Northstarmom · December 8, 2006, 9:44am

If you have to apply to colleges that you never would want to go to, either do something with your app that makes them reject you (such as writing an essay that would make you an autoreject) or send them a letter saying, “My dad made me apply. Please reject me.”

Believe it or not, students do both of these things in order to get rejections, and the colleges are happy to comply. The colleges don’t want to waste their time evaluating someone who doesn’t want to go there.

greennblue · December 8, 2006, 9:56am

It was wrong of your dad to coerce you into applying ED to a college you didn’t want to go to. You’ll have to hope Penn will reject you. Apply to your dad’s schools if you must, just to humor him, but in the end, stand firm. Attend the college you want.

Momwaitingfornew · December 8, 2006, 10:05am

Cornell is FANTASTIC for creative writing. It has one of the top MFA programs in the country and so has some strong writers on the faculty. I don’t know how that translates into an undergraduate education, however. Johns Hopkins also has an esteemed grad program in creative writing, although I understand that the undergraduates benefit more from grad student instruction than from the famous faculty. Drexel would be the worst place for a creative writer.

Heavenwood, I think your father thinks highly of you and your abilities, which is why he is pressuring you to apply to more competitive schools (except for Drexel). He may also be operating under the “old” standards of these colleges, from his own time when you would have a strong chance at these schools. That said, your stats are hardly shabby! It’s still possible that you will get into one or more of the reach schools.

Make sure you spend most of your time on the applications of those schools you really want to attend. You don’t want to dilute those applications just because you are expanding your list.

marny1 · December 8, 2006, 11:10am

Not to add more uncertainty- Did you check out Carnegie Mellon?? They have a BA in creative writing through their school of Humanities and Social Sciences.
It’s an interesting school with a real mixed bag of students. From engineering/drama/social sciences etc.
If Cornell hadn’t come through for my d, I think she would have gone to either U of R or CMU.

monydad · December 8, 2006, 11:13am

Like others said, Drexel may be for hypothetical $$$$ bargaining power. Or just a waste of an application.

The others, he wants you to add some reaches.

From what I’m looking at I think you made a pretty good list for yourself, actually.

I’d suggest a couple of approaches, which you can mix and match as desired:
a) just apply, what the hey. Maybe you’ll get in and then you can brag about it forever, wherever you decide to go.
b) Counter with other, equal reaches that you believe would actually suit you better than his selected reaches. (Notwithstanding that you’ve already done that with Tufts)
c) Do specific research on each school and present a concrete case for why the school is clearly unuitable for you.( eg creative writing only good for grad, poli sci dept is weak, you’ll get killed academically, etc.). Show specifically how your existing choices are superior for you than these.

I tried to get my daughter to consider some different schools too, but I’m not going to force her because ultimately I think it will be a waste of my time; she wouldn’t go anyway. And if she did, and it didn’t work out great for her, she would blame me forever.

Doesn’t mean I’m right, though. Clearly your dad means well.

lolabelle · December 8, 2006, 11:51am

Heavenwood:

I’m guessing Tufts is your first-choice. (Of course it is… j/k) At least your dad isn’t telling you to not apply there. I am, however, quite surprised that he “made” you apply ED to a school you don’t really want go to. Are you hoping for a rejection or deferral? Will you be at least somewhat happy with an acceptance?

OK, let’s say you don’t get into UPenn ED. At that point, you can either apply to Tufts ED II and put this all behind you (if you get accepted). If you don’t want to do that, why not appease him (and maybe even give yourself some more options) by doing what Monydad suggested — “Counter with other, equal reaches that you believe would actually suit you better than his selected reaches.” If JHU and Cornell are schools you DEFINITELY WOULD NOT go to if you got in, then explain to your father that it will merely be a waste of application fee money. Also explain to him exactly why you would never go there. Next step is to think of other reach-y schools that interest you nearly or just as much as Tufts does.

We might be able to help you come up with some such schools. Want to tell us what you like about Tufts so much? Lots of people who like Tufts really like places like Brown, Dartmouth, Amherst, and the like.

jrpar · December 8, 2006, 12:07pm

Haverford is “leftist”?

xcutioners · December 8, 2006, 1:06pm

tell your dad that he’s wrong…

You really don’t have a 50/50 chance of Ivy Leagues… more of 15/85 chance

shoebox10 · December 8, 2006, 1:38pm

well, i’d say spend your most time on the apps for the schools you want to apply to…you can still do the other apps, and if they arnt great, then it doesnt matter, you dont want to go…however, it doesnt hurt to have extra schools, especially at that caliber…
although, the Penn ED sucks…cross your fingers you dont get in…otherwise, it IS Penn, and there are plenty of people that would love to go there, and it is Ivy League…you can always transfer, and transferring from Penn with a decent GPA (3.0+) could land you just about anywhere

sax · December 8, 2006, 1:48pm

There still might be time to ask Penn to consider your application RD instead. This will give you some time to work with your father. I can think of nothing worse than getting into Penn ED, your dad jumping up and down with excitement and you bursting into tears of saddness and resignation.
I do know it is nice to have a few choices come May as you still have a lot of growing to do in these next 6 months.

I believe there is a chance of you getting in ED. Penn likes to accept ED kids because they want kids who they know want Penn (paraphrasing here)

lolabelle · December 8, 2006, 2:22pm

Yes, you could rescind your ED UPenn app and ask to have it be moved to the RD pool though that might hurt your application in the RD process. However, it seems you don’t really want to go to UPenn anyway so you might not mind taking that risk… which might be worth it anyway, because I agree with Sax, if you get in and you’re unhappy about it, that will be really depressing.

marny1 · December 8, 2006, 2:44pm

I am going to agree with sax & lola- I sort of figured you probably would not get into Penn ED- but hey you never know. 
I think Penn ED decisions will be coming out next week, so you really may need to do something soon.
Can you speak to your GC on Monday??. In the event you do get in ED, GC may be able to “back you up” by saying you were a bit pressured to apply ED because of dad. I"ll assume dad is paying the tuition so you don’t want to get him too upset- but at the same time you shouldn’t be forced to go to a school that you do not want to go to. 
And If we parents on board can be of any service-let us know. 
Good luck.

HeavenWood · December 8, 2006, 3:09pm

Yeah, Haverford is extremely liberal.

Also, I know Cornell and Johns Hopkins are great for creative writing. However, the ENVIRONMENT (ie: cutthroat competitive) isn’t suited for me.

URochester is my #1 at the moment (with Pitt Honors as my #2). I haven’t seen Tufts, and besides, it’s a bit of a reach for me, so I don’t want to get my hopes up. If, on the off-chance I get in, I can check it out then.

With Penn, I suppose I would be ok there, but I’m not passionate about it. When I visited Rochester’s campus, I fell in love. I took a class at Penn during the Summer, and I don’t dislike it the way I disliked, say, Boston University, but, still, I wouldn’t feel…right…if you know what I mean.

And, oh yes, my Dad is a lawyer…I guess that would explain it, but I don’t think I’d get merit aid from Rochester…it’s been assessed as a “match” for me.

Oh, and my Dad told me “from some unknown inside source” that the handriting is “on the wall” and that I don’t need to worry. Penn doesn’t really reject most of its ED applicants, so I figure I was deferred. That’s fine by me.

I have just breathed a sigh of relief.

I’m just worried that I’ll alienate my teachers by asking them for another recommendation for a school that I would never, never, never go to…I mean, with Hopkins and Cornell, I’d at least take a look, but Drexel? For a liberal arts student?

I also have a feeling that the pressure won’t stop here. On the OFF, OFF chance that I get into Hopkins, Cornell, or Haverford, I have a feeling my Dad will start pressuring me like crazy to attend one of the three…he’s a little overzealous with prestige and US News rankings…

marny1 · December 8, 2006, 3:32pm

I had a feeling your dad was a lawyer- Anyway maybe you could substitute CMU with Johns Hopkins?? When we did the “sleeping bag weekend” at CMU a few years ago, it seems alot of kids who apply to U of R also apply to CMU. 
As you can get a BA in creative writing at CMU, it might suit your needs.
And don’t worry about the teachers. They probably have a pretty “canned” recommendation that they used for the other schools. They probably photocopy one they already prepared.

HeavenWood · December 8, 2006, 3:34pm

I looked into Carnegie Mellon, and it’s an excellent school, but a bit weak in the social sciences and English. Yes, it offers a BA in creative writing, but, from what my counselor tells me, UPitt Honors would be much better.

marny1 · December 8, 2006, 3:50pm

Ok- now let’s talk Cornell. I know the stereotype is “cutthroat competition”. But my d’s experience is quite different. Yes- the kids work very-very hard. But my d never felt she was competing with her fellow classmates. I think the “competition” often comes from within.
Most of the kids who go to Cornell are very high achieving students who want to succeed. It’s that self “inner” need to do well. No one is pushing her. That discipline and seriousness to do well in school was always there. Yes even in her earliest school years. (OK maybe not kindergarten.)
The atmosphere is not for everyone. But if you are hard working, enjoy the academic challenge, and being in an environment with other hard working students, then do not overlook Cornell. Trust me- they all party hard on the week-ends (well maybe not engineering or pre-med) but the other kids do have fun on Fri and Saturday - but they are all back in the library studying Sunday afternoon.

My Dad is Stepping OVER THE LINE!

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