<p>Someone told me that I should try and get opinions from other parents, since parents have a more realistic understanding of the world. I made a thread in the college life CC thread, and was wondering what parents had in mind about my dilemma.</p>
<p>Hello, so I am a first generation Pakistani male who has found a lot of hindrance keeping a medium between a traditional life and a modern one. Throughout my life, I have gone back and forth with myself to decide which lifestyle I would adopt for myself; However, it isn’t just as simple as “choosing” for myself. I come from a very strict, orthodox Pakistani family and my father expects me, as the oldest son, to uphold and even fortify the traditional Pakistani paradigm that he has taught me in the hopes that I would serve as an exemplification to my younger brother and cousins. I have to admit, I have given in to all of his demands faithfully as a good son in the hopes that he will love me. I am a rising senior in high school, and I have never been to a school dance, I have never drank alcohol, I almost don’t do anything socially unless it is school related, and the only time I smoke every week is with my father and family smoking the family shisha. I do very well as a student in high school, and to be honest, I would expect to be any parents’ wet dream; I never say no to any task my parent’s ask of me, I do house chores, I listen to their every qualm and demand. However, my father has even higher expectations of me. He wants me to get an arranged marriage and before my sophomore year, I agreed. I had no other choice…</p>
<p>until I met my girlfriend. I have been going “out” ( although I feel wrongly ashamed when I use this expression) with her for 2.5 years. I met her as a sophomore in high school, and she was a senior in high school. She is Indian, and she understands our customs and traditions to a good extent, although one major difference is that her family is socially liberal even by western terms. She goes to college very close to me as a pre-med student and is very intelligent. I am sure if anyone on these CC boards brought home a girl even remotely similar to my girlfriend to their parents, their parents would be happy. My parents, on the other hand, would disown me. I am scared that my father has a leash on my neck because he is going to be paying my college tuition. So I figured that it would be smart to tell him after college. I am not saying that this girlfriend is the one I have my heart set on, I am not saying I will marry her, although I know what I want for myself, and it doesn’t include having an arranged marriage. This girl I am with now, has opened my eyes to a better life, a little less constricted by family burdens and expectations. I feel as though I am almost in a “dangerous” situation. I have never been open to anyone about this relationship, and I need to tell my father within the next few years so that he will accept me and this same girl or another girl that I am with. I cannot have my whole family disown me. What can I do to convince him that we live in America, and not in Pakistan?</p>
<p>I think you need to seek out advice from a mature person who clearly understands both cultures. Many parents on this forum do have very high expectations of their children. However, the idea of arranged marriages is going to be unfamiliar to most posters, including parents, on College Confidential. </p>
<p>I can’t claim any such understanding. But I might begin by trying to understand the underlying social function and spirit of this tradition and why it is very important to your father. What need is he trying to satisfy? Why did he bring his family to this country in the first place? Is he committed to remaining here? What does he want for you and his grandchildren 10 or 20 years into the future?</p>
<p>Are there any other relatives in the picture who can help you see through this?</p>
<p>Wow - I really feel for you. To some extent I have known families like yours (even my own). My grandmother disowned my Aunt because she married someone Jewish. You have a very tough decision to make and this must be very stressful for you. You could wait until college is finished to tell him, avoiding any $$ and problems until after you graduate. You could seek out help - are there any Pakastani organizations that could help or mediate the situation - maybe an elder or someone respected within the community? If you do tell him & he does disown you - can you turn to any family members or school counselor to help support you, if your family disowns you, you would be considered independent, maybe qualify for aid. I know that may be the least of your worries - I think the emotional lose will be harder. Or you could just go along with the arranged marriage. I recently read the book Infidel which went into some of these things.</p>
<p>Coming from European culture, and a grandmother who was disowned for marrying a Catholic Austrian, not a German Lutheran, I can tell you that there is only one thing for you to do. You CANNOT reason with your parents nor will anyone mediating help. You just have to play the game. Keep things hidden. Go AWAY to college (harder for them to know what you are doing) and when home, go out with your girlfriend in a group of Indian and Pakistani friends and then after you graduate from college, do your own thing. Fight the arranged marriage situation by saying you won’t even consider marrying until after college and grad school if that is what you desire. And your focus right now is getting through school and getting your career going. Then, you can deal with that.</p>
<p>NP1 – just call me chicken, but thats who I am.</p>
<p>Stall stall stall. Can you tell your father that you will work very hard in college, and a wife would be distracting? That you would be able to fetch a better wife on the arranged marriage market (please dont throw up as you read this), if you had a college degree, were in medical school [insert whatever your dreams are]?</p>
<p>As others say, are there any family members who can plead your case (even for a stall).</p>
<p>I agree that step one is to stall. You should finish your college education before getting married. After that you will be better able to be independent and you can decide where you want to go from there. I know some very happy couples whose marriages were arranged by their parents. I actually do understand that it can work, though it’s not what I would want. Good luck.</p>
<p>Will your dad listen to your iman ? (assuming you are Muslim, sorry if you are not). </p>
<p>I had known a great many young Americans of Pakistani descent and they are going into arranged marriages. The Indians are the same way. Arranged marriages does not mean you have to marry someone you don’t like on sight. From the way I was told, you can reject candidates the matchmakers present. </p>
<p>However the issue is that you already have someone you like of your own choosing and I assume she is of a different religion not just a different ethnic group (if I can say that). </p>
<p>Good luck ! It’s hard being the oldest and held to be an example for the younger ones. It is a hard burden to bear. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if you can choose a different path you will be a good example for the younger members of your clan - I would imagine they feel the same conflicts as you do and don’t have a way out. If you choose a different and harder way from the one your dad prescribed for you you will make it much easier for your younger siblings and cousins. I imagine it will be of a high cost for you personally in the beginning.</p>
<p>NC1, I may be wrong, but the fact that your girlfriend is Indian and you are Pakistani is potentially a huge issue for your family as well, right? I’m with the posters that encourage you to go away to college (or at least live on campus if you go to a local school) and keep this from your parents until you graduate. Heck, if you stall long enough, maybe a younger sibling will break the tradition first and take some of the pressure off you… Not saying it is fair to the younger siblings, but unless you are seriously ready to marry someone NOT of your parents choosing (ie, you have found the person and have your job/career/living situation established), I would avoid this fight for now. </p>
<p>One other thing to think about is looking around among the Pakistani women you meet to see if you do meet someone acceptable. That could be a compromise with your parents (both families might be willing to “arrange” a marriage if you are staying within your culture, yet you get some say in the matter).</p>
<p>Do you currently know other Pakistani girls who are not related to you Do you generally like them? If you are open to the idea of marrying a Pakistani woman (of your choosing), try to find a college where Pakistanis are not an extreme minority.</p>
<p>You may not believe me, but there are young men in your situation who have changed their minds. Initially very opposed to arranged marriages, they’ve ended up agreeing to them a few years later. </p>
<p>But, I would tell your dad AFTER you’ve left for college that you’ve decided to wait until after college to marry. You may want to come up with the idea that your “dream school” is a very rural college where there’s no married student housing and no Pakistani community. Then argue that it would be unfair to expect a young wife to have to live in such a place. There are many things you want to do in college and being married would eliminate them. If you are truly an outstanding student, start talking about things like Rhodes scholarships–open only to the unmarried. Start talking about doing scientific research in the developing world where it just wouldn’t make sense to take a young wife. Adjust plans according to your abilities and dreams–just pick a few that your parents will approve of that just aren’t feasible if you are married. Maybe you can even argue that you’re more likely to get a “good deal” in an arranged marriage if you have more to offer in terms of accomplishments. </p>
<p>In the meantime, this may be silly, but…can you get your parents to read some of the books about the children of South Asian immigrants? You may have read The Namesake. I just finished reading a short story collection by the author. There’s a lot in them that might explain to your parents how difficult the idea of an arranged marriage is for you–and, indirectly, how much more likely it is to fail than if you were doing the same thing in Pakistan. </p>
<p>I’ve always been a reader and found that I could talk about “hot button” issues with my kids much more easily if we did it through the medium of books. Maybe that approach will work for you. </p>
<p>Remember too that your parents love you. You may think that they will cut you off completely if you do not do what they wish. In truth, this very rarely happens. Again, books may help you. Without it being personal to you, you can talk about how the immigrant parents acted in the books. </p>
<p>I do not know your culture, there are better advisors out there. From general prospective, kids do not change parents, they can only adjust to them and appreciate the life that parents provide for them. I would not announce anything. Just go to college, appreciate your family paying for it, see what happen after, who you meet and staff. You are not faced with immediate arrangements of marriage or anything else. Why to plan your whole life so much ahead? You are putting yourself thru artificially created stress, lighten up, enjoy.</p>
<p>I agree with the parents advocating the stall technique. Cultural rules seen as being threatened tend to make people really dig in their heels and refuse to be flexible.</p>
<p>I am assuming you are not ready to try to marry this girl now, so save the fight until you are actually ready to take a stand. Keep family harmony in the interim.</p>
<p>One interesting question for your Dad, when the time comes, should you choose to not want to go the traditional route. Why did he bring you to America and expose you to American culture if he wanted you to remain a traditional Pakistani? Without being disrespectful and hostile, this is a valid question. If the traditions were #1 in importance, why leave?</p>
<p>If there is something valid for which the trek to America was worthwhile, then Dad has to be open to considering that benefit brings other baggage along with it.</p>
<p>On the other hand, stories about families trying to control their children are so very offensive when we are 15-20, yet at 40-50 one can at least begin to understand the logic behind the attempt to control. The senior family member believes in their heart that following path XYZ is going to provide a better life for their child and believes they, the senior family member, know more than the child.</p>
<p>When you are fully an adult, college graduate, etc, you can decide which path you wish to follow.</p>
<p>Is the girl a Hindu or Christian? If so then you have a nuclear war potential. If she is also a Moslem, then you have relatively easy job. Perhaps, you could have the girl ‘drop’ in for some trivial reason and she how your parents react.</p>
<p>You do have a tough job. One of our closest friends are of mixed religion and they both had a tough time with their families when they got married. They just did it - hell with the family. In their personal lives they also don’t have any conflicts. They both let each other follow their own religious customs.</p>
<p>I think your best bet now is to stall the marriage. You are too young anyway. Once you or the girl can support both of you, you can be more forceful and direct with your parents. It will not be easy. It will also hurt feelings of lot of people, but sometime you have to stand up for you. It is your life -</p>
<p>I was shocked to learn on a 20/20 show that 60% of marriages globally are arranged and that they have the lowest divorce rate by far.</p>
<p>They actually had scientists and relationship experts and they talked about current ads placed in India for partners. The bottom line is that many believe that the pragmatic way these people were choosing–similar backgrounds, very specific talents and skills, level of looks–were more likely to produce a long term union than attraction.</p>
<p>I agree that you should stall for now. Experience college life and all that has to offer. You may feel differently later down the road. Your girlfriend may feel differently as well. Right now everything is new to you. The one thing that I would suggest would be to somehow let your dad know that you want to wait on marriage until after your are done with school, because he may be looking for someone now and he may have his heart set on some potential partner for you.</p>
<p>Just a side note: I work with a lovely Indian doctor with 2 beautiful daughters who were raised western culture, but also has maintained their Indian culture traditions. The first daughter chose her own husband and the marriage ended terribly. So the second daughter decided that it was OK to have an arranged marriage, because her father was afraid that she would have a similar outcome. At this point she was already graduated from medical school, so it was much later on. She met her mate and was allowed to date him for a while to see if this would even be a match and it actually worked out. I attended their wedding 2 years ago and they are very happy.</p>
<p>I wish I could pick the mates for my kids too…it would save numerous heartaches,time and disharmony among our family. With all this, none of them is even married yet.</p>
<p>OP, I agree with everybody that the plan is to stall and tell your father that you need to concentrate on your studies and then you have to work on your career so you won’t be ready to marry till after 30. (At least, that’s what my S told me.) By that time, he may be so anxious that you can probably marry anybody you wish. ;)</p>
<p>My parents were arranged marriage. My mother only got a peek of my father before they decided on the engagement. After engagement they were allowed to go out a few times. They are still happily married.</p>
<p>A Chinese girl I knew was going out with an Indian man for 2-3 years. One weekend he said he was busy because he had visitors from India. It was his bride to be and her family. That was that. My friend said that he never mentioned it once about having an arranged marriage.</p>
<p>You will set a precedent. So think it over and decide which approach you prefer, then follow it. Frankly, I’m surprised that so many have advised you to stall. If you strongly feel you should choose your own mate, then at some point you need to communicate that. If dad is adamant that he will choose for you, then eventually you may have to break with him, at least for a time.</p>
<p>My grandfather eloped with my grandmother because he loved her and his family had picked out for him someone from the old country. He and grandma moved across the country for the better part of a year; grandma called it her honeymoon. They had a good marriage.</p>
<p>His elder brother went along with the family choice. and in fact arranged his oldest son’s marriage. Perhaps it is coincidence, but that is not the educated half of that family.</p>