<p>Parenthetically, I think the idea of not ever allowing a child to ski or play tennis because it might interfere with their ballet is over the top. But then I think a lot of sports focus is over the top.</p>
<p>I have tried not to comment on this thread, because while I disagree with the negative labeling language, I well understand the sentiment behind it.
My husband is much less critical/demanding than I am- and more fun. ( of course, when I asked him to supervise their homework- so I wouldn’t have to get into it, this was his version. " Are you done with your homework?-* yes- of course! *, no- I don’t need to see it-O.K., let’s go rollerblading!") :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I have known families who have given up a lot for their children’s interests.
Truthfully, when both of our kids volunteered with the zoo ponies and at summer camp, we scheduled family outings around their commitments for years.
Something that I had problems with- but most of the time, they were so dedicated, I felt like I didn’t have a choice.
My oldest was also interested in ballet and originally took lessons with Pacific Northwest Ballet because that was where a friend attended. ( made carpooling easier- although her friend dropped after the 1st term)</p>
<p>However- I remember being startled by the behavior of the older students ( very Ballachine influenced at the time- i.e. " thin is in- smoking kills the appetite") and was hesitant about how far to allow my daughter to continue her lessons. </p>
<p>When she auditioned for and was given a role in their annual production of * The Nutcracker*, I had an easy out, because we had just started going away for Christmas and their rehearsals started in October!</p>
<p>I told her that if she didn’t accept the part, she could get her ears pierced. 
( i originally wasn’t going to let her until she was 13)
So we kept going to the mountains, and she found another interest to pursue.</p>
<p>The skills learned in ballet, can also be applied to other forms of activity and dance- many, many kids of dance. Both my kids did track in high school as well- , they weren’t going to get scholarships from it, but track has a team emphasis more so than ballet I think, despite being more of an individual sport, and perhaps that is more of what she is looking for.</p>
<p>The camaraderie of a team can be very positive , I know that the teams that my younger D has been on since she was 7, have really helped make her into the wonderful person she is today.</p>
<p>( I would also think that the quadriceps and balance developed from doing hurdles will be great assets to other sports/forms of dance)
:)</p>
<p>We have two kiddos too. DS…the older of the two…is closer to me (mom), and DD is closer to her dad. Typically when DD has a problem she will call her dad and I hear about it second hand. BUT DS does the same with me. It balances out.</p>
<p>Re: not doing one activity when pursuing another…depends on the activity, the level of commitment for the child.</p>
<p>DS is a musician. He could NOT do any sports that might injure his hands. In addition, he had instrument lessons and ensemble rehearsals when his school had sports practices and games. In 10th grade, he had to make a choice. HE thought he could do it all. We told him…nope. You can’t be in TWO places at the same time. Just can’t do it. He chose his music over continuing on the sports team.</p>
<p>DD was in a prestigious children’s chorus until the end of 10th grade. In 9th grade, she became a member of the school swim team. The conflicts became overwhelming in 10th grade. For some reason, it all worked out in 9th. Again…she had to make a choice. She spoke to the choir director and took a leave from the choir until from Feb to end of March (the conflicting times) so that the choir would know she wasn’t going to be available for performances during that time. This was mutually agreed upon. DD made the choice…but WE had to point out the necessity of doing so. </p>
<p>In both cases, the kids were NOT happy when they had to make this kind of choice…but they did.</p>
<p>And as an added thing. BOTH had to give up skiing during the years they DID do a sport at school during the winter months. Their school team policies prohibited them from doing another activity where they might become injured thus making it not possible to do the school sport.</p>
<p>Music is really hard- while oldest was in choir/musicals, she didn’t play an instrument.
The most she had to do was try and follow a non dairy diet with upcoming performances ( under the suggestion of the director)</p>
<p>Younger D attended a high school where music was a big deal- ( reknowned orchestra and jazz band), some of her friends from soccer were also in the orchestra- plus I believe they intend to make it their vocation. But still couldn’t give up soccer and they had to undergo the ire of [Tsut!](<a href=“http://www.garfieldorchestra.org/Tsutakawa/index.php”>http://www.garfieldorchestra.org/Tsutakawa/index.php</a> )especially when the soccer team was in the playoffs and there were holiday performances to attend.</p>
<p>( these kids are so amazing- my E.C.s in high school included watching re-runs of Gilligans Island and Love American Style)</p>
<p>Music isn’t any “harder” than any other EC that takes time and commitment. Sometimes kids just get to a point where they can’t do it ALL. And those same kids might THINK they can. Thus…the serious discussions with the parents who see the “big picture” (which usually includes endless carpools…and parent time…it’s sometimes NOT just about the kids). Personally I refused to drive my kids to TWO different ECs that happened on the same day at the same time…in different places. BUT my kid never got that connection until I sat down and explained it.</p>
<p>Where did your D tell you she was when she didn’t answer the phone at home? If she lied or intentionally misrepresented her whereabouts, especially with your H’s blessing, that is not acceptable behavior, IMO.</p>
<p>I used the word “rebellious” to be more facetious. Just came back from the mall…most of the stores are closed due to a power outage. We still did enough damage at another location.</p>
<p>D2 has been trained as “professional” since she was 12, 15-20 hours a week. We’ve had many people to tell us how talented she was. At the same time I also knew she would never be a NYC Ballet material. If she wanted to, she could be dance professionally at some second or third tier companies. As most parents with kids who are involved with any ECs which require 10-20 hours of training, unless a kid truly loves it you couldn’t drag him/her to it day in and day out.</p>
<p>Just a note about ballet training. If a person is trained properly there shouldn’t be that many injuries. D2 has had very few, just sore toes. Their pediatricians have told the girls often that ballet is the best thing for girls. Not that many ballerinas have hip problems later in life, the reason is they build up bone density. On the other hand, their bodies are trained to behave a certain way - their ankles are very strong in a very still position in order to be en point, the ankles do not have the flexibility to go side to side, hence not good for skiing or tennis. H used to be a varsity swimmer, and he was also not allowed to ski. </p>
<p>What is going on with D2 right now is a teaching moment, for her and for myself. I would like her to come out of it with a sense of obligation to other people involved, integrity, conviction, ability to make choices and know she couldn’t have it all. </p>
<p>I think thumper1 know what I am talking about. She has two kids who are very dedicated to their music.</p>
<p>When I asked H about the shoes and if he had thought about there maybe conflict between those 2 activities. He gave me a puzzled look. I am not sure how much thought he gave it. That is why I am in charge of the family’s social calendar.</p>
<p>roshke - H works out of home, so he usually picked up the phone when I called. Twice when I called I asked for D2, H said she was she at school, and I just assumed she was working on a project at school. When I asked why she has been staying late, H said, “Oh, she is at the track practice.” Most nights I don’t see D2 until very late because of ballet. It is another concern of mine if she’ll be able to keep up with her schoolwork. Her classes are all very intense and require a lot of homework.</p>
<p>LOL, your H sounds either pleasantly clueless or cultivated a major EC in Acting in his youth. Either way, he’s off my bad list as I follow this story. </p>
<p>Speaking of acting and “having it all” my S believed he had to choose between the arts and sports prior to 9th grade. He was offered a good movie part in late August, and before I turned around he had called the coach to remove himself from soccer practice which happened during the same two weeks. </p>
<p>The movie turned out to have a big soccer scene, in which they called for multiple retakes, so he got to play, sort of. But I think your situation is much higher stakes in terms of hours committed up to this moment. I also recognize your principle of using this as a life lesson to teach commitment to a group of performers/athletes; it’s not just about what your D wants. </p>
<p>My concern is that sometimes the standard for every h.s. EC is set as if the kids involved are all heading for careers, when in fact they may just want to make the activity a part of their lives, right then or in the future. The teachers and coaches might even hope for that one student who will redeem their own lost opportunity to be a super-performing professional. Some teachers/coaches are philosophical about their charges; others a bit nuts.</p>
<p>In return for all that, the structure of both performing arts and sports is sometimes so draconian in schedules that students are told by pumped-up teachers/coaches they must choose. Something is a bit wrong with that picture, particularly for parents who do believe in making strong contracts and ethical commitments to teachers and teammates. The idea of taking a lesser part and saying so in advance is one that my kids certainly used throughout h.s. In fact it’s on the audition card to indicate level of participation, agreed to in advance: will take a lead; will take a support role; chorus only. By circling one, as the teacher auditions for the performance, she already knows what she can offer without wrecking the student’s other commitments that season. As well, some are good at setting up schedules to rehearse a few actors, while others post rehearsal schedules that require all present at every rehearsal, regardless of their tiny role. I’ve seen a wide range of understanding on this point. </p>
<p>It’s all just a bit too rich for my blood, and brings down some families trying hard, such as yours, to do the right thing as you interpret “right” to be. No easy answers, just saying I recognize the web you are negotiating and that some may not be all your family’s doing, either.</p>
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<p>I completely agree. I think it’s awful that a kid just can’t play an instrument, play a sport, dance, etc. these days.</p>
<p>That’s not so bad , then. I do think it would have been better to discuss openly, though. Not necessarily to get your approval, but to share.</p>
<p>paying3tuitions, you have echoed my thoughts exactly.</p>
<p>From oldfort’s description, I think my d’s ballet experience (and ability) is very close to her DD’s. But my parental viewpoint was more like yours - I always felt more in the role of trying to hold my kid back from overcommitting, of avoiding that temptation to label a 12 year old as “pre-professional” and agreeing to the obligations that go along with it. So I was always setting limits – for example, telling the head of the ballet studio that I didn’t care if she wanted all students in my d’s level at the studio 5 days a week, I was only allowing my daughter to dance 4 nights. (I had this crazy “rule” in my head that at least one evening a week had to be kept unscheduled for family time or a social life).</p>
<p>I knew that I was hurting my kid’s nonexistent chance at pursuing a professional career in ballet … but I don’t think my kid ever seriously wanted that route. I was appalled when she was involved in gymnastics early on at the level of pressure there – and we are talking about age 6 — and it was pretty easy for me to see that pushing a 6 year old to do a hand-spring over a vault or a back walkover on the balance beam was good recipe for disaster if the kid wasn’t quite ready for whatever skill they were being “tested” on. So I was sad that there wasn’t a different avenue than competition for little girls who are very, very good at gymnastics but just want to do it for fun — but kind of glad when my daughter quit gymnastics at age 8 or so precisely because she didn’t want to compete. </p>
<p>I didn’t see my kid as a “dancer” or a “gymnast” – I just saw her as a growing child who needed the freedom to explore various activities on the way to adulthood. And I saw my role as a parent in part as to protect her from the pressures to do more than is appropriate for a <em>child</em>, and to avoid confusing the concept of <em>childhood</em> with <em>professional development</em>.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl…kids CAN do music, plays, sport…all of it. BUT they need to know what the schedules are. The molre “committed” they are to one particular thing and the more their lives revolve around that…the less time they will have for other things. Choices choices. It doesn’t happen when they are 10 but it might happen for some by the time they are in high school.</p>
<p>As Oldfort noted, my kids were extensively involved with music ECs that were very very time consuming. Both studied two instruments, were in youth orchestra, were in chamber groups, played in civic theater orchestras, sang in the prestigious children’s choir, AND were in their high school ensembles as well. It was their choice to do the above things. When they had to make a decision when conflicts arose, THEY made the decisions…not me. BUT I usually was the one to point out the conflicts in time, and travel. They just never thought of it.</p>
<p>DD’s music is her avocation. DS’s is his job. Neither regrets the things they could NOT do in high school. Simply put…others were depending on them regardless of the activity and they needed to be reliable.</p>
<p>My husband…who I love dearly…thought the kids could do it ALL…until the week I asked HIM to do all of the kid driving. THEN he “got it”. It just wasn’t possible.</p>
<p>My husband…who I love dearly…thought the kids could do it ALL…until the week I asked HIM to do all of the kid driving.</p>
<p>Ha ha.
The nice thing about school related activities is less driving- except for when D ran track- her school didn’t have a track and so practice/meets were often far away. H also very rarely helped because of his work schedule ( and his &^%$ work schedule is also why I had never been able to take as much as I have wanted to- which he really doesn’t get).</p>
<p>We tend to be fairly laid back in Seattle, & committment like Yuki Ohno’s is unusual. ( he drove Apolo to practice & competitions after working all day and night in his hair salon)
I have however seen gyms/studios lay on parents whose kids have potential. I know one girl who broke her arm * twice* in a " highly esteemed" gymnastics studio. IMO they were requiring too much/too hard of practice for the age of the kids. No time for the muscles to recuperate and we now know, that is what it takes to * build* muscle. Rest, as well as exercise.</p>
<p>I want to clarify something about my posts above. I never asked for “special” treatment or accommodations for my daughter just because she was particularly good at any activity. When I spoke of flexibility, I meant that it was my experience that often the people involved would come to us with the offer of accommodations. So, when it happened, it would be a situation of my daughter turning down a spot in a class or a particular role because of some sort of time constraint – and then subsequently we would get a call telling us that the schedule had been changed in some way to accommodate whatever constraint she had. </p>
<p>That was rare, but it did happen. I remember telling my daughter when she was about age 6 and trying to do several activities at once, with a less than full commitment to each, that she would end up seeing other girls pass ahead of her because she couldn’t expect to do two different things half-way and keep up with the kids who were putting 100% into each separate activity. She told me that she was o.k. with that. </p>
<p>I personally was surprised years later when my daughter did not experience the negative consequences I predicted – I had assumed that she would be routinely passed over because of her lesser commitment. Instead, it really did seem to work out. She wasn’t the “star” in everything, she didn’t stand out among the group as getting any sort of special treatment – but when we set limits on our end, others accommodated those limits when it served their needs or desires. </p>
<p>I think that sometimes parents buy into excessive time commitments too much. It is possible to draw the line and say no at times, whether you are saying no to a 10 year old attending rehearsals that stretch to midnight, or to participating in some sort of competition 300 miles away, or to the someone’s insistence that your kid absolutely has to attend some sort of summer intensive camp in order to keep up with everyone else. </p>
<p>I chose – and my kid chose - not to jump into that particular race.</p>
<p>I’m finding this conversation really interesting. I always want to be laid back, and generally am. For me, my kids were always driving the ECs, but they were driven kids and very ambitious and fortunately, or unfortunately, as Thumper’s posts really point out, very good at the things they were pursuing, to the point where it was taking up an incredible amount of my time. </p>
<p>In the end, though, there’s not much that can be done. At a certain level, the kid has to choose. He or she may choose to back off from that level to pursue other things, obviously. But, at a certain level, if they choose to go forward and you choose to support this, regardless of the EC, it does consume all the time the kid might have for other things. One thing, though. By the time a kid has gotten to that point, they have to have been self-motivated. No parent can actually get a kid to THAT point. Past a certain point, it’s who has more heart, cuz there are always other really talented people at try-outs and auditions.</p>
<p>fwiw.</p>