Need advice -- DD newly diagnosed with LD

Parent Cafe
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<p>I am hoping some of you wise parents can help me with my 15 y/o D. She has been in a gifted program since age 9, and is tracked in honors and AP classes in HS, in which she gets A’s and B’s. In the past couple of years, it has been a real struggle for her to keep her math grades up, and a math tutor finally told us that she thought DD was having problems with symbols and possibly had dyslexia. Testing revealed significant processing deficits, including problems with processing speed, symbols, and coding. (I will assume that those of you with experience in the learning disability arena will know what I am talking about). These problems have apparently been hidden for years because she was so bright she was able to “get by” in spite of the challenges – but as classes become more challenging, she is struggling to keep up the same level of performance. </p>

<p>Here is the dilemma – D’s HS will not provide accommodations for her unless she is tracked in LD classes. This would completely derail her efforts to prepare for a competitive college. However, without accommodations, it is unlikely that she will be able to finish the PSAT or SAT within the allowed time, much less get a good score. She knows the material inside out, but cannot get through the written material fast enough. </p>

<p>Can anyone help me deal with her HS, or give us some tips on surviving the testing experience? Thank you!</p>

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<p>I’m hoping some of the parents will be see your query. You can also post it on the Learning Differences Board of CC. There are some very knowledgeable parents with kids who have similar issues. Good luck to your D!</p>

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<p>hmmmm, have you contacted the CB directly< you don’t have to take the test at the school, usually the diaganosis from the professional is enough</p>

<p>why does the school have any power in a test that is not theirs anyway?</p>

<p>contact the CB, the ACT people etc, directly and see what they require to get extended time, can’t imagine a school can stop them from giving you the accomodations, considering you can take the test anywhere</p>

<p>good luck, I am sure you can work it out</p>

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<p>To clarify a little, the school won’t allow accomodations in her HS classes, such as math, unless she is tracked into a special class. Also, I have heard that the College Board won’t allow accomodations easily, and that without school records showing an IEP, etc., there would be virtually no chance of having accomodations approved for the SAT.</p>

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<p>I’ve also heard about difficulties getting SAT accomodations without school accomodations, especially with a late diagnosis. </p>

<p>More and more schools are becoming SAT optional. It’s a list that you’ll want to take very seriously. <a href=“http://www.fairtest.org/optinit.htm[/url]”>http://www.fairtest.org/optinit.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hopefully some parents who have gone through similar issues will have good advice for you.</p>

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<p>I believe that hoagiesgifted.org has information on gifted/LD issues.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>They can tell you this, but they can’t make it stick.</p>

<p>(Disclaimer: This is advice as someone who has been a member of IEP teams for a couple dozen children and young adults, but I am NOT a lawyer).</p>

<p>If she needs accomodations for standardized tests, she would probably also benefit from accomodations in the classroom, too. A student with a learning disability is entitled by federal law to services in the Least Restrictive Environment. If she has been doing well in the gifted track, that’s probably the LRE. </p>

<p>Your DD is entitled to a placement decision and an Individualized Education Plan that’s based on her strengths and needs, not what they’ve found works well for other students or what’s convenient for the school. </p>

<p>Start with the principal, but if you’re already explained your concerns to the principal and gotten nowhere, my suggestion is to call the LD coordinator at the school board. Explain your daughter’s strengths and college plans and ask about accomodations in her current classroom (you can google these; I think they’re called 504 accomodations; it’s been awhile). Often coordinators have authority to recommend more than the onsite personnel can.</p>

<p>Some parents find it helpful to bring in an outside advocate who has been trained in working with IEP teams. There’s probably a support group in your community for families with a student with a learning disability. They may be able to provide referrals. Some parents also find it helpful to tape record the meeting so there is no question later about what was said (making sure to get on the record at the start that everyone knows about the recording). </p>

<p>Also, some parents I’ve worked with don’t sign the IEP if they don’t agree with it, since you can only require the school to do what’s in the document without reconvening the team. </p>

<p>As an aside, the classroom teacher or principal may feel uncomfortable with accomodations for fear it will take up a lot of class time or that other students will think it unfair. Generally, these fears turn out to be unfounded. (My D. and her friends used to write letters to the counselor if their friend DIDN’T get his modifications, which were simple things like having the test shown on the overhead projector so there was more space between the problems). This is one good reason to bring an advocate with experience with LD or to have an assessment and recommendations done by a specialist (if you can afford to have it at your own expense)–to help ease concerns that what you’re asking for is unusual or unreasonable.</p>

<p>Best wishes and please let us know how it goes. (I think CC also has a forum for issues about learning disabilities. You may get better advice there).</p>

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<p>In NY State, it is possible to get a 504 plan, which gives accommodations like extra time on school tests and keyboard usage, without having an IEP or being in an LD environment. </p>

<p>College Board is another animal…and you are likely to find some good suggestions if you go through the threads on the Learning Differences section. It will be VERY difficult to get extra testing time from the College Board if your child doesn’t have a 504 plan or an IEP.</p>

<p>Hope you will follow Conyat’s suggestions and be a strong advocate for the Least Restrictive Environment for your child. A supportive parent advocate from your school district could help, a lot, too.</p>

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<p>With a diagnosis at 15, CB is likely to require that your dau qualify for accomodations, have them in place at school and use them for a minimum of 4 mos before they (CB) will consider an application for accomodations on sandardized testing. So, your work now is to get your school to offer her accomodations. Is this a public school? If so, find out from your State Dept of Education what the policies/criteria are. If your state has a child advocacy office, contact them for further info. It doesn’t sound reasonable to track your dau. in LD classes. If she is a bright LD kid, that may be unnecessary. However, gettign accomodations from CB may not be easy. They now use the ADA criteria, comparing her scores/abilities to the “average person”. You may need to appeal aa CB denial a time or two, so be prepared. But first, get more info on Fla’s criteria for accomodations. If your child is in private school, they may have less need to follow state mandates. Sounds like you have HW to do. Good luck.</p>

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<p>If ur daughter is struggling in one area b/c of this disability maybe LD classes for that area im thinking that since she is a smart kid she can take LD Classes in the class shes struggling in…</p>

<p>Ive always been in Special ED classes so i dont know about this</p>

<p>I was diagnosed w/ ADHD and put on ritalin at 3…</p>

<p>I was given a diagnose of unclassified PDD at a young age also
I was at private Waldorf school on Long Island where my sister went to N-12th grade and my oldest sister k-5 grade…but decided to go to Public school for ms and hs…when i was diagnosed i was struggling in Nursery school…and they said i needed to b diagnosed for pre-k i was switched to a alternative private school for LD students…then i was switched to a public school but not the local one it was in district but one w/ better LD accomidations…i went there and the local MS i struggled during first yr of hs and now im at private special ED hs…</p>

<p>Its hard for me to say that u will get thru this b/c i know this is really hard all i can say is…go to soarnc.org…they have a great adventure program for Academically talented LD students if D is into it…Ive done there Cali program 2 times and there NC horsepacking trip once…</p>

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<p>getting college board accommodations is not impossible but as someone posted earlier it is more difficult with a late diagnosis and if the school does not give accommodations. At any rate - the best thing you can do right now is to start building a file and document everything. Make sure that you get a letter from the teacher who noticed the problems - and ask the school give you written documentation that they will not give accommodations if she is not in LD classes. </p>

<p>“These problems have apparently been hidden for years because she was so bright she was able to “get by” in spite of the challenges – but as classes become more challenging, she is struggling to keep up the same level of performance.”
This is a very common problem - and because of this it is sometimes hard for all of the previous teachers to really believe that there is a disability. </p>

<p>conyat’s post is great - </p>

<p>I sent you a PM also.</p>

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<p>I had very bright S’s that had processing LD. The school has to consider section 504 plans at least, which is accommodation without a full IEP. that is Federal law. I am not a lawyer either, but I had to threaten one at one point to get the plan that had been developed with a consultant attended to. The schools really do not believe a bright student needs these. But I asked them if they would drive on a highway without their glasses - which is their accommodation to eye problems :slight_smile: They started to get it. Ours needed to have the notebook computers in class since they could type but not write well. they also had to have all overhead materials given to them on paper and assignments written out for them instead of on the board. Accommodations can take all kinds of forms. Once these were done they did not need the extra time so we did not fight that one.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for the great advice – I now at least have a couple of ideas for how to approach her school, plus I will check the LD forum (which I didn’t know was here!) and the links recommended.</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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<p>my D is both gifted and LD with a processing problem, because of her brightness and ability to compensate, it took years to get a school psych to do the full multi-hour test rather than a 20 minute chat & review. That psych had a gifted/LD child and understood how demoralising it can be and how stupid your child can think they are due to being slower than every one else.</p>

<p>After the test (3-4 hours) the report was probably no LD, but the psych would run the numbers…low and behold D processes at the IQ equivalent of 119 with a total IQ around 150…119 sounds pretty good, well above average, but with her brain moving at 150, that train of thought is frequently derailed. Her worst issue is reading, she reads at a high level, but it is soooo much work for her to do, to read and reread over & over until the processing kicks in. Very tough for her. The Dx was a relief and we did no accomoidations in middle school.</p>

<p>Her HS gives timed final exams, her only accomodations were extra time on the exmas (50% more) and extra time as needed during sports intense time (three sport varsity athlete, if she was gone to a tourney on Sunday and could not spend the whole day working, she could not keep up) otherwise she was tracked into the highest possible level in all her classes and graduated in the top 5 in a very competitive school.</p>

<p>No problem getting SAT & AP accomodations with her multi-page, multi hour initial testing. And her scores with 50% more time were virtually the same as her two sisters with no extra time, as they should have been. She still did not finish most of the sections, but it did allow her to compete showing her true learning potential.</p>

<p>Rules are different in university, no accomodations unless ACHIEVEMENT is below average- so, no accomodation at all. Yes, this means some Bs instead of As, but that is just life. It also means she will not pursue a field where she would be hampered by her slow reading.</p>

<p>One person at her HS questioned why I wanted extra time when she seemed “fine.” I explained that I expect D to adapt to her issue in the real world, but things like AP, SAT, and timed finals are not the real world environment she would choose, they are an artificial constraint put on the kids by the twisted world of admissions; therefore, I will accept the extra time offered, as it is required for her to be evaluated on her true intelligence. That admin agreed with me once he uderstood we were not trying for extra hassle, not trying to game the system, only wanting to allow D to show exactly who she is in the admissions game.</p>

<p>Feel free to PM me if you need any details.</p>

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<p>I’m not a lawyer either…but…Actually, where I am, if she needs accommodations for standardized or group administered tests she MUST have the same accommodations for her classroom work. For example, if your D needs extended time, she would need to have extended time for ALL testing, not just for the SAT’s. </p>

<p>However, if a child has a disability, they should be educated within the environment closest to a non-modified one as possible. The first step (again…where I am) would be to provide REASONABLE accommodations within the regular education setting, something usually done with a 504 plan rather than an IEP (IEP’s imply the need for special education instruction). You many want to inquire about this type of accommodation plan (the 504). I will add, however, that if you’re looking at a time extension on the SAT, I’m not sure the CB will look at the 504 plan the same way they look at an IEP. OH…and also FYI, just because a student has time extension on an IEP does NOT automatically mean the CB will grant this for the SAT.</p>

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<p>I understand your dilemma well. My son, who is now 23 and a dean’s list student in college, had similar problems in high school. He also tested as gifted but had a 30 point spread between his verbal and performance IQ’s. His performance IQ, while 30 points lower than his Verbal, was still in the superior range so his high school was very resistant to dealing with the reality of his LD’s even though his grades were not nearly as good as your daughter’s. It sounds like your school is just trying to warehouse your kid rather than come up with a true Individualized Educational Plan - perhaps as a not so subtle way of pressuring you to back off so that they don’t have to commit resources to meet your child’s needs individually. </p>

<p>Under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) there is a requirement that a student’s needs must be met in the “least restrictive environment” possible. For a gifted student with your daughter’s track record but who has LD’s, there is a presumption that this means the regular ed classroom with Specially Designed Instruction and other supports built into the IEP and delivered in the classroom except, perhaps, where occasional pullouts are necessary to deliver a particular support (like meeting with a teacher of special ed to work on particular learning and testing strategies to address the LD). The party advocating an educational placement that is more restrictive (i.e. pulling the kid out of the regular ed classroom in general) has the burden of proving that such a placement is necessary and that the student’s needs can not be otherwise met, not due to the convenience of the school but because of the nature of the disability. You should push your school hard on this. Also note that the School Code for your state will have provisions setting forth the procedures and process for demanding evaluations, IEP conferences and Due Process hearings if no agreement is reached on an IEP. It is a complex area of law and I would recommend that you consult with an attorney who specializes in education law. If there is an Education Law Center or such similar organization in your area, that can be a good source of legal and practical advice as well as a referral source to an appropriate attorney. It is important though that you act promptly. The process can be slow and if the school resists, you can end up blowing much of the year before anything actually gets put into place. Consult with an attorney now, not because you are “suit happy” but because you need good concrete advice and information to protect your child’s rights and navigate what is a very complex and often technical system. Because this process is driven by the specific facts and circumstances of a student, a board such as this is ill suited to give you the correct and best advice of how to proceed. You need a face to face meeting with a professional to hash through in detail your daughter’s educational and psych-educational history and to explain your daughter’s rights based on those facts.</p>

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<p>BTW, we also looked into testing accommodations for the SAT. You must have an IEP in place first and be armed with psycho-educational evaluations stating the nature of the accommodations and the basis on which they are needed. There are a lot of hoops to jump through but you can get accommodations involving time extensions or even untimed tests. But you’ve got to walk in armed to the teeth. Find a good state certified educational psychologist in your area who will work with you on the educational/accommodations piece while a lawyer helps you with process, procedure and advocacy.</p>

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<p>Before I jumped through hoops I would do independent analysis (give similar text twice in home setting, one controlled time, one not) and see if results are really different.</p>

<p>Kids grades start to decline a bit anyway. My daughter was diagnosed with a learning disability at 5 or 6. She she was doing very well in school professionals laughed at me when I wanted to do occupational therapy. We treated it as minor and hoped for ther best, i.e. no school involvement. After 9th grade she never got above a B+ in math; after 10th grade she never got above a B+ in science. Refused all tutoring; was okay with her results. Did well on SAT’s and maintains a 3.3 at Barnard (average GPA at Barnard/Columbia.)</p>

<p>My son was diagnosed with ADD in fifth grade. Again, we went the route of not involving the school. He had even stronger results than D and is going to Williams as NMS + 34 on ACT. </p>

<p>In our experience bright kids often reject accomodations anyway – they don’t want to take tests alone, and having twice the time becomes burdensome.</p>

<p>I am not discouraging you from pursuing this, just offering another perspective. </p>

<p>As for discrepancies between verbal and performance IQ’s, a close friend whose profession is school testing tells me this is entirely normal. The more verbal the kid, the greater the discrepancy. In fact, she said highest performance IQ she ever came across in her testing was from a child with a verbal IQ significantly under 100.</p>

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<p>The tendency of bright kids with LD’s not wanting to be “singled out” and being resistant to accommodations can be an issue. It is also important to evaluate the benefit that will be obtained by forcing a school to provide appropriate SDI’s and supports versus the intrusion into one’s privacy and the time and energy needed to monitor compliance. We pushed the process with my son because it was necessary. Our daughter had ADHD issues but was managing to pull superlative grades and was fully invested in her school work. She did not want to be “identified” as having special ed needs and therefore we dealt with her needs privately. We had the resources to do so; many parents do not and therefore have no choice but to invoke the IEP process.</p>

<p>What’s important though is that the OP take control of the situation and not allow things to just evolve based on the school’s schedule and interests. Unfortunately, a parent with a kid with LD’s must be a proactive advocate to deal with an educational system that is more often budget driven than driven by providing such student’s with the educational opportunities and supports they need.</p>

<p>As to discrepancies between verbal and performance IQ’s, the information I have received (both as a parent and as a parent advocate) from several doctorate level certified school psychologists who specialize in psycho-educational testing is that discrepancies greater than 1 standard deviation indicate that further testing should be done, particularly where there are other indicia that suggest that the variance is of significance. In my son’s case, the testing revealed the existence of LD’s . Some kids are able to engage in compensatory strategies so that the discrepancy has no apparent impact; others can not without additional supports.</p>

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<p>My son too was recently diagnosed at age 14 with LD. We utilized the DVR (Department of Vocational Rehab) through our state. They provided the testing at no cost to us ( we could keep results from the school if we chose not to act on them), they are now providing software for all his textbooks, reading assignments and tests to be read to him. They are providing up to 1200 for a laptop. They also provided him with a dictation program as he has difficulties getting the thoughts from his head to written or typed form.
THey have done a vocational analysis with him and we are meeting for results next week.
They have recommendations for universities and colleges that are more receptive and accomdating for students with LDs. They also do real life strategies to help him deal with everyday life situations.
He can download his scanned readings onto his IPOD so his friends don’t even know he is listening to school work.
We found out so many things at our assistive technology evaluation. He has been studying and reading for years laying on his stomach, which we found out is a natural compensation for tracking difficulties. So he has already done some things to help himself.
All of the above (except the IPOD) were done for us at no cost.
They will arrange all special accomodations for testing which they stated also included CBE.</p>