<p>It sounds like your DD wants to stick with orchestra for now. I don’t think you should make her quit. But I do think she needs to know that you will support her decision, and if she decides later that she can’t take it any more, you will support that as well. Does she study privately? If so, you might chat with her teacher about what her practice goals are for this year, given that she doesn’t plan to major in music and that she has a lot of schoolwork. No need for her to injure herself through practicing.</p>
<p>Talk to a lawyer who is familiar with the education laws in your state and the legality of what the teacher is doing (e.g. the “preferred store” and demoting students who don’t follow along). </p>
<p>I would say to pull her from it, put her in AP math, and have her play with an adult orchestra. She will enjoy it more, and she’ll also have a really healthy group to hang out with - high school can be such a bubble, with no one in your life but your peers, teachers, and your parents. She’ll get to meet lots of different people and play without all the stress.</p>
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<p>If it’s anything like all-state in our state, probably not. The auditions are in the fall, but the actual event is in late winter, during the second semester. You need to be enrolled in orchestra both semesters to qualify.</p>
<p>Busdriver…this teacher sounds over the top. BUT as I said earlier, many high school ensembles have a “relationship” with an instrument vendor. The band gets very reduced costs on instrument repairs for instruments the band owns. I know this because our high school had such a relationship which saved them thousands of dollars a year. </p>
<p>That being said…NO STUDENT was required to use this vendor. And no student was penalized for using a different vendor. We bought NEITHER or our kids’ professional level instruments from this vendor. We got both used from other professional musicians…much better instruments at a much better price. Our kids both were first chair for all four years of high school. And our director appreciated the fine quality of their instruments.</p>
<p>Ugh, this guy sounds horrible. It looks like what used to be a great experience for your daughter has turned into a nightmare. </p>
<p>If she has been working toward state, I’d let her stay in until that audition is behind her. In the meantime, find out what is happening to other kids in the class. Start building a case to get rid of this jerk. </p>
<p>Are the kids planning any kind of insurrection themselves? I ask because my son had a bad English teacher one year. Not nearly the crazy guy you describe, but a teacher who started out okay and then deteriorated steadily in many ways: unclear and changing deadlines, testing on material not covered, etc. My son was upset. I was telling him to document the weird stuff she did, see if she didn’t autocorrect, if it kept getting worse, to go to the academic dean. Well, all the other kids were having the same experience. They quietly confronted her en masse one day. She folded like a house of cards. Behaved more consistently and predictably until one day she left die to health reasons and never came back. </p>
<p>No, I don’t think your guy will go quietly, but there could be widespread discontent.</p>
<p>Keep careful notes. Find someone higher in the district who might listen. Get together with other parents on this topic. Set limits on practice time, and if both of you need limits on practice time, consult with a Dr. and/or PT. She does NOT need those repetitive motion injuries going forward in life as she’ll end up needing to stop that instrument regardless. </p>
<p>Encourage her to quit, but I’d not force it, as it sounds so tied to her peer group and personal goals. If nothing else, it is a reason to discuss the poisonous effects of leaders of his ilk in the workforce or any organization. </p>
<p>Community orchestras vary widely. Our local one was not the greatest, if good for the washed up musician of my demographic who wants a reason to practice on occasion. There now is a better one in the area. But even if you have access to a good community orchestra, it still won’t have the social dynamic of the school group, and am guessing that is one of her motivating factors.</p>
<p>If there are other kids who want to quit, and she plays a string or woodwind, quartet or duet playing, especially with a coach can be a very gratifying way to make music and sometimes money as well.</p>
<p>What grade is she in? How important will the grade in the class be to her? If she stays it, it is very possible that she won’t get a good grade from this teacher.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the hole thread but my experience in a similar situations is that it was much more effective if a group of parents complained together for a couple reasons … first, multiple voices gives the complaints more weight … second, when people complain individially they can be told and the administrator and act as if this is a unique complaint (even when it is not). So, if you know safe people to ask it might make sense to try to go with a group to discuss this.</p>
<p>It appears that you have two possibly related decisions:</p>
<p>Do I allow her to stay in the orchestra?</p>
<p>Do I attempt to get this director removed?</p>
<p>On the first point, she is old enough to make the decision but may not be old enough to make an informed and objective decision. I can certainly understand her wanting to make all-state, and I would consider as a possibility encouraging her to stay that long but no longer. Ultimately, her attendance in band is not going to help her with college admissions or in her degree, and is unlikely to positively shape her musical interests from here, so outside of the possibility of all-state orchestra there seems little to recommend staying.</p>
<p>On the second point, removing him is going to be extremely difficult but not impossible, especially if there are similar feelings among the other parents. If the football coach was being abusive in his methods, would it be tolerable either? The big issue is that it seems almost certain that a failed attempt would result in retaliation against your daughter, which would be a big issue if she decides to stick it out. It would also likely result in an attempt by the director to smear you and your daughter, paint you as malcontents.</p>
<p>If you wanted to go this route, I would first contact the principal, primarily as a formality - he/she is likely to defend the director on principle (ha ha), and may actually be hoping that their fervor and rules will lead to accomplishments and recognition. They may have known this director prior to hiring and may have pushed for the appointment.</p>
<p>I would talk to the PTO/PTA. Depending on its composition and level of involvement, it could help to rally support and influence the administration to either rein in or dismiss the director.</p>
<p>Stepping it up a little, I would then contact the state educational board and register a complaint. They likely have codes of ethics and means of investigation, and while again they are going to favor the director in general, they will not overlook major transgressions and are less likely to have any interest in this particular teacher.</p>
<p>As a final step, I would talk to your local newspaper. Local scandals always sell well, and a reporter doing a piece on the new orchestra director may be able to uncover and air out his misdeeds, pushing this into the public forum.</p>
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This is a very good point. Not only could he make her life miserable, he can directly compromise her GPA if she stays.</p>
<p>I’m more interested in the question of what will feed her enduring love of music. Practicing six hours a day until she injures herself (even if she LOVED the orchestra director) is not a good thing. Playing as competition is not a good thing. Playing only with people all of the same age is not a good thing - the social dynamic is a BAD social dynamic (even if it is reinforced in school). </p>
<p>What would you do to help her now if the goal is that she will still be playing at 40? (which the vast majority of kids in her orchestra won’t be…)</p>
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<p>Why not?</p>
<p>There are a variety of competitive opportunities for skilled musicians, and some students want to take part in them. I see no reason why this is any worse than competition in any other activity.</p>
<p>Both of my kids were involved in instrumental music. One chose to participate in some competitive music-related activities; the other did not. Each of them had the experience he or she wanted.</p>
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<p>Why is this necessarily the goal? It’s not the goal for kids who play football in high school – none of whom are likely to be playing football at 40. So why does it have to be the goal for musicians?</p>
<p>In my experience, the musicians most likely to still be playing at 40 are the piano or guitar players, not the kids whose principal instrument is a band or orchestra instrument. But the band or orchestra kids have opportunities for group musical activities that the piano and guitar players don’t. It all depends on what you want.</p>
<p>Full disclosure: I took piano lessons for 10 years, and I still play sometimes. But when the time came to sign up for school orchestra or band, my parents made me choose between that and piano. They said there wouldn’t be time to practice two instruments. I chose piano. I’ve regretted that choice ever since. I missed out on the school band/orchestra experience, which I think I would have liked, and which my own kids (who were not forced to make the choice) both enjoyed.</p>
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<li><p>Are there other TMEA music educators at her school? Maybe a friendly band director would be sympathetic to the outrageous situation and be willing to sponsor her to All-Region/All-State if she drops orchestra.</p></li>
<li><p>Does the local news have one of those “on your side” investigative segments? This orchestra director’s forced monopoly on purchases of supplies would be great fodder for that sort of thing. It’s amazing what the court of public opinion can do to dethrone a tyrant.</p></li>
<li><p>I heartily support the community orchestra suggestion. Even if it means missing out on some awards and accolades, it will give her a musical outlet. Moreover, I can’t think of a more riveting college essay for your DD than the one she will be able to write about taking the rancid lemons this despot handed her and making sweet lemonade.</p></li>
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<p>I’d encourage her to quit and not stand for the abuse he is dishing out. It’s very difficult to fight someone with so much authority over you. I’d be afraid based on his actions of demoting her that she could end up with a bad grade (if it counts for GPA) or that she might not be allowed to go to competition in the long run. At the very least he’s making life miserable. Why put up with it?
I’d still pursue going to the school about him but unfortunately by the time anything may be done it will be too late to help your D.</p>
<p>Surely you know other parents in the group that you can reach out to. You/She cannot be the only ones feeling this way. I would start there. It seems highly unlikely your daughter is being singled out or “misunderstands” but I agree with the others that when you go to the administration it is best to have a few others as well.</p>
<p>An old joke about conductors:</p>
<p>What is the best height for a conductor? </p>
<p>About 18 inches … including the urn.</p>
<p>Some are tin horn dictators. Make a stink higher up the ladder. The crap about buying strings is inexcusable and suggests he’s getting a kickback.</p>
<p>This isn’t just for your kid.</p>
<p>I’d quit encouraging her to quit. This has to be her decision. Parents can make it an “acceptable option,” but for some kids, just dropping out without feeling clearly engaged in the decision leaves an incomplete feel. Just at a point when, in the rest of their lives, we are encouraging them to stick with challenges, not quit.</p>
<p>Why is it bad to play with the same age group? A large aspect of student orchestra still includes the social interaction among the kids. They are kids- not adults looking for a breather or young college music major grads hoping to stay involved or make a contact. What BAD dynamic? Like they’d encourage each other to problem behaviors? I found the opposite. </p>
<p>And, what’s all this about lawyering up or going to the press? It’s one thing to bring concerns to the attention of the school folks (or our youth orchestra admin.) Another to make it into a freaking war. Many conductors (yup, Lergnom) are tyrants. </p>
<p>When D2 quit, it was after two years with her jerk and she had to think about whether All-State mattered, that year. In the end, it didn’t.</p>
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War is the only way to deal with tyrants - they won’t go willingly, and should not be tolerated!</p>
<p>“It’s not the goal for kids who play football in high school – none of whom are likely to be playing football at 40. So why does it have to be the goal for musicians?”</p>
<p>Football players are physically unable to play at 40 (unless they are NFL placekickers). </p>
<p>I guess we have different ideas of the goals of arts education. I see so many people essentially driven out of music (even musical enjoyment) for decades from their school experiences. (Same thing happens from reading books.)</p>
<p>Mini, if my kids were homeschooled and had musical talent and the energy to commit, darned straight I’d be looking at community orchestra, if there was no youth-oriented option. (In my area, h/s kids did audition for the independent youth symphony.) But community, school-based or regional can be 3 different animals. </p>
<p>The time to build the foundations for a love of (and lifelong commitment to) music is usually well before senior year of hs- and not based on school alone. Family plays a large role, in encouraging and offering the various experiences. Some families also play a role in driving their kids away. 'Nuff said.</p>