<p>The thing is…as mentioned, many of our kids remain in contact with previous teachers, but I still do not quite get why this teacher told your D that the chatting has to stop. It is almost an admission of some wrongdoing, unless he is being cautious because the parents simply stated no more calls. But if it was all the innocent professional variety, plus a typical bond between a student/teacher, I’m wondering why he just agreed to stop as if there was something that needed stopping? That is what I don’t quite get…his end of it, the little that you shared, “I’ll take care of it” (quoting teacher) or …“he told my D that the chatting is inappropriate.” I think if the teacher was chatting in the appropriate fashion, he’d almost be taken back by having to tell your D that it was inappropriate. I’m wondering if it has crossed the line from typical teacher/student bonding and interest in a student because normally if that is all that it is, someone might say, “I was helping her with X” or “I have followed up to see how she is faring this year” or something that an interested closely bonded teacher might do, that is out in the open. That is the one thing that is not clear or does not fully sit right with me here. It seems to have gone beyond the typical close friendship students have with some teachers and it seems rather secretive at that. That’s what I would want to find out more about. I would not make it contentious with your D but more of your concern to learn what is going on in her life. The kind of contact my kids have with their teachers is the kind they readily admit to me. If your D is reticent to talk about it, it would cause me to wonder why so. If she was just confiding a problem with him, he’d have told you that as adult to adult out of concern. But if it was an inappropriate level of friendship that she does not want to talk about, then that is a bit of a flag, I think. That’s where you might need to take this to a counselor depending on how that conversation goes. I still would want to ask the teacher about his end of it because if it is the very innocent type of teacher/student bonding, he’d come across that way and even perhaps shocked at the idea of anything more. Just saying, “I will take care of it… I won’t talk to her anymore” seems odd to me. Again, don’t want to jump to conclusions cause he may be entirely professional and innocent and just now covering his butt to comply as he senses your concern. But I still would want to find out how many calls…times of day…any information…the nature of it…any times she is unaccountable for where she is at, stuff like that. I pretty much knew where my kids were all the time (before college), as much as it is realistically possible and I really think I did. You do need more information and it is VERY reasonable for you to talk to your D out of concern about what is going on in her life. If she won’t say, then there is a reason for the secretive nature. If it is totally on the up and up, she’d have no reason to not be open to you if asked.</p>
<p>Songman, I am glad that you are taking a balanced approach to considering what has happened, with your own experience as a music teacher in mind. The problem with the idea that the “it” that was discontinued equates to sexual abuse is that it is simply taking that conclusion too far – it is possible that your d. had a crush on the teacher and was calling him, and he was politely returning calls but not encouraging the crush. Or it is possible that the inappropriate contact was because your d. was confiding in him and seeking his advice over some other personal problem she was keeping hidden from you - for example, seeking his advice over a relationship she is having with a boy nearer her own age – and the teacher was feeling uncomfortable but not quite sure of what to do in that role. I’m not a teacher, but I have had some of my daughter’s friends put me in the position of confidante over the years – and it’s tricky: I don’t want to push away the kid or betray a confidence, but I also come to realize that I really am not the right person for the kid to be talking to - and then comes the hard part of redirection. </p>
<p>The reason I don’t think its good to read books or articles about sexual abuse unless you have more facts from your daughter to support suspicion is that you end up having suspicions fueled by facts and circumstances that are still often innocent or may have other explanations. For example, article typically list behavioral symptoms (mood changes, etc.) as being indicative of sexual abuse – when the same symptoms can also be indicative of just about any other problem in the teen’s life, including medical problems or normal ups and downs of adolescence. You could pick up one of these books - look at the signs and symptoms list – and scare yourself silly … then pick up a pamphlet on drug abuse and find the same overlapping list. </p>
<p>Even when there is sexual contact between teacher and student, it often is the culmination of many weeks and months of contact that started out innocently enough - and you may have caught this well before it went beyond a rather superficial level of flirtation. That doesn’t excuse the teacher, but it certainly would that your daughter is not so much “victim” as simply a naive teenager who needs some educating about what kind of contact is appropriate with adults. Sometimes it really just is a case of poor judgment that doesn’t end up resulting in anything more to worry about – the best place to start is by talking to the kid with an open mind.</p>
<p>soozie said:I’m wondering why he just agreed to stop as if there was something that needed stopping? That is what I don’t quite get…his end of it, the little that you shared, “I’ll take care of it” (quoting teacher) </p>
<p>Yes that bothers us also.The fact that he did not say " yes she has been calling me and I have felt uncomfortable with it or she has been discussing a problem and I was going to call you about it" -anything other than that response- instead he was very dry said he could not speak now, and that he would take care of it…also he has not called us at all since my wife called. Don’t you think if it was innocent he would have called to calm our nerves?</p>
<p>If it’s innocent, how would he know that your nerves need calming? Maybe he thinks that your wife was upset about his running up charges on the cell phone bill.</p>
<p>Our family isn’t a democracy, so this advice might not be appropriate Songman. (We’re the parents. They are the children until proven otherwise, LOL. Our children have lots of firends. We are not their friends. We are their parents).</p>
<p>Both you and your wife have a bad feeling about the behvior. That is your instinct.</p>
<p>Trust your instincts.</p>
<p>The issue of speaking to your daughter is an entirely different matter, unrelated to your discomfort with this man’s behavior.</p>
<p>A few years ago, my son began to describe what the advanced Maths teacher was wearing. Odd. He normally doesn’t notice fashion. The dinner table conversation went like this, </p>
<p>“How were classes today?”</p>
<p>“Great. Today the Maths teacher had on a little crochet sweater vest and fishnet stockings.”</p>
<p>Huh? I got a gander at her provocative outfits and wondered. Why would a young, blond Maths teacher wear those outfits in an all-male school? (No Flames please. These outfits were beyond the beyond, you’ll have to take my word for it. The rest of the school is formally dressed in suit and tie, a la Eton style).</p>
<p>She never called my son or made any other advancements that I knew of, but had she done so, I would have been on it like white on rice. </p>
<p>She was fired last year. Apparently she had full blown sexual affairs with two of the boys.</p>
<p>It is very easy to determine who has been calling whom also - by the cell phone record - all calls are listed - in and out. The fact of NO explanation on the teachers part when told to stop is very distressing - I would be very interested in his side of this story as well - especially if your DD decides she is not going to divulge much info when you talk to her - which she might do.</p>
<p>SONGMAN - I know you all have a vested emotional stake is this - and right now you are all on egg shells - and we on this board are only outside observers - albiet anonymous to you - but you have seen the response from all - who care.</p>
<p>While my initial reaction to the thread title and original post was possible over reaction going on, I am at present not so sure. But what I want to say now is that while we all here can say this or that…the thing that stands out the most to me that NONE of us can do here, is that YOU have instincts and a gut reaction as a parent who is there and knows your kid, etc. If you are sensing something is not open and forthright here or appropriate, I would look into it right away. We cannot have those instincts, just the information and range of possibilities from where we sit. You are saying you have some gut feelings here…do not rest with such uncertainty. Go find out as much as you can for better (to ease your mind) or worse (to help your D about ANYTHING or ANY reason she had to have this much contact with a teacher who she does not presently have for class). Even if it is innocent on his part, I’d wanna know what she has been up to and what made her contact him this much (or who is calling who for starters). Please talk to her and stop killing yourself guessing…ask what is going on and if she is reticent to say so, that raises flags and I’d delve deeper and seek a counselor if need be. </p>
<p>Songman, it sounds like its going to be a long and lonely road to get to the end of this thing so that you can sleep at night. You cant enlist the help of your wife because shes worried about alienating your daughter. You cant push your daughter too hard as you may just push her underground. You cant confront the teacher any more than you already have because you dont have a solid case. You cant complain to the school or the police because youre getting close to slander. You cant overreact because you just DONT KNOW.</p>
<p>But yet. . .but yet. . . you sense that something is rotten in Denmark. Follow your instincts. All I can say is that it happened to me and I now, forty years later, wish my parents HAD been involved. Blessedly I was able to extricate myself on my own without harm, but for sure the teacher was guilty of inappropriate behavior and should have been stopped. </p>
<p>Were all strangers and youre the one who has to live in your town with your friends and your family. If you choose to do nothing then, well have to accept that that was the best decision. It seems to me however, from the title of your thread through every entry youve posted, that you have an instinctive feeling that there is more to this story. So, keep at it, in your own way, in your own time. Follow the most aggressive path or the least intrusive, but dont give up till youve reached your destination, i.e., a full understanding of what exactly is going on here.</p>
<p>I agree that it’s best NOT to take daughter’s phone (you can keep a closer eye if she has her current cell phone). Kids have no problem borrowing phones from friends (my kids borrow phones from friends all the time to call me to pick them up).
I am sure you will take the best course of action & learn what you need to get the answers you need to sleep soundly again.
Everyone in this forum wishes you & your family the best in sorting all of this out. Heck, we all have kids (& their teachers) & can identify with your concerns.
HImom</p>
<p>I am a student and I would like to give you parents - especially Songman - my perspective.</p>
<p>One of my teachers approached me in an inappropriate fashion via the internet - instant messaging me at all hours with comments that made me very, very uncomfortable. I was 13 at the time.</p>
<p>I told my parents and actually printed up the conversations. My Dad went to the Principal. Apparently it was against our school board policy and the teacher was suspended.</p>
<p>In my case the teacher was the same sex as me…I don’t know if my reaction would have been the same if the circumstances were different…</p>
<p>I told my daughter about this and she said, “I talk and email with teachers alot”…and then she asked how long each of the conversations was since romance takes longer than other activities.</p>
<p>She also expressed concern that so much of what you think you know is supposition, and she wondered why you are monitoring her phone calls. She thinks you have trust issues. Where do teenagers get this stuff?</p>
<p>Songman, everyone who comes to these posts has a point of view and perhaps a personal experience that may or may not relate to your situation. If you are looking for people to support your views that is one thing, if you are looking for someone to help…get to a counselor, someone who can help you sort out feelings from facts so you can clear this trust gap between you and your daughter.</p>
<p>Your only concern should be the mental well being of your daughter. You need to find a competent therapist and take your daughter there for some initial sessions. I supect the possibility of some self-esteem issues. Leave it in the hands of the professional for now and follow his/her lead on where to go. But out. Do not become part of the problem. If it is nothing, such will come out without any further damage being done. If there is more to it, the professional will know the best route to take that is the best interests of your daughter.</p>
<p>Remember, words out of the mouth cannot be put back in.</p>
<p>Florida, not all therapists are created equal. One of my friend’s daughters was molested. When it finally came out, years had gone by. The therapist suggested they let sleeping dogs lie rather than confront the perpetrator so the kid would not have to relive the experiences. Many therapists would think this was terrible advice.</p>
<p>Parents cannot abrogate responsibility to a therapist unless they are intimately familiar with and totallly comfortable with the therapists approach and values.</p>
<p>SBmom–what is your point? That because there are inferior therapists, you should not get your daughter the help she requires. If she had a brain tumor(g-d forbid) would you have the same response? Of course not, you’d be looking for the most competent neurosurgeon you could get your hands on.
Let’s look at the facts.</p>
<p>Your daughter is possibley(probebley?) engaging in inappropriate behavior. A teacher is either an initiater or facilitator to her behavior. You don’t know which, for sure, but in any event your sole concern should be your daughter at this point. Your daughter’s behavior is connected to a system that you are a part of, not an observer to, so your aversion to her seeing a professional is possibley(all right probebly) self-protective in nature(uncouncious of course).</p>
<p>REPEAT. Time to get professional help, not post on message boards</p>
<p>I completely agree re getting professional help, my point was that ‘buyer needs to beware’ re selecting a quality therapist. I was concerned that parents who find it intimidating to talk to their child might also avoid digging in to really evaluate a therapist.</p>
<p>Pick the wrong therapist and your child does NOT get “the help she requires.”</p>
<p>Having read through this thread I have a couple of thoughts.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It is imperative that Songman and his wife speak with their daughter. This seems to me the single main issue at this point.</p></li>
<li><p>If there are problems speaking with the daughter, or if there are any unresolved questions, I’d suggest talking about THAT. </p></li>
<li><p>Therapy does seem a very good idea. Among other things, therapists are mandated reporters for child abuse. This means if they have even a slight suspicion they can make a report. Almost any decent family therapist has had a good deal of experience with these kinds of concerns.</p></li>
<li><p>Don’t assume abuse has occurred. Proceed slowly, since it does not appear anything will occur in the immediate future that is worrisome. What appears to be needed is to understand and process what has already occurred. Try to think of how to do this in a way that increases rather than decreases trust and communication. This is an opportunity to show what being a good parent means.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Hi everyone- thanks again for the comments. Here’s the latest…we did speak to our D about all of this. She was shocked…that we knew about everything…but she was careless and left many footprints everywhere.(thankfully)…the good news is that apparently there was no abuse or physical relationship here…it appears to be more like her immaturity took over and she contacted the teacher more often than the he contacted her. Although he is not innocent and now we have proof that he contacted her after the initial “goodbye” contact that we approved and spoke to him about. While she is a minor and in the eyes of the law (I believe) not responsible, no matter how many time she contacted him or harassed him on AIM. He should have contacted us and his supervisors to report that a 14 year old ,former student ,was harassing him or that he was in an uncomfortable situation. Instead he responded for what appears to be months and we never knew. So we will probabaly seek counseling for our D and will eventually take this up with the school, provided that this will not turn into the spanish inquisition…</p>
<p>You know this is a lesson learned for us. Especially for my wife who said to me many times" believe me I know our daughter" she has now admitted that clearly our D was living a parallel life, or almost split personality type of lifestyle. I have been honest and direct with all of you and you will just have to trust me that our D NEVER exhibited behavior that would lead us or anyone else to think “oh brother she has to be watched” Or “good luck she will be trouble when she gets into high school”. No clues anywhere. We are shocked. It is a lesson learned. Certainly we were concerned with her lenghty use of the internet, but we always set limits. Except this summer her tired parents fell alseep before she did…so the limits were not enough apparently.</p>
<p>Thanks again to all of you. While we did consult family .a few close friends and a professional, I still maintain that it was of value to obtain your opinions… based on facts alone without the emotional aspects which can sometimes cloud one’s judgement…</p>