<p>Help, I need some advice. I am divorced with twin daughters who are to start college this fall. They received some financial aid, but I will still be laying out over $75,000 for their first year. Their father has refused to help even though his income has severely cut back on what my kids received in aid. He is a doctor living in another state. I believe his refusal to pay is a result of what I received in the divorce settlement. My income is less than $50,000 per year. I am 53 years old and during the marriage was a stay at home mom for their first nine years. His income is about $20,000 take home per month so you can see why my kids will not get much aid due to CSS profile. I can pay the tuition but it will leave me broke by the time they are done with college. My fear is that I will be old and broke. My one daughter has refused or I should say failed to get a job this summer. She put in 1 job application. She started staying out all night soon after graduation from high school, drinking and doing things I’m not sure I want to know about. I explained what I expected her to do this summer, live by the rules of this house, seek employment and save money towards her schooling. She would rather party. after not knowing where she was for 3 days, she came home for 1 day, and failed to come home the next night. I asked her to leave and she did. The other daughter does have a job and has saved some money, but her interest also lean to staying out all night and partying with her boyfriend, who is a drug addict. My problem is do I still help them with college with the hopes that they will straighten out or to I cut my losses and secure my future and retirement. I am scared to death. They simply have stopped listening to me and by all accounts really have shown no interest in what I have to say. As far as I know they are living with a friend. I am so angry and scared that I feel I am not thinking straight and need some sage advice.</p>
<p>Wow. I’m really sorry your daughters are adding so much stress to your life right now. I don’t know what to tell you, but I’m pretty sure a good financial advisor would tell you to be concerned with securing your retirement before shelling out huge $$ for college. If I were in your shoes, I would require them each to take out loans (or is that the “aid” they are already receiving?) for part/most of their college expense and contribute a modest amount myself. Do they have any type of relationship with their dad? I’m surprised he wouldn’t want to help his daughters attend college. I guess no matter how you handle it, I would make it clear to the girls that they don’t take their classes seriously, you are under no obligation to send them back second semester. Hopefully they will come around before the end of the summer and realize that they need to take college seriously.</p>
<p>I see a couple of options…</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The students need to find a school that is affordable for you without leaving you broke.</p></li>
<li><p>The students need to transfer to FAFSA only schools where their father’s income won’t matter…only yours would be on the FAFSA. Plus, if your income is REALLY under $50K a year, with two kids in college at the same time, I would think they would qualify for at least a partial Pell grant and the Stafford loans which would come close to covering the tuition costs at an instate public…then you would be paying room/board but that sounds like less than what you are going to be paying out now per year…by tens of THOUSANDS of dollars.</p></li>
<li><p>Take the father back to court. Was ANYTHING in your divorce settlement about college costs for your kids? Perhaps it’s not too late to get something?</p></li>
<li><p>Personally, with what you are saying…I would be looking at more affordable options for your kids. Do they know what you are expecting them to pay for…and are you really willing to play hardball when they say they don’t have the money (in other words…are you willing to say NO)?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>codesun, I am so sorry that you are going through this. I know that if I were in your shoes I would NOT spend 75,000 on my daughters’ first year of school, even if they were not partying and were working 40 hours per week over the summer. You do need to worry about your future retirement. Frankly, if you think that they will continue to party during the school year to the point that they will bring home lousy grades, I think that they should take time off from school. If this is not the case, can you find a cheaper solution (instate school, private fafsa only school, community college)? Check and see if you are now on the hook for housing or other expenses at the schools that are going to put you 75,000 in the hole by this May.</p>
<p>Cross posted with thumper.</p>
<p>The aid I am receiving is in the form of a Pell grants for both daughters, plus federal loans both subsidized and non-subsidized, plus institutional aid from both schools. It comes to about $30,000. If their father was not in the picture, my one daughters school would have met all need, but his income killed that. I really feel like I have been punched in the gut. I live in a state where legal obligation for kids ends at 18 and was unable to have any stipulations in divorce settlement forcing father to pay for college. They are already committed to their colleges and I was willing to pay, but because of their behavior I am scared. I know if I don’t pay, I will lose them. Also, my fear is they are already lost and I would be a fool to pay. It was almost like when they turned 16, they turned into different girls.</p>
<p>Your divorce settlement must be screwed up or you have had all his assets and are not mentioning here. A doctor making 20k/mon should have a lot of assets after 20 or 30 years of marriage. He must be mad at you and lay the blames on the daughters. Unless you share with us more details, the answers you will be getting is not going to help you much.</p>
<p>Take it from a divorced mom whose ex does not contribute one penny to school expenses for my two Ds – if you didn’t get something in the divorce settlement for their education expenses after they turn 18, you will not get anything now by going back to court. But it sounds from your last post like you know that…</p>
<p>I think it is time for a little (probably a lot…) of tough love here. You should not be expending that kind of money with your income their education (even if they were being little angels at the moment, which it sounds like they are not!).</p>
<p>You are probably going to have to make a very tough decision: forfeit the deposit you have made to their colleges this fall. Tell them that you can’t afford to send them, and that is that. A lot of families figure this out after their kids are accepted but before they send in the deposit… I think it just took you a little longer to get there. Even if they were both working and saving, you are really spending too much for your income on their education. As nemom says, figure out if you are on the hook for housing expenses already, too. You might be able to get them to let you off the hook if your Ds don’t go, but I would get going on that right away. You also need to figure out whether you can get out of any loans at this point, and what to do about the grants they have received.</p>
<p>I’d say other posters are right on:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Your D’s may need to go to community college for at least a semester or two. The credits should transfer to your instate public colleges, so it is not wasted time. It is probably pretty late this year to do much else (but others may differ on this, I am just thinking that even if they can get into an instate school, it is late to get financial aid…but maybe some of the Federal aid would transfer? Others would know better than I would…).</p></li>
<li><p>I would tell them that you will help them with community college and in-state college expenses IF they live at home while in CC and follow the house rules, and also work in the summer and part time during the school year to contribute to their college expenses. But they will likely need to take out some loans as well.</p></li>
<li><p>Have they asked their dad for any money directly? If they could be really specific (Dad, I really need $5,000 a year in support for college for the next 4 years, is it possible you could help with this?) it would help. Or even, “Dad, if you could help cover my books” or “Half my housing expenses, which are this”. If he is anything like my ex, it does help to ask for a specific amount or to cover a specific expense (hasn’t worked for us for college expenses, but it has helped with some summer program expenses and things like that). You might try having them ask… they are presumably 18, and it might go over better from them than from you. If he says no, then at least your Ds know which parent has their back and is trying to help them!</p></li>
</ul>
<p>I would send them a text or e-mail or voice mail or call them or whatever, and set a time for them to come home to discuss this with you. You could start by telling them what you realistically can afford. Assume they are providing $X from summer and part time work, and figure out what is in your budget. If they want to ask their dad for the additional $$, have them do that immediately. If they don’t want to (or it doesn’t work), put the wheels in motion on Plan B (withdrawing from their colleges, enrolling someplace new/cheaper). It isn’t going to be a pretty conversation, but you need to do this. Good luck…</p>
<p>There is no question he is mad at me. It was a 9 year divorce, separated in 2000, divorce final at end of 2008, did not receive my settlement until October of 2009. The assets were split 50/50 in the end as I knew it would be or should be, but it took 9 years to do it, and a lot of money in lawyer fees, $100,000 on my end The marital home was not in my name, however, I was on the mortgage. In the end I had to pay him the full value of the house, because it was deemed non-marital. It was purchased when we moved here, but we were not married at the time. So I do own the home free and clear, it is worth about $240,000, but I payed him $306,000 out of the settlement. You have to understand that the house was appraised in 2005, and because of delaying tactics, finalization of the divorce took 3 more years and was caught up in the housing bust as well as the assets of the marriage dropped more than 40% He makes a lot more money now than he did before the divorce. He moved out of state and now has his own practice so I am not and do not expect to benefit from this. I have targeted my settlement as a retirement account although it is not set up as such, and therefore is not protected from CSS, although my income was low enough to benefit from FAFSA. The settlement is not screwed up because in Pennsylvania there are no laws that allow for college tuition to be part of the divorce settlement. He had much more money to fight this divorce than I did, and he did come out ahead. Of this, there is no doubt. I most certainly did not get all of his assets.</p>
<p>There is no question he is mad at me. It was a 9 year divorce, separated in 2000, divorce final at end of 2008, did not receive my settlement until October of 2009. The assets were split 50/50 in the end as I knew it would be or should be, but it took 9 years to do it, and a lot of money in lawyer fees, $100,000 on my end The marital home was not in my name, however, I was on the mortgage. In the end I had to pay him the full value of the house, because it was deemed non-marital. It was purchased when we moved here, but we were not married at the time. So I do own the home free and clear, it is worth about $240,000, but I payed him $306,000 out of the settlement. You have to understand that the house was appraised in 2005, and because of delaying tactics, finalization of the divorce took 3 more years and was caught up in the housing bust as well as the assets of the marriage dropped more than 40% He makes a lot more money now than he did before the divorce. He moved out of state and now has his own practice so I am not and do not expect to benefit from this. I have targeted my settlement as a retirement account although it is not set up as such, and therefore is not protected from CSS, although my income was low enough to benefit from FAFSA. The settlement is not screwed up because in Pennsylvania there are no laws that allow for college tuition to be part of the divorce settlement. He had much more money to fight this divorce than I did, and he did come out ahead. Of this, there is no doubt. I most certainly did not get all of his assets.</p>
<p>I am so sorry for your situation, it does indeed sound very scary. Overall when the parent(s) income shrinks then the amount laid out for education must as well. But I feel that even if you had tons of money I would still not shell out huge sums for college due to their behavior, at all! As said above it is definitely time for tough love. I would set them down and explain that your income is severely limited and you just can’t afford these expensive educations. If they are serious about college they can go to CC (where their grants may cover most of the tuition), you will help if they live at home. They need to understand that college is just not “something to do”, it is a serious commitment. </p>
<p>Sometimes it just takes some kids a while to get serious, I have one like that. He went to college right out of HS, then quit after one semester. It has taken him about 3 or 4 years to realize that to support himself he will have to get an education. He is starting slow at CC then will transfer to 4 year after this year. He is getting good grades and I am VERY proud of him!</p>
<p>I hear you all and really know what I need to do. It is just that I have dedicated the past 18 years of my life to making sure these girls have what they need and have stressed education. One daughter was to go to University of Pennsylvania and the other to UCLA. My dreams for them are coming to an end and I am simply devastated, and the truth is I was willing to sacrifice my retirement money for them thinking I am 53 and have a few good working years ahead of me to catch up.</p>
<p>It’s a shame that this deadbeat dad is so willing to abandon his kids this way. Regardless of his feelings towards you - his actions are directed at the kids and affect them.</p>
<p>
How will you actually be able to pay this unless you have enough saved up and might possibly deplete yor savings? If you can’t afford for them to attend colleges that cost this much then… you can’t afford it and they can’t attend those colleges - simple as that. This needs to be understood by all, firstly you, and then the kids, up front. It’s a starting base. Why are colleges this expensive even on the table and being considered (not that you know the finAid they’ll get)? There are much less expensive ways to attend college including going to a CC and then transferring to a state school which is perfectly viable.</p>
<p>
Frankly, they sound like they’re perhaps not ready for college anyway. </p>
<p>If you’re going to support them in college you need to lay down some basic ground rules which include a certain level of respect. If they don’t follow the ground rules then they should have consequences - at that point the decision is theirs - play by reasonable ground rules and have some parental support for college or be on their own and… support herself in college or whatever she wants to do. </p>
<p>
So, how much do they charge you to pay them to ‘not be lost’? You’ll either ‘lose them’ or not regardless of you paying them anything towards college. The emotional attachment doesn’t come with financial dependencies. You need to separate the two - emotional attachment and finances.</p>
<p>You seriously need to take a look at your financial situation regarding paying for college and what the financial choices are (i.e. CC->transfer to state, other privates with more finAid, etc.). Don’t commit to something that isn’t viable. The kids also need to understand that they need to show a certain amount of respect and earn their support at this point or if they choose not to do that, then they can choose to support themselves.</p>
<p>Penn will allow you to defer which is what I suggest you have your DD do. UCLA will be harder, but it’s worth a try.</p>
<p>Any chance when your ex learns you won’t be paying that he’ll decide to? I’ve seen this happen. Great schools, he may be looking forward to the bragging rights!</p>
<p>Would it be too late to defer their admission for a year? Lay out some stipulations to the girls regarding their behavior over the next year, and if they don’t meet them, they don’t go. I share your fear that they will spend your $75k, and then not buckle down and be the kind of successful students you would make the sacrifice for. </p>
<p>(I see Redroses and I are on about the same wavelength)</p>
<p>When budgeting, regardless of how you end up going about it, remember that not all students graduate in 4 years - especially students who are prone to partying and aren’t serious about their studies. Make sure you know what the action plan would be should they end up doing more than 4 years for whatever reason.</p>
<p>“I have targeted my settlement as a retirement account although it is not set up as such, and therefore is not protected from CSS, although my income was low enough to benefit from FAFSA.”</p>
<p>Make an appointment with an investment counselor today to find out whether in your particular case moving that money into an annuity would make sense. This would let you “retirement-ize” as large a chunk of it as you want or need to right away. Another option would be to maximize your IRA and 401(k) each year using your settlement money to feed those two accounts. Since you are over 50, you can put 6k each year into the IRA and 22k into a 401(k).</p>
<p>Wishing you all the best.</p>
<p>I am desperate to get them out of this town. Maybe a geographical cure is being naive, but if they stay hear, my fear is they will only continue down this path of self destruction. I don’t know what happens to kids, especially teenage girls, but they are both involved with boys, one in a half-way house for alcohol, already served time in jail, and 2 stints in rehab. The other is addicted to Percocet and my daughter actually buys drug test at the drug store to administer to him. Maybe she has some sort of rescue fantasy. This is the first boyfriend for both of them, started end of junior year, the other started beginning of senior year. Both local boys who are destined to stay here. My girls need to get away. I think. These relationships have turned them into liars and sneaks, and I have sent them emails to get together to discuss, but to no avail.</p>
<p>I feel for your family. Financial problems aside, you need to fix the family first, namely your two Ds.They must have been two great students otherwise they colud not have entered these elite colleges. To fix the problem you need time, you MUST defer college for both of them. You must find out why they act like this and seek consuling as fast as possible. Psycotherapy probably is in place. I don’t think its the sweet 16 turns them into a tyrant, but it has much to do with the finalization of the devoice, which they might not be aware of before. There is lot to your situation right now that we don’t know and please don’t share with us, but leave it with a doctor to treat you and your family.</p>
<p>By leaving town is not going to help you, when a kid is on drug she is on drug whereever she might be. The problem will still be there when you skip town and drug is everywhere be it PA or CA.</p>
<p>YOU NEED TO FIX THE PROBLEM HEAD ON, NOT TO EVADE IT.</p>
<p>I never said my daughters were on drugs. I have not seen any evidence of that. One daughters boyfriend had 2 underage DWI’s before she started seeing him, and is now paying the price, half-way house. The other boyfriend was or is addicted to Percocet. My thoughts were simply that if they are away from the boyfriends, the connection will eventually die on its own. Hence, leave town for college. Yes, they were very good students, it has just been since graduation and turning 18 that they feel they can do whatever they want when they want. Obviously, I did not agree with this in that they are no longer staying hear. I have set limits and have followed through with what I said would be the outcome if they did not adhere. My real concern is simply are they at a point where it would be foolish of me to place myself in a precarious financial situation to send them to their dream schools. I Know of several parents in my area who are experiencing similar situations with their recent grads who feel they re now free to do as they please. I’m not sure my situation is unique in that regard.</p>