<p>I have been a reader for a long time and am certain that someone(s) of you will have some words of wisdom
Have any of you experienced any attitude problems (disrespectful, acting entitled) with your son/daughter and if so how did you deal with it?
We have already talked to him about the lack of communication, acting entitled, etc with no results. It has gotten to the point that my husband has postponed purchasing our sons car and is thinking about stop paying DS expenses (cell phone, car insurance, etc). The car is a biggie because he is at a service academy and he has driving privileges this year.
We have some similar issues during his H S senior year, but everything got much better when he entered the academy.<br>
It is frustrating he calls every other week (if we are lucky), and most of the times is when he needs
something.</p>
<p>There are different ways to look at the problems you describe above, but they all point in the same direction. One way I would look at it (as a parent of a 19 and 16 year old) is just the biological imperative - meaning, that as children turn into young adults, a certain push-pull starts to happen. The young adult wants new freedoms and to break away from parental expectations about behavior BUT wants to keep all the perks of being a dependent child. The parents, on the other hand, have the conflicting desires to give their offspring all the advantages in the world BUT have these same now adult children behave as if they were still 12 (much more inclined to be reasonable, cheerful, and somewhat grateful).</p>
<p>In short - these conflicting issues are nature’s way of inching parents and offspring to cut the dependency ties. The parent needs to face their fears of letting go and the adult-child needs to be booted out of the nest to fly on his/her own oomph. The parent “feels annoyed/ignored” by the so called entitled behavior (the adult-child can ONLY act entitled if the parent entitles them - think about it!) and the adult-child feels invincible and powerful (why not - they still have the world handed to them on a silver platter by adoring parents and they don’t have to DO anything in return to earn it).</p>
<p>If you want different attitudes from your adult-children, then start treating them like adults. Adults don’t expect others to just “give/gift” them huge items like automobiles. Adults pay their own utilities and other expenses like cellphone costs and insurance.</p>
<p>Each family makes their own decisions on how to transfer the responsibility for these items/expenses - some will go cold turkey at age 18, others will slowly phase them in. For our family, from age 16 onward we stopped all allowances (other than a <em>basic</em> clothing allowance per year), stopped offering to pay for their entertainment (movies, going out to eat with friends, etc), and started to charge them their portion of the cellphone bill. The reasoning was that we wanted them to learn how to budget (ie: clothing allowance), how to earn more money on their own if they wanted more than a basic wardrobe; we wanted them to make the connection between their entertainment and how far their meager funds went (if they want to go out MORE, they’d have to work/babysit/earn MORE money) and we wanted them to get a sense of what it was like to pay a steady-but-annoying utility-like bill (the cellphone).</p>
<p>It is quite reasonable (meaning, many families seem to do this) to expect a young adult to pay for their own gas/insurance. I don’t know if your son has any opportunity to earn money beng in a service academy - but it is also perfectly okay to be without a car. Plenty of buddies will have a car to bum an occassional ride from and he’ll do just fine.</p>
<p>If you feel like an ATM to your son, you have two basic choices. Cold turkey stop offering any money. Or, sit down and come up with a bare-bones allowance situation (monthly stipend) and force him (by NOT ever lending him extra cash) to live by that budget. If he over spends, let him live without. OF COURSE there will be howling - remember that complaining is the last resort of a frustrated teen/young-adult to try and guilt a parent into caving. :)</p>
<p>Annika</p>
<p>There is his attitude and there are your actions. You have no control over the former and complete control over the latter. I think the trick is to not become retaliatory and spiteful, IOW, do not model behavior you would not respect if it were coming from him. Your tone is all important. Reasonable and matter of fact works well.</p>
<p>Is it simply a matter of tone on his part, or is he being overtly rude, demanding and presumptuous? </p>
<p>I am reminded of our dealings with preschool kids: I don’t like it when you talk to me like that, and it will not help you to get what you want. If only it were that simple when they are older, but really, at base, that is what you are trying to tell him. No one wants to help someone who is obnoxious, whether it is a parent, a friend, or a coworker.</p>
<p>He wants the best of both worlds: your continued support and the freedom to blow you off. This will not help his eventual independence, IMO.</p>
<p>I wish I could be more helpful.</p>
<p>OP, you might want to read this essay, which is currently posted on another CC forum- it basically illustrates, in a humorous way, the way kids evolve- from loving children- to rebellious teenagers, and [hopefully] then adults who do love and respect their parents, and show it!</p>
<p>"Okay, this is an email forward, but I think it describes what we are all experiencing. It’s called “The Cat Years”.</p>
<p>I just realized that while children are dogs - loyal and affectionate - teenagers are cats. It’s so easy to be a dog owner. You feed it, train it, boss it around. It puts it’s head on your knee and gazes at you as if you were a Rembrandt painting. It bounds indoors with enthusiasm when you call it.</p>
<p>Then around age 13, your adoring little puppy turns into a big old cat. When you tell it to come inside, it looks amazed, as if wondering who died and made you emperor. Instead of dogging your doorsteps, it disappears. You won’t see it again until it gets hungry – then it pauses on its sprint through the kitchen long enough to turn its nose up at whatever you’re serving. When you reach out to ruffle its head, in that old affectionate gesture, it twists away from you, then gives you a blank stare, as if trying to remember where it has seen you before.</p>
<p>You, not realizing that the dog is now a cat, think something must be desperately wrong with it. It seems so antisocial, so distant, sort of depressed. It won’t go on family outings. Since you’re the one who raised it, taught it to fetch and stay and sit on command, you assume that you did something wrong. Flooded with guilt and fear, you redouble your efforts to make your pet behave.</p>
<p>Only now you’re dealing with a cat, so everything that worked before now produces the opposite of the desired result. Call it, and it runs away. Tell it to sit, and it jumps on the counter. The more you go toward it, wringing your hands, the more it moves away. Instead of continuing to act like a dog owner, you can learn to behave like a cat owner. Put a dish of food near the door, and let it come to you. But remember that a cat needs your help and your affection too. Sit still, and it will come, seeking that warm, comforting lap it has not entirely forgotten. Be there to open the door for it.</p>
<p>One day your grown-up child will walk into the kitchen, give you a big kiss and say, “You’ve been on your feet all day. Let me get those dishes for you.” Then you’ll realize your cat is a dog again. "</p>
<p>“Adults don’t expect others to just “give/gift” them huge items like automobiles. Adults pay their own utilities and other expenses like cellphone costs and insurance”</p>
<p>Try to tell that to my son! We haven’t heard from him in 3 weeks now, because his dad told him DS has to start paying his cell phone and insurance.
I am so afraid we are going to loose our son.</p>
<p>“I think the trick is to not become retaliatory and spiteful” </p>
<p>Yes, I agree. It is somehow difficult because my husband believes that DS should not be “rewarded” for his behavior. ( Does that makes sense?) </p>
<p>“he being overtly rude, demanding and presumptuous” </p>
<p>Yes, extremely!</p>
<p>WPMOMOF4-</p>
<p>
I think he is doing the young adult version of holding his breath until he turns blue. If he gets what he wants through this kind of behavior, why should he stop?</p>
<p>If your husband has told him that he must pay his own cell bills and insurance, and that decision is one that stands up to unemotional examination (it would in this household!), then you need to stand by it. If the declaration was made in anger, then it needs to be reiterated calmly and reasonably. I think this is the only way to help this relationship eventually transition to one of mutual respect.</p>
<p>You will not lose your son by expecting that he behave responsibly, though if he suspects that that is one of your worries, that gives him just another chain to yank. You and your husband know that the present situation is not tenable. You have the opportunity to be rational about your expectations for him and the role you will play in supporting his desired lifestyle. </p>
<p>My opinion is: If you ever want to get beyond this stage, I think you need to step back from the punishment/reward model. It is not easy to change our own behavior, but I believe that is what it will take.</p>
<p>“Try to tell that to my son! We haven’t heard from him in 3 weeks now, because his dad told him DS has to start paying his cell phone and insurance.
I am so afraid we are going to loose our son.”</p>
<p>You are much more likely to lose your S if you give him everything he wants: At some point, what he wants will be far more than you can afford, and you’ll have to say, “no.” If he has lived far into adulthood feeling entitled to get what he feels you should give him, then you could lose him. He also could become one of those adults who keep their own parents away from the grandkids unless the parents give big gifts, etc.</p>
<p>I agree with the person who said your S now is doing the young adult version of holding their breath until they turn blue.</p>
<p>Went through something similar a couple of years ago with my older S, who is now 24. There was a fairly long and painful period in which he didn’t communicate with us. He did finally come around, and actually admitted we were right. In the meantime, he had matured a great deal including holding financially responsible his own roommate who wasn’t working or doing anything to help pay the bills.</p>
<p>I know it’s hard, but do your best to set the financial boundaries in a way that kindly, but firmly, emphasizes that this is part of being an adult: It’s not punishment.</p>
<p>MENLOPARKMOM - Thanks I needed that :-)</p>
<p>“I think he is doing the young adult version of holding his breath until he turns blue”
Yes, I agree</p>
<p>“holding financially responsible his own roommate who wasn’t working or doing anything to help pay the bills”
Northsarmom You give me hope.</p>
<p>“emphasizes that this is part of being an adult: It’s not punishment”.
I am pretty sure he takes it as punishment.</p>
<p>THANK YOU ALL</p>
<p>Just keep telling yourself, “We are doing the right thing!” You will not lose your son, though there may be a dry spell until he decides to talk to you again. It’s so important that you maintain the “reasonable and matter of fact” tone as mafool suggested. No apologizing! Just act like it’s the most natural thing in the world (which it is). If he decides to speak to you in order to ask about the status of the car he is expecting, you or H can just tell him that you’ve decided that’s not really in the budget right now or some such thing. Don’t make it sound like punishment or like it’s linked to his not calling. </p>
<p>It would actually be hilarious to think about the possibility of him ranting to his buddies about mommy and daddy not buying him a car. They will likely laugh him out of the building.</p>
<p>You said that your son is at a service academy. That being the case, he receives a monthly stipend that should be more than adequate to pay for his cell phone and insurance. Our kids had to pay for their insurance as soon as they got their driver’s licenses. We do pay the cell phone bill. Everybody has to do what works for their family. I’d be willing to bet that most of your son’s classmates are paying for their own insurance.</p>
<p>As for a car, he could probably make payments on a used car, too. If not, then maybe he needs to save up for awhile to get one.</p>
<p>If he’s attending a service academy and not in high school, he’s already an adult. If I were him I’d refuse your help and establish my independence. It’s time for him to act like an adult, and time for you to treat him like one. My mother used to say if you don’t make each other crazy no kid would ever leave home. Sounds perfectly normal to me.</p>
<p>Menlopark Mom. Thanks for ‘the Cat Years’. Truer than you might think at our house. We have one who needs to cuddle, when she isn’t being ultra-independent.</p>
<p>WPMOMOF4:
After reading this thread, I decided to respond. Mostly because I currently live at the Service Academy your son attends, my husband is a permanent professor here (although he is currently deployed to Iraq for a year-one month down, 11 to go!). Anyway, I spend A LOT of time with the cadets here and I think the issues your son is facing go a lot deeper than merely being angry that he has to pay a cell phone bill or insurance. If he can have a car, he must be at least a junior or senior. Depending on which one, he is facing alot of choices, decisions, stress, confusion, about the road that lies ahead. While we assume that service academy cadets are very mature (many are), the road they have chosen is a difficult one at best. He is now entering the period of his Academy experience that expects him to be a good leader, be responsible for others in many ways, and he may just be feeling that he still wants to be taken care of by someone else, namely, mom and dad. These kids graduate from here and in several short months, are out there defending our nation, and making decisions that other 21 year olds are not making. These decisions might mean the life or death of another human being. So, my gut is telling me that your DS is struggling with these issues, feels alone, and maybe doesn’t think anyone understands what he is going through. So many cadets here (especially the guys) put on a verytough exterior when in actuality, they are overwhelmed by the worry of what lies ahead, whether they will make the right choices, etc. At the end of the 4 years, they surprise everyone, especially themselves, with their maturity and their judgement. It just takes longer for some-service academy cadet or not. If you want to PM about this, I’d be happy to chat with you off-line. But trust me when I say that we watch the evolution of cadets with awe and amazement. Your DS might be truly struggling with the feelings of wanting to still be taken care of by parents, vs. having to grow up and be a leader. Give it time…he will come around. By the way, the last three weeks at the Academy have been really crazy with the change in the summer schedule, so it is very possible that you have not heard from DS because of the demands on his time. Hang in there. Beat Temple! :)</p>
<p>“You said that your son is at a service academy. That being the case, he receives a monthly stipend that should be more than adequate to pay for his cell phone and insurance.”
Yes, he does.</p>
<p>“the road they have chosen is a difficult one at best”</p>
<p>Yes, we definetely agree. That is why we have been so patient. But
It has gotten to the point that he talks to me like we are at the same level, not like a son. When it gets to that point I just leave the room and tell him
I would not continue the conversation, until he remember who he is talking to.
Things had gotten worse since dad is not home (work related)</p>
<p>THANK YOU ALL</p>
<p>I would reiterate the need to maintain a matter of fact tone, you are not punishing him, you are parenting him. My DD complains that being grown up “sucks” but I think she is proud of herself paying many of her own bills.</p>
<p>We have always deducted car insurance and cell phone charges, if the kids were on our plan and if they were using the car. No big emotional deal- we have a list of what we pay for and what we don’t and we are very clear. Some of their friend’s parents do it differently, some “better” and some "worse. I don’t like to see the kids whose parents are subsidising their rent (post UG) or giving their college kids a credit card to use carte blanche and my DD is proud of herself, though she would be open to Daddy’s money :D</p>
<p>BY the same token, it may feel like you are changing the rules mid stream. We try to never put pressure on our kids to do any more calling than they want, a text or email to confirm they are alive is all I ask. Of course there are times when we hear way more or way less, and sometimes we may yearn for more, but I follow my parents example and demand nothing- what I get is freely given and it works out in the end.</p>
<p>My in laws demand phone calls at certain intervals and even at 50+ my DH dreads calling them with the duty call.</p>
<p>Did you set any conditions for the car- like a GPA? If he has met those maybe he will respond more to a generous spirit?</p>
<p>I have one DD who just does not do as well at staying in touch and when she does call it’s usually about her. That is just who she is and has always been. Running her own life seems to be all she can handle, being mega- thoughtful is not usually on the menu. I try to be very appreciative when she does thoughtful things, using positive reinforcement and she is getting better as she matures, but her sisters could do it much younger.</p>
<p>I don’t want her to feel like nothing is ever enough, so I only assert good thoughts to her.</p>
<p>You know your son, take our advice where it applies and ignore it where it does not.</p>
<p>I just read through this and I am confused - </p>
<p>are you tying his cell phone bill and car insurance to how often he calls you and how he treats you?</p>
<p>I am not sure the two should be in the same conversation - it sounds like bribery in a way.
I am not in your position though. My #3 is a plebe and I pay her cell phone because she doesn’t have much money - I think some cadets may think they are “entitled” to extras since their parents aren’t forking over the big bucks for tuition.
We don’t have any agreement or understanding with our daughter and perhaps we should.</p>
<p>I do have two older kids - one is 600 miles away and a senior. She moved to college 3 years ago and never came home. She will come home for a visit - Christmas and a couple of weeks in the summer, once in a while for spring or fall break. She rarely (never) calls. I call her. I help with tuition, room and board - she must take out Stafford loans and she pays for everything else. She never asks for money. I am only allowed to call her at certain times since my phone calls are usually when she is eating or in class - it’s kind of a family joke. We don’t have “issues” - it is just how she is.
The nature of 20 somethings - is they don’t communicate unless they need something. I don’t take it personally.
Perhaps if my kids were ungrateful - I would however.</p>
<p>Soon your son will be a full fledged adult - the best thing about having adult children is they can become good friends. The relationship changes - for the better - IMO.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>False!!!</p>
<p>Go Army!!! Beat Temple!!!</p>
<p>No no no no no!!!</p>
<p>Wait, your son is at a service academy, he’s not a first year student, and you’re whining about the cost of his cell phone? My kids’ cell phone cost $10/month on our family plan. It’s not a big deal. I’m still paying it because that way I know I can get in touch with them–and they’re out of college. </p>
<p>Why are you worried about how often HE calls you? Why not just call him once a week instead of making a big deal about it?</p>
<p>I suggest you apply dog training principles here–reward the behavior you want and ignore the behavior you don’t want. You want to talk to him–have short and pleasant conversations with him. Cut them off while he still wants to talk. Greet him cheerfully when he does call. </p>
<p>You don’t want him to ask for money? So ignore it when he does. “Mom, I need $50 for a new hat.” “Honey, it’s so nice to talk you. Your father and I had a great time at the movies last night, we saw a movie I’d know you’d enjoy.” “Mom, I need $50.” “Is that for school stuff, dear?” “No” “Oh, I’m sorry, the doorbell’s ringing, call me back later.”</p>
<p>“are you tying his cell phone bill and car insurance to how often he calls you and how he treats you?”</p>
<p>Not at all, you have to read the thread… We are concern because at this point we believe that somehow we contributed to the problem and we are trying to learn from our mistakes. One of them was to hand everything to DS on a silver platter.</p>
<p>“he’s not a first year student, and you’re whining about the cost of his cell phone? My kids’ cell phone cost $10/month on our family plan. It’s not a big deal”</p>
<p>This is not about cell phone cost, this is about us knowing that something is not right and trying to do the best we can to help our son through this phase. Maybe his behavior will be normal in other family, but not in ours.
You have a GREAT family plan, but I repeat this is not about a cell phone
</p>
<p>THANK YOU ALL</p>