Need the collective wisdom of CCers

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I will try to keep this short. </p>

<p>I have a friend who is in crisis now. Her second husband just left her and moved out of state. He is not coming back. Her first husband left her about 12 years ago, then several years later, committed suicide. The 2nd has been a loser from the get go and his idea of working has been one “get rich quick” scheme after another. The first husband left the 3 kids $250K from life ins, which the 2nd husband convinced my friend to invest in some land deal, which naturally, went sour. </p>

<p>Her two oldest are out of college and working. Her youngest is a Soph and since they had no money to pay for tuition, has taken out loans, including parent loans. </p>

<p>They haven’t paid their mortgage in 2 years, are in foreclosure, and on top of that, she is going blind (some strange auto-immune problem is the cause from what I understand,) and has Lyme Disease - suffers from tremors, etc., She occasionally substitutes teach, but given her physical conditions getting any type of real work is problematic. </p>

<p>Supposedly, the 2nd husband is going to get her an apartment and pay for it (I doubt this will happen, though) and I have been trying to help her clean out her house - which she hasn’t cleaned since last March!!! And she is border line hoarder, imo. </p>

<p>Every suggestion I have given her. - and have ever given her - she has a zillion reasons why she cannot do it. Consequently, she has never made the right decision, ever. </p>

<p>Late yesterday she called me and I could tell she was in a horrible state. She had been subbing and couldn’t read anything the kids had written when she went to check their work. Her vision issues get worse under stress, but she worked herself into a state thinking the one thing she has been able to do work wise - she can no longer due. She then called the 2nd husband which only made her state of mind even worse. </p>

<p>Fearing for her safety I went over - in my pajamas - and tried to calm her down and get her to call her therapists office, if only to get the on call nurse, and schedule an appointment for today. That took a few hours of convincing her on my part, but at least she agree to it. </p>

<p>She will not tell any of her kids because of what they went through with their dad and the youngest thinks she is going to be able to go abroad this summer and get an internships. I told her she needs to tell her daughter that is not going to happen and she needs to get a paying job. My friend tells me she cannot tell her daughter. </p>

<p>When I got home last night I went on my friend’s facebook page and found her sister and sent her a message asking her to call me. Her sister knows some of what is going on, but I don’t think she really knows how bad it is. I haven’t heard from the sister yet, and do not know if she will call me. </p>

<p>I do not want to be the the one to call 911 if another situation like last night happens again without her sister, at the very least, understanding her situation and I am pretty sure I am the only friend here she has left who even cares a little anymore. </p>

<p>She is already on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication but because of her financial situation is on medicaid and only allowed 12 therapy sessions a year (or so she says.) </p>

<p>There is a lot more to the story but it would take me all day to explain everything. </p>

<p>Any advice anyone can give me is on what I should do is appreciated.</p>

2

<p>I think the son should be involved. Or any other close family member. A little support can’t hurt. Maybe not so much the daugher, since she’s in school. But they should still visit. But talk to her first of course.</p>

3

<p>it seems to me that she has refused to take any advise from you. I don’t think she is interested in your feedback, rather she just needed someone to talk to. as a friend, give her your time when she wants to talk. of course, if you do get a respond from her sister, share these concerns with her. </p>

<p>she is an adult.</p>

4

<p>I think the son needs to be told too and when I have suggested it she brings up his father’s suicide and how the son told her how helpless he felt seeing his dad go down hill, and she can’t do this to her sons, daughter again, etc., etc., etc. And she tells me he is too busy with his job to even come for a day. Everything I suggest she gives me reason after reason she cannot do something. </p>

<p>I am leery though of contacting the son myself. I believe if she found out I have contacted the sister, she will feel betrayed and cut me off and sadly, I think I am it as far as having someone in her life. I would wash my hands but if anything happened I would have a hard time living with myself! </p>

<p>The 2nd son is living out west and I don’t think is financially able to pick up and fly home. Every family member (her mom, her two brothers, her sister) I have suggested she reach out to she tells me they can’t come, don’t care, blah, blah, blah… </p>

<p>Myboy, I know she is an adult - but none of her actions, decisions (or lack thereof) are adultlike.</p>

5

<p>Problem is, if she is hospitalized, you can’t do anything for her there-make decisions, etc. I think you should call the son and just say that his mom had a bad episode and that he should probably get in touch with her.</p>

<p>Also, she should really start applying for Social Security Disability. Blindness is one of the “automatic” qualifiers. She would at least have some income coming in–assuming she has worked enough to qualify.</p>

6

<p>You are a very compassionate person to be involved emilybee. She is lucky to have someone who cares. Listening to her, even though it appears she has no idea of how to turn things around, probably provides great comfort. Reading between the lines, her family may have an idea of what is going on, but may be tired of all the drama, and may not want to be involved in what appears to be a hopeless situation anymore. I wouldn’t be surprised if they (or other former friends) have tried to help her in the past and been frustrated that it didn’t do any good.</p>

7

<p>I just got off with her sister. She is pretty much aware, but don’t think even she realized how really awful it is. She is going to contact the oldest son and even though my friend has told me her sister won’t come (not true) I told her she needs to come anyway and can even stay at my house (no one in their right mind would be able to stay in my friend’s house - I can’t even stomach having a cup of tea it’s so filthy.) The sister also asked me for some names of professional de-clutterers/cleaner and will make arrangements for that. </p>

<p>I have suggested disability for the blindness but her condition is strange in that she can see well enough on sunny days to drive and her license will be revoked if she applies for disability. To her, that would really be in the end and part of her depression, imo, is her knowing that her last shred of independence is gone. </p>

<p>Also, she never worked full time, so disability might be miniscule. Her first husband owned a successful restaurant, but even back then they made bad financial decisions, so there was no savings, etc., just his life insurance for the kids which was blown. </p>

<p>And again, all my suggestions along any of those lines are answered by her with , “I can’t.” </p>

<p>Thank you all for reading everything, I really appreciate it.</p>

8

<p>emilybee:</p>

<p>You are doing good things for your friend – including listening, advising, and trying to get family members involved.</p>

<p>For your own sake, however, remember that you can lead a horse to water, but you may not be able to make this one drink. Some people (and this woman may be one of them) are unable to do the right thing, even when it would benefit themselves greatly. It that turns out to be the case here, you should still feel good that you did everything that anyone could have done.</p>

9

<p>This situation evolved over many years and just cannot be fixed quickly. It does sound like many have tried to help and have stopped due to the frustration you are experiencing. You have done what you can do for your friend and now it’s time to let the family intervene. There are some people who do not really want to be helped and cannot see any way out. It is called learned helplessness. Bless you for trying, but even with an entire mental health team, this is a difficult situation.</p>

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<p>VH, I have lead her many times and she has never taken the drink. :frowning: I was hoping that hitting rock bottom - and believe me - she’s there - she would listen to reason. </p>

<p>I also believe she is severely depressed and really needs intensive professional help, but with no money and bare bones medical insurance I don’t see that happening. </p>

<p>She also blames her 1st husband’s psychiatrist for his suicide so the suggestion of her seeing one, instead of just a therapist, wasn’t recieved well, either. I explained (even if what happened is true) that just because one psychiatrist isn’t good, doesn’t mean all psychiatrists are, to no avail.</p>

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<p>I know, Marybee, I know. Hopefully her sister will do what she says she will. The sister told me she has told my friend she could come to her home (OOS) just to get away for a bit or live with her until she gets on her feet but she told me her sister gives her reason after reason why she cannot. </p>

<p>I think my friend is feeling a huge amount of shame that she has gotten herself into this situation and cannot bear facing any one.</p>

12

<p>About the professional de-clutterers/cleaners. They are expensive and they typically want to work with the person who has the problem. If the person doesn’t address the crux of their problem then the cleaned house will soon be back in the state it was in. I’m not saying you shouldn’t do it, just that it isn’t as simple as it sounds. Maybe you and the sister can brainstorm and see what ideas you can come up with.</p>

<p>You’ve got some great responses here. Ultimately if your friend won’t help herself there is nothing you can do for her.</p>

13

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<p>This. If doing all you can doesn’t help your friend, then nothing you do will help your friend. It’s not that you didn’t try hard enough or care deeply enough; it’s that nothing you do will help your friend.</p>

14

<p>I have parents like that. Maybe not quite as helpless, but they make me worry.</p>

15

<p>Pea, the sister is going to pay for decluttering & cleaning services. </p>

<p>We know that is not a solution to her problems but the bank is going to want her out of the house soon, it has to be done, and it is too overwhelming for her to do it herself. I helped her for two hours the other day until she said she couldn’t do any more. </p>

<p>I think of this part as just one less thing off her plate that she cannot deal with. </p>

<p>And now that I have given her sister a much better picture of the situation and she is stepping up, I can take a back seat and just help out a bit when I can and not worry, if I think she is becoming a danger to herself, I would have to be the one to make the call.</p>

16

<p>emilybee, you have done the right thing. I have been through some very difficult times with a mentally-ill friend who refuses to admit that she is ill. I described it in general terms when <em>I</em> was asking for advice here, so I won’t go into it again. ALthough it is true that we cannot force a person to accept needed therapy and help, that does not mean, IMHO, that we should just say “She’s an adult” and walk away. I’m so glad to read that her sister is stepping in. You’ve put in motion what you can. Now all you can do is continue to be supportive while taking care of your OWN emotional state. This kind of thing can be very difficult to cope with. (I have had to virtually sever my relationship with my friend, because I cannot stand to enable her in her denial.) Best to you.</p>

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<p>Thanks Consolation for you kind words and understanding. Though I have known her since our kids were in playgroup as babies, we have not been as close as I am to my others friends on a day to day basis because her life has always been too much drama for me, but I think in a crisis she knows I will be there for her and that I will not judge, so I get these calls. </p>

<p>I need a tall glass of wine right now and DH to make me dinner tonight. I am frazzled.</p>

18

<p>@emilybee – I forgot she has to move out of her house. The cleaning and decluttering is completely appropriate. When the assignment is just to clean out the house without the consideration that the same person will still be living there then the assignment is much easier for them.</p>

19

<p>It sounds like you gave some good advice but she is unable/willing to act on it. </p>

<p>I am a brass tacks kind of person. Either you wait until her mental/physical health get rehabbed to the point where she can follow good advice or events force her to act. Frankly it sounds like it is going to be a long go before she stabilizes mentally and that is just going to be made worse by stilling in an empty house. And one that is disastrous to boot, with late notices coming in the mail every day.</p>

<p>Likewise the bank evicting her and tossing her goods out on the street isnt likely to be salubrious either. </p>

<p>The best way forward would seem to be for someone to take her in. And send the contents of the house to some economical storage unit. Then there is no axe over her head. </p>

<p>Ideally there is a little “carrot” here too- maybe a tour of a nice apartment community she can think of moving into, so she can see herself is a nice new lifestyle. Hint- you dont need to store all that furniture.</p>

<p>Clearly its time for the kids to step up. Its only recently that we have infantilized kids in their college years. In WWII 19 and 20 year olds were commanding bombing runs over Germany and Japan- is it really too much to ask for them clear their childhood furniture out of a house that is going to be sold off? And instead of going to Europe or the bar, help out your own blood in her time of need. </p>

<p>She is going to need some kind of income though. That might mean filing for disability. And there should probably be a financial adviser involved to tell her if she is going to need to file for bankruptcy.</p>

<p>Summarizing:

  1. Get her somewhere where she can think
  2. Put the house contents into storage to be dealt with but not in a frantic rush
  3. Legal/financial advice about the divorce and her financial outlook.
  4. Plan forward- income, housing, budget. What to keep from the house</p>
20

<p>Pea, no worries. </p>

<p>Argy, thanks for taking the time to post. I wish it was that simple but the reality is it’s not, nor am I the one who can take it on. </p>

<p>1st, she has no money to move into a nice little community. We do, however, have a mutual friend whose one of her husband’s businesses is owning many multiples of apartment complexes. I have brought up that she should approach our friend and ask if they can help her out. These are people who donate money so wings of hospitals can be built bearing their name and have buildings on college campuses with their name on them, so I am sure they would give her an apartment. </p>

<p>I don’t think it is my place to tell her children - especially given what they went through with their father before he ended his life by suicide. I will leave that up to her sister. </p>

<p>She had hinted to me (and her sister) that she is afraid that something the 2nd husband did concerning money is illegal - what this is I don’t know - but she fears if she files for disability whatever it is will be exposed and she will be implicated, also. I’m assuming IRS problems, etc., and frankly, I told her to please not tell me what it is. </p>

<p>Imo, everything inside the house should be pitched but I know there are some things which were her 1st husbands that she wants her kids to have and regardless, she has no money to pay for storing 8 rooms of clutter. It has to be gone through. </p>

<p>She cannot afford an attorney, let alone a financial adviser. </p>

<p>She refuses to go to her sisters, brothers or parents. Her sister confirmed this to me.</p>

<p>Also, there is no way the daughter will be going anywhere. There is simply no money for that - and probably even college next year. I told her she needs to tell her daughter but she won’t. She told me the daughter already blames her for losing the life insurance money.</p>