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<p>Try again. Geeps stated that the media has edited the tape. The full version tells a different story…</p>
<p>I haven’t read the posts here, so sorry if it has already been covered.</p>
<p>But, it is interesting that the media was originally reporting that a white person had shot a black youth. Now they are reporting that it was a hispanic person who shot the black youth. </p>
<p>Whites committing violence against blacks makes for very classic racial issues. Hispanics committing violence against black…not so much. Neither is appropriate in any case.</p>
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<p>Talk about spin. No reasonable person, without an agenda, could interpret this as anything but the police telling him not to follow.</p>
<p>Hey, we finally have PROOF that Zimmerman needed that 9mm. The funeral director says that until the fatal shot Zimmerman didn’t land a blow in the violent altercation between himself and Martin:</p>
<p>[Martin</a> funeral director: No signs of fight on body - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/?tag=stack]Martin”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/?tag=stack)</p>
<p>Can we close this case now? Zimmerman was a Community Protector who was defenseless without his gun. Martin was a marijuana smoker and high school suspendee who didn’t give Zimmerman the respect the Protector deserved … and he ended up dead. Life in the Big Sanford.</p>
<p>(Reminds me of that song: “I fought the faux-law and the faux-law won.”)</p>
<p>Engineer - If you look back through twenty-five pages of posts, you’d find that most posters focus their ire on the Sanford Police Department. Killings are tragic, regardless of who the victim and perpetrator are. And there will always be differences of opinion as to motive and justification (or lack thereof). In America, the Justice System arbitrates these differences. Most posters feel the Sanford PD did a poor job with that.</p>
<p>Thank you LasMa, Sorghum and Lastminutemom. No reasonable person would believe that the police dispatcher’s admonition to Zimmerman is anything but a command not to follow Martin. Was that command enforcible? Clearly not. But Zimmerman and anyone else whom acts thusly have to be held responsible for the bad results that can ensue, which is why a thorough and complete investigation is warranted. I guarantee that if a police officer had been inadvertently shot by Zimmerman during the community watchman’s pursuit of Martin, there would certainly have been a better initial investigation and potentially severe repercussions for Zimmerman.</p>
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<p>Clearly, you’ve never grown up in a Hispanic neighborhood or known many of them. While there are some differences, the Black-White tensions do exist both within the Hispanic community and with non-Hispanic Blacks.</p>
<p>Is there a criminal law expert in the house? I think so much of the anger over this case is due to a lack of understanding of criminal procedure. My knowledge is rusty, and probably just good enough to be dangerous, but I think if people understood why the PD took the steps it did, there would be less consternation. Those with better credentials than mine, please step in:</p>
<p>Zimmerman <em>was</em> arrested. He was hand-cuffed, taken into custody by the police, transported by squad car to the station where he was questioned for 5 hours (I’m assuming those facts are correct). Once hand-cuffed, he was not free to leave, and that constitutes an arrest under the law. Whether the PD recorded it as an arrest is another question; and they may not have done this because under the SYG law, they are not even allowed to <em>arrest</em> a person, let alone charge them. Once they determined SYG applies, if they <em>arrested</em> Z, they may be subject to false arrest or civil rights violations charges. But for all intents and purposes, Z was initially treated as an <em>arrestee</em> in the same way Trayvon would have been if he had done the shooting.</p>
<p>Zimmerman was not held in a cell following his <em>arrest.</em> This is what people may be confusing with <em>being arrested.</em> This is not important. Many (or most?) criminal suspects are not arrested at the scene of the crime. They are later arrested when the prosecution files charges or after a grand jury hearing. That is when they are asked to surrender or the officers come out and get them. Even if Z was held in a cell pending trial, many (or most) suspects are freed on either their own recognizance or after posting bail. So the fact that Z is out free is also irrelevant, (unless he flees).</p>
<p>The prosecution is pursuing the case. There is a very good chance that Z will be arrested, held and tried.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure I’m a reasonable person; and one without an agenda. I am sickened that people walk around with guns, and that this bozo killed a young man walking through the neighborhood carrying skittles and tea. However, I don’t hear “OK, We don’t need you to do that” as an admonition, an order, or a command. It’s not the same as saying “Don’t”. FWIW.</p>
<p>[Martin</a> funeral director: No signs of fight on body - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/?tag=stack]Martin”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/?tag=stack)</p>
<p>The defense of George Zimmerman rests on a violent fight that he said occurred before he fired the shot that killed Trayvon Martin. </p>
<p>We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. “The hands – I didn’t see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there.”</p>
<p>And as a surveillance tape shows, George Zimmerman in handcuffs, 40 minutes after he killed Trayvon Martin. He seemed to show no apparent injuries, either. </p>
<p>Yet Zimmerman claims Martin beat him and threatened his life, so he shot the teenager in self-defense.</p>
<p>hops_scout, I agree with you that some in the media have not presented all the facts accurately. That’s almost always the case, particularly before all the story has emerged. </p>
<p>What I don’t understand is why so many seem to think that being fair means sliming Martin. With dozens of pictures of Martin now available, Drudge, Fox and many other such sites endlessly repeat stories of school suspensions and show pictures of him in a negative light, while never showing the pictures of him at a birthday party, or dressed for his prom. I was listening to Sean Hannity yesterday, and if I hadn’t heard the story already, I would have thought this was a story about Martin the felon attacking an innocent bystander.</p>
<p>“This is such an obvious case of fear taking over. Self appointed wannabe cop sees someone suspicious after a rash of break ins. Follows him, kid gets scared being followed and confronts him.”</p>
<p>Kid confronts him? Where are you getting that from? Zimmerman’s “friends?”</p>
<p>Imo, the more logical explanation is that Martin, who was not doing anything illegal and had no weapon on him or anything else which would suggest he was doing anything to warrant being followed, did not confront Zimmerman, until Zimmerman, who was chasing Martin who just so happened to have a gun on him, confronted him!</p>
<p>It will be 20 years next month since the Rodney King riots in L. A. As you will recall, they followed the acquittal of white police officers by a jury in the beating of a black driver. The black mayor of Los Angeles was ‘outraged’ by the verdict. The trial was preceded by endless running of the video of the beating and a constant barrage of cable news fomenting racial hatred. In the riots, some thirty people were killed and entire neighborhoods burned. </p>
<p>So now, I just wish cable news would drop this story. Let the investigators investigate. Stop trying to sow the seeds of racial hatred. When the legal process is complete, report that. And move on. Tell the story dispassionately. </p>
<p>There are other homicides out there to report on. Just last night some 20 people were shot in Chicago alone and two died. There is much more black on black crime in this country than white on black crime. Report that. Report on the poor school teacher in Vermont who was lured out of her house and strangled on a lonely road and then dumped into the river. Maybe the President could have a news conference about her. </p>
<p>The cable news ratings and the political agenda of keeping this Martin-Zimmerman hot are not worth another L. A. riot.</p>
<p>hayden - I am a conservative and must say that Sean Hannity is way too far to the right. His show is not categorized as news, but rather as “commentary”…but that doesn’t make it right. I try to ignore both him and MSNBC’s Ed Schultz from the left. In my opinion both these gentlemen do more harm than good.</p>
<p>I wish there was a media source we could turn to that would only focus on presenting the facts and realistic accounts of the issue.</p>
<p>Further Googling makes me conclude Bay is right about “arrest.” A person is arrested if he/she is detained by the police, and a reasonable person would think he/she couldn’t leave. Zimmerman was in handcuffs, so clearly he couldn’t leave. That constitutes an arrest, as Bay says.</p>
<p>He was not charged with any crime, as we know. </p>
<p>I also agree that NBC shouldn’t be editing the 911 tape. Even though I believe that Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin because Martin was black, that’s not what he said. He trumped up some story about Martin being on drugs (he wasn’t), or being up to no good (he wasn’t, and no one has given a plausible reason for Zimmerman to believe he was). </p>
<p>I don’t think Zimmerman consciously thought, this kid is black so he must be a criminal. On the other hand, this is not the first time Zimmerman saw a perfectly innocent-looking black youth, doing nothing to warrant suspicion, and in his mind saw a criminal. Who calls 911 for a 7-9 yo kid? How many non-black 8-year-olds did Zimmerman report to 911?</p>
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<p>Not necessarily. Someone could be taken in for questioning without necessarily being in handcuffs depending on procedures for certain suspected crimes/incidents and/or the individual has a firearm or otherwise perceived to be a potential danger to the cops in question. </p>
<p>When people are outraged that it has been a month and no arrest…they mean an arrest recognized legally and one which prompts a reasonably thorough investigation. Considering Zimmerman wasn’t even checked for drug/alcohol use as is standard in their own procedures for possible homicide cases and that police department’s dubious history of handling similar incidents/racial profiling…it’s no wonder there’s widespread outrage. </p>
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<p>Considering no meaningful investigation was taking place for over a month before media coverage and outraged concerned citizens placed pressure on the local, state, and Federal authorities and the dubious past history of local police/officials…I hope they don’t. If they do what you wished…they may find ways to quietly de-prioritize/shut down the investigation…especially considering they’ve had a history of doing so in the past.</p>
<p>If one wants to “stop hearing about these cases”…the worst way to go about it is to act like a stereotypical Ostrich or Sergeant Schultz from Hogan’s Heroes when he says “I see nothing! Nothing!”.</p>
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<p>The City of Sanford has posted a fair amount of information, including a letter from the Police Chief answering common questions about the incident, here:</p>
<p>[City</a> of Sanford](<a href=“http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html]City”>http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html)</p>
<p>See, “Important Notice - Trayvon Martin,” and “Trayvon Martin Investigation.” It includes the initial police report, 911 calls, and other information.</p>
<p>I read Edward Bennett’s Op Ed on the CNN web site. Not impressive. You’d think a former high government official wouldn’t stoop to smearing the victim and then calling for justice. Nope.</p>
<p>IMO people are upset due to cavalier attitude of the Sanford PD. You can almost hear the exchange at the station:
“Hey Sarge, what do you want me to do with this John Doe killing out at Twin Lakes?”
“File it. Move on to something important.”</p>
<p>Was that the conversation? Of course not. But the PD acted as if it was.</p>
<p>“No, no, we did a SERIOUS investigation. But after Judge Zimmerman’s kid filled in all the missing pieces for us there was really no need to go further.”</p>
<p>Mr. Zimmerman was taken into custody/investigative detention immediately
following the shooting. He continues to cooperate with investigators and is not under
arrest at this time.</p>
<p>This from the city of Sanford site Bay posted. Zimmerman was NOT arrested. This is the crux of the issue. Talk about waiting for the FACTS. </p>
<p>I find it offensive how a couple of parents on this thread are complaining about the liberal media, however are apparently joining the conservative media in maligning this young man, claiming Martin was not the innocent cherubic teen, and pointing to his suspension(s), (believe there was only one anyway). This while complaining that Zimmerman looked like a thug in his photo, there’s a reason he looked like a thug, the photo was a mug shot taken after one of his arrests!</p>