<p>Okay, hopscout, you are right. </p>
<p>There’s not a thing wrong with what happened in this case. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Look, this guy was told not to follow Trayvon and he did. In my opinion, and in the opinion of a lot of people, this is not the same as someone breaking into your house or following YOU. This is not stand your ground and it isn’t self-defense.</p>
<p>If you think it is, that’s fantastic. I’m sure they’ve got a job and a gun and shield waiting for you down in Florida.</p>
<p>I think I know why George Zimmerman has gone into hiding. He needs time to grow his hair out, to hide the obvious fact that he doesn’t have the gashes on the back of his head that his father has claimed.</p>
<p>But then, if Z’s head had been bashed repeatedly against the concrete, he would have been sent to the hospital for evaluation at least, rather than the police station.</p>
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<p>I don’t see the point in making this kind of statement. None of us was a witness, none of us is judge or jury, none of us gets to declare what the law is in Florida. At this point we have no clue whether either or both of these men acted in self defense as that concept is defined under applicable law. And whether we approve or not, Florida has a “stand your ground” law that may or may not be determined to apply here. I think it’s time to dial down the media coverage and let the various investigators do their job. I don’t know whether Zimmerman committed a crime; neither does anyone else here.</p>
<p>In the interest of accuracy (not that accuracy seems much of a concern in this case), I’ll add that 1) the police did not tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin–they told him they didn’t need him to follow Martin–not the same; and 2) some analysis of the videotape has indeed revealed that there is some kind of mark on the back of Zimmerman’s head.</p>
<p>These smug comments that we should just let judge and jury do their job make me want to start throwing crockery around. Hello? Zimmerman hasn’t been arrested. If not for the media frenzy, if not for the parents taking the story public, there would have been no investigation, so we would never have had a chance to let any jury do their job, now would we? </p>
<p>If in your opinion someone should be able to get off a murder charge just by saying it was self-defense with no investigation as to whether the claim had merit, you might think that’s just dandy, but the rest of us want to see this situation investigated, and charges brought if the investigation merits.</p>
<p>Zimmerman may have had visible injuries. If so, that should be easy to demonstrate, because the police would have taken pictures of those visible injuries, or at least the paramedics who cleaned him up would be able to testify to the matter.</p>
<p>I don’t fully understand the Stand Your Ground laws. If I don’t like someone, can I pay a person to pick a fight with my enemy, start losing the fight, shoot my enemy and walk away scot free?</p>
<p>actually, apparently, according the statute in florida, which was posted earlier in the thread, yes. You can.</p>
<p>You can claim stand your ground if you start a fight but demonstrate by putting your hands in the air that you don’t want to fight anymore. </p>
<p>You actually can.</p>
<p>How 'bout that. So, you attack someone, scare the heck out of them and when they can’t turn it off when YOU want to stop the fight, you can actually kill them. No investigation required.</p>
<p>Quite a law.</p>
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<p>On the first…even the drafter of that very SYG law stated that it wasn’t intended to cover situations such as Zimmerman following Martin around. </p>
<p>More importantly, considering the local police has had a past history of racial profiling/bias in investigating/neglecting to investigate previous similar incidents, Zimmerman still has not been arrested after around a month after the incident, Zimmerman wasn’t tested for drugs/alcohol as would be standard for a potential homocide case, the fact a detective who didn’t believe Zimmerman and wanted to arrest him for manslaughter was deterred by higher ups, and Zimmerman possibly being protected by a father with high social status(being a former judge). </p>
<p>I don’t know about you…but at the very least…the above information IMHO should arouse some suspicion as to the reliability and professionalism of the local police and officials. It also fits how “good old boys” liked by local elites/authorities in stereotypical small rural towns are protected from being prosecuted if the victims are marginalized, unpopular, or “outsiders”/minorities. </p>
<p>More importantly, your comments demonstrates a lack of awareness of how a heavyset man who couldn’t possibly be easily identified as a law enforcement official, neighborhood watch volunteer, or anyone else other than a stalker with an intent to harm…especially considering this all took place on a dark February night. </p>
<p>As someone who grew up in 1980’s era NYC…if someone fitting that description was following me like that…I’m going to assume he’s going to mug me and act accordingly.</p>
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<p>1) You seriously believe that the 911 dispatcher was giving Zimmerman tacit approval to pursue?<br>
2) The “mark” if there is one (I don’t see anything on the back of that dude’s head) is completely inconsistent with someone who’s had his head repeatedly bashed against concrete. And as I said above, if he HAD had his head repeatedly bashed against concrete, the police would have sent him to the hospital to be checked for head injury.</p>
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<p>It’s not even that complicated. You don’t have to get anyone else involved, don’t have to pick a fight. All you have to do is get the person alone; as Zimmerman is finding out, witnesses are inconvenient. You kill the person, and then claim to police that you “felt” threatened. Note that you don’t actually have to have BEEN threatened. It’s your word against a dead guy’s; who’s going to contradict how you “felt”? And yes, you just got away with murder.</p>
<p>[Number</a> of “stand your ground” cases rises as legislators rethink law - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com](<a href=“http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708767/number-of-stand-your-ground-cases.html]Number”>http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708767/number-of-stand-your-ground-cases.html)</p>
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<p>Police tend to use the word ‘need’ as a direct command.</p>
<p>“I need you to step away from that vee-hickill” is not merely an advisory suggestion.</p>
<p>Did you hear the 911 tape? It was a simple “We don’t need you to do that.” A far cry from an order not to follow him. Everyone wants the facts to fit their own personal narrative. The commonly published photo of Martin makes him look like a cherubic ten year old–turns out it’s not current and that cherub has multiple school suspensions. The published photo of Zimmerman makes him look like a thug–I suspect his family has some far more attractive snapshots available at home. It’s all just spin, spin, spin. With all the law enforcement investigations now underway, we should all stop insisting that we know everything because we saw a video on TV or heard a tale from someone claims to have been a witness. Nobody here has all the facts. Look, I’m horrified that a neighborhood watch person would be carrying a gun. I think gated communities are ridiculous. I believe the stand your ground law is poorly conceived. But none of those beliefs confer on me the ability to judge Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence.</p>
<p>Clearly, the 911 operator was telling Zimmerman not to follow. Listen carefully to the tape. </p>
<p>Zimmerman put himself in this position – I have absolutely no empathy for him. Even if he believed he was in danger, he didn’t need to be there, the police were on the way. Zimmerman had no reason to get out of his car.</p>
<p>The Sanford Police videos of Zimmerman entering the police building begin 34 minutes after he fired the gun that killed Martin, according to a report on the Today Show.</p>
<p>34 minutes after the shooting.</p>
<p>Not a lot of time to get cleaned up from the beating he claims he took.</p>
<p>“But none of those beliefs confer on me the ability to judge Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence.”</p>
<p>Kind of hard to determine guilt or “not guiltedness” when there’s no arrest. Until “the wheels of justice” begin turning, people are free to form their own opinions, correct? It’s not like anyone’s compromising Zimmerman’s right to a fair trial … or right to shoot another unarmed teen under similar circumstances, correct? Some think the best of Zimmerman, some think less. It’s all just talk … except for the Martin family.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Martin and Zimmerman fought, and that Zimmerman truly felt threatened. The problem is, of course, Zimmerman brought the confrontation on himself by following Martin such that Martin felt threatened. Zimmerman’s judgment is highly suspect, at the very least.</p>
<p>And that’s the larger problem: not that the SYG law is good or bad, but that prosecutors and grand jurors are interpreting it as an excuse for behavior that would otherwise merit further action. The law has put the burden of proof on a dead person who cannot testify on his own behalf. And that means the law needs to be amended, or the people in the legal system needs to be educated.</p>
<p>If this incident does one good thing, it would be to restore the sense in jurors and prosecutors that the winner in a fight is not necessarily always in the right.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure there’s many who think the “best of Zimmerman.” I won’t claim to do so. I just do not believe it is our position to judge him from all over the country knowing nothing about the laws of the specific area or knowing the situation that led to the incident.</p>
<p>“Gee… it seems you have a different definition of “investigation” than others?”</p>
<p>And a thorough, professional investigation it was … so good in fact, that the results can’t be released without embarrassing every other Police Department in the country.</p>
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<p>sure no liberal media bias…do people really believe there is no bias?..or are they aware and just pretend there isn’t?. What NBC is playing is despicable.</p>
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<p>You have to wonder what else the media is hiding…</p>
<p>“What NBC is playing is despicable.”</p>
<p>Fine. It’s despicable. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. “Here’s how to take out a black kid and not even be charged! We take you inside SYG … street justice in Sanford.”</p>
<p>geeps, that is apparently what the guy said. Are you saying they doctored the tapes? Or are you saying that they ought to hide what he actually said?</p>
<p>But we know that if Zimmerman had followed YOUR son and shot him dead you would be absolutely fine with it, right? And you wouldn’t want the media to be interested in it, or report what he said about your son while he stalked and killed him…sure.</p>