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<p>She didn’t have a concussion. She had a epidural hematoma. It is not the same thing.</p>
<p>“never, it’s not the standard of care”</p>
<p>hmm…I beg to differ. by your language you seem to be implying an expertise. do you have a medical degree? from your posts I know this is not accurate. </p>
<p>as a parent, and a health professional, going to the ER following a head injury is absolutely the appropriate course of action.</p>
<p>I wasn’t surprised. I actually almost posted about the possibility of 2nd degree murder a couple of days ago when there was some discussion about possible manslaughter charges, but decided against it simply because I didn’t want to start a renewed argument about what the evidence as we knew it could support. But I definitely see how that charge can be supported, if we assume that the prosecution has assembled some evidence beyond what has been publicly reported. I’m wondering if there is a witness who can offer a more detailed ear-witness account, given how much can be heard on the 911 tape. I mean, if in fact it is Trayvon who is screaming for help, and if Zimmerman was heard to make angry or threatening statements – that would present a very different picture, and certainly one that could support a murder charge. (I think it is very plausible that there was a scuffle or confrontation of some sort, which resulted in Zimmerman becoming enraged, and shooting in anger rather than fear. )</p>
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<p>I am a Certified Athletic Trainer. We deal with sports-related concussions regularly and are on the forefront of concussion recognition and management. I am a licensed healthcare provider, one of two professions recognized by the Illinois High School Association and state law to manage concussions.</p>
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<p>The only thing an ER doctor is going to do that I cannot do “in the field” is do an MRI or a CT Scan. Neither of those can “confirm” or “rule out” a concussion. But if you choose to subject your kids to unnecessary radiation and waste your money, that’s your right.</p>
<p>Second degree murder:</p>
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<p>So I guess (help me out, lawyers) that manslaughter is doing something that results in a death and that you could reasonably know would result in death, but not intending to kill someone. Like driving drunk-- you know you could kill someone, but you don’t get behind the wheel drunk intending to kill someone.</p>
<p>Second degree murder, I think, requires the perpetrator to intentionally kill. So, I guess the theory here is that while Zimmerman did not go after Martin intending to shoot him, at the time Zimmerman shot Martin, he intended to kill.</p>
<p>And obviously, Zimmerman’s defense would be that it was self-defense.</p>
<p>hopscout—next time one of my kids has a head injury I’ll give you a call instead of heading to the nearest ER. ;)</p>
<p>Hpscout, your kid can’t even go back and play unless he or she is cleared by an MD. All the athletic trainer can do is tell the kid they have to get cleared by an MD.</p>
<p>In the case of concussions, the regs are just getting tighter and tighter, too. And, when the kid has a concussion, they have to be checked out by a neurologist in order to be cleared to play.</p>
<p>Now back to our regularly scheduled thread.</p>
<p>There is quite a bit of evidence that we know exists, on the bullets and trajectories, the condition of Trayvon’s body and Z’s body, Z’s medical records or lack of records. We don’t know what this evidence shows, but the prosecutor does. She also has Z’s statement from the night of the shooting and all the witness accounts.</p>
<p>I agree NYMom2.</p>
<p>on another note re: Z’s hospital records or lack thereof, does anyone know if a police department has a responsibility to bring someone to a hospital if they are claiming a head injury. it would seem a liability if they didn’t do so. if I recall, they ordered an ambulance for him, but then turned it away. this was a point I found very strange, if one’s head was repeatedly pounded into a concrete sidewalk.</p>
<p>wondering, what did others think of Al Sharpton’s speech following the prosecutor’s press conference? at first I wanted him to simply step aside and give Trayvon’s parents the stage, but I was pleased to hear him express initially not trusting Rick Scott, Fl Gov, but now respecting the process, he spoke of the good that can come when people work together, and also reminded the public that the parents’ pressure and the public outcry was required to get the second look at the case.</p>
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<p>Like I said, if you want to waste your time and money at the ER for something like that, have fun. Chances are the doctor isn’t going to do any imaging and is going to claim your kid does not have a concussion regardless of signs/symptoms present.</p>
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<p>Wrong, in the state of Illinois at least. That may vary by state…</p>
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<p>Wrong again.</p>
<p>Here’s copied from the IHSA policy with regards to concussions:
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<p>State law passed last summer mandates IHSA members to abide by IHSA policy…</p>
<p>Is there an ongoing investigation into the way this case was originally handled? </p>
<p>I mean if the special prosecutor believes there is enough evidence to bring Murder two charges, surely something was amiss in the original “investigation” and findings?</p>
<p>hops_scout, how do you know that a head injury is “only” a concussion and not bleeding in the brain? The treatment for concussion is to take it easy and avoid re-injuring the brain, right?</p>
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<p>Be careful not to overstep hopscout and make sure you work in conjuntion with the physician. I know you are young and living with your parents and you need to understand you can lose everything if you are not careful about that. I have a recruited athlete and I can tell you that I never once had a trainer clear her to come back to play until she was seen by a medical doctor, and for very good reason.</p>
<p>Oh, and I live in Illinois and know the IHSA does not mean that athletic trainers can clear a student to return to play after a major injury, and a concussion is considered to be a major injury these days.</p>
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<p>Signs and symptoms.</p>
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<p>You mean the family physician that told my athlete she didn’t have a concussion and the symptoms were caused by her back? Guess what… I am conservative with concussions, but I also approach them correctly unlike the physicians in this area who “sit two weeks and then go back at it.”</p>
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<p>How much would you like to bet on that? I have released two from concussions in the last month and have ruled out an athlete having a concussion in the last week. It’s what I do on a regular basis-- that’s my job. I fully know the rules of the IHSA and the state law.</p>
<p>Well, I’m very glad to hear you are diligent. Especially about concussions. I don’t need to tell you that the long term effects we are seeing down the road are very alarming. When my D had a concussion I took her to a neurologist, which is what was recommended at the ER after the CAT scan and MRI. No lasting damage, fortunately.</p>
<p>The main reason for you to be careful, though, is just to protect yourself and your career. My daughter loves her trainers, btw, always such a great group of people. I’m sure you have a following of athletes at school. It’s good work.</p>
<p>ETA: after reading your last post. You should be careful making those calls, hopscout. The trainers around here never do that. You really need to make sure you protect yourself.</p>
<p>poetgrl–I was wondering the same thing about the Sanford PD. Corey was asked this question during the press conference, on this issue she appeared to be taking the “company line” indicating that the PD hadn’t completed their investigation, that she then took over the investigation, continuing “their” started investigation. She stated it is not unusual to not have an immediate arrest. I hope this issue along with a serious review of SYG is not dropped.</p>
<p>hopscout–you sound like you are trying to convince us that you in fact handle head injuries better than M.D.s. Long term you’d want to have a positive respect for other health professionals…careers develop better that way.</p>
<p>I completely agree Myturnnow.</p>
<p>I would like to see a complete review of the SYG laws in this country come about because of this case. I think castle laws make sense, but this law goes beyond what I would consider rational self-defense. It’s rather frightening, imho.</p>
<p>And, I imagine the system in Sanford will be revamped, at this point, regardless. They will be under such a microscope for years to come.</p>
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<p>What I’m trying to do is educate the public who think “trainers” are just glorified coaches or something. But we’re healthcare professionals and concussions are a specialty for our profession.</p>
<p>I know what trainers do. I love trainers, they have been the only ones who have ever been able to convince my stubborn athlete to sit down for five minutes to be “checked out.” She stops in to see her trainer every morning before she goes to advisory and they email me back and forth. She’s a “real” athlete, so they have a rapport.</p>
<p>But, just protect yourself. Make sure not to get trapped into a situation with litigious parents. We live in an area full of attorneys, which may be why our trainers always send the kids to the MD.</p>
<p>I am hoping that the SYG law in Florida be revised to include the duty to “retreat” which exists in other states with SYG laws. </p>
<p>In some of those states, gun-owners still have a duty to “retreat” — to avoid violent confrontation if possible — outside their homes. But in some states, like Florida, the law contains no such provision. “Florida was their testing ground,” says Malte, “and what the NRA has done is they’ve tried to nationalize Florida’s law.”</p>
<p>Read more: [Beyond</a> Trayvon Martin: How ‘Stand Your Ground’ Laws Spread from Florida to Half the U.S. | Swampland | TIME.com](<a href=“Beyond Trayvon Martin: How 'Stand Your Ground' Laws Spread from Florida to Half the U.S. | TIME.com”>Beyond Trayvon Martin: How 'Stand Your Ground' Laws Spread from Florida to Half the U.S. | TIME.com)</p>