<p>He has been charged with 2nd degree murder.</p>
<p>Uh…You’re late to the party, greenwitch. That’s no longer breaking news.</p>
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<p>What does “in conjunction with” mean?</p>
<p>from the article myturnnow linked up above: </p>
<p><a href=“Beyond Trayvon Martin: How 'Stand Your Ground' Laws Spread from Florida to Half the U.S. | TIME.com”>Beyond Trayvon Martin: How 'Stand Your Ground' Laws Spread from Florida to Half the U.S. | TIME.com;
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<p>interestingly, his own attorney says SYG does not apply in this case. </p>
<p>So, I do hope there is an ongoing investigation into what happened at the sanford PD. Whether it was because Z’s father is a judge, or systemic racism, something went terribly wrong in this case.</p>
<p>In answer to several questions about whether or not the original Sanford police department investigation/decision not to charge is being investigated, I am not sure. I’ve read conflicting information about whether the Justice Dept. is doing this (besides looking into whether the shooting was a hate crime).</p>
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I would think that precisely because of liability issues, police would definitely seek a medical evaluation for anyone claiming to have been beaten the way Zimmerman’s family described it. My guess is that the story that Zimmerman told the police about his injuries was not quite as extreme as his family (father & brother) later reported to the media.</p>
<p>wanted to share a personal experience…I mentioned earlier having watched Angela Corey, special prosecutor’s press conference while at my gym. I was moved when I heard her speak of Trayvon as a victim, and teared up as I heard the charges and heard her speak of Trayvon’s sweet parents. I turned to the young man on the bike next to mine, took off my headphones and said, “murder two, he’s charged with murder two, how did this take so long to charge him”. He looked so surprised, both at the charges and at the tears in my eyes. It was a poignant moment as I realized that this young man, (who was black,and I am white) was surprised I was passionately relieved to know Z was finally being charged. </p>
<p>I hope it gave him a moment of peace to know that despite those sad statistics showing a black and white divide on this issue, there is no question in my heart and many others here that Trayvon deserved justice.</p>
<p>I’d also add that if the Zimmerman family had a lick of sense, they would keep family members off t.v. Zimmerman’s brother has been doing a good job of digging a very big hole, and is continuing to do so by spouting off. There is no “sibling privilege” to protect communications between brothers, meaning the brother can be called to testify as to what George Zimmerman told him. The story the brother tells is clearly false because it is internally inconsistent- so one way or another he may end up being an unwilling witness forced to impeach whatever Zimmerman says on the witness stand.</p>
<p>Tough case for the defense at this point because unless there is a favorable witness to the altercation, the only feasible way to win a self-defense claim is for the defendant to testify – and the last thing any defense lawyer wants is a long trail of inconsistent prior statements as to what happened.</p>
<p>That’s a neat story, myturnnow. As Trayvon’s mom said in the press statement after the Ms. Corey’s announcement:</p>
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<p>Has the brother been “spouting off?” since George’s arrest for 2nd degree murder? I wonder if GZ’s former counsel advised the Zimmerman family to zip it once George’s father and younger brother began granting TV interviews concerning the case. If not, I’m guessing Mr. O’Mara (a man who strikes me as an immanently competent attorney) certainly has. It is indeed a very bad idea. But, who knows…it may be that GZ’s seeming propensity to ignore instructions is a family trait. And as you say, the damage my have already been done. Btw, what are the specific “internal inconsistencies” that show the brother’s account to be clearly false?</p>
<p>A side note: GZ’s latest mug shot is infinitely more flattering than one taken in the wake of his later dropped “assaulting an officer/interfering with an arrest” charges.</p>
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<p>I don’t appreciate your brushing off the notion that someone with a potential head injury should be sent to the hospital. Not all of us can tell just by looking at someone whether they’re OK or they have a concussion, or worse. Unless a medical professional is standing by, it seems prudent to me that someone who claims their head has been repeatedly banged against concrete ought to be seen by an MD. And the fact that neither Z nor the police thought that he needed to be seen by an MD raises questions about how serious his injuries really were.</p>
<p>Yes Trayvon’s mother’s comments were beautiful. These parents have shown great restraint and grace. I sensed from Corey’s speech that she had shown compassion and respect to these parents, that is an important element and I was pleased to see that</p>
<p>Sent from my MB860 using CC</p>
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<p>Indeed. In fact, that might be one of the “internal inconsistencies” of which calmom speaks.</p>
<p>Yes, I can picture police encouraging Z to go in the ambulance to be checked out and Z shrugging it off saying, nah I’m okay, and they turn the ambulance away. He may have been too foolish and/or arrogant to realize what that revealed. </p>
<p>Sent from my MB860 using CC</p>
<p>I can see that too, myturnnow. Although if someone is disoriented from a head injury, wouldn’t the police just send them to ER despite the person brushing it off? So maybe the cops on scene agreed with him that the injury wasn’t bad, which again, speaks volumes.</p>
<p>Am I remembering correctly that the first we heard about this supposed head-banging was from Z’s father, a month after the fact? The shifting, expanding story really does seem as though it was being concocted on the fly, as the pressure intensified.</p>
<p>I am surprised that the attorneys were allowed to be released from the case as in HI, it takes a court order for such a release. Generally in HI, withdrawal isn’t allowed unless it’s a withdrawal & substitution of new counsel. I can certainly understand why the attorneys want to withdraw if the client refuses to keep in contact and refuses to follow instructions, especially with regard to publicity and talking with opposing counsel.</p>
<p>The prosecutor is showing great character and compassion from everything I’ve read on this page of the thread. Trayvon’s parents sound like very nice people. I’m glad the prosecutor acknowledged them as such.</p>
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As there were no charges pending against Zimmerman at the time the other “attorneys” were involved, they could not have entered an appearance on behalf of Zimmerman – therefore nothing to withdraw or be “released” from.</p>
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Yes, I saw him interviewed at length on CNN last night, in a rather excruciating way, with Piers Morgan.
I would have thought so, but there he was.
In the interview last night Robert Zimmerman appears to have backed off of the head-smashed into the concrete story – every time he was asked about that and the apparent lack of injuries in the police videos, he changed the subject. </p>
<p>Now his story seems to be that George Zimmerman was being suffocated, apparently because of the idea that “breathing problems” would not result in visible injuries. The tape of the 911 call with the screaming was played, and Robert Zimmerman insisted that it was George Zimmerman screaming on the tape, and that the reason he was screaming was that he could not breathe, because Trayvon Martin was sitting on his chest and had his hands over Zimmerman’s mouth.</p>
<p>Watched the CBS morning show, and I was so impressed with how everyone carried themselves – Martin’s parents, their lawyer, Zimmerman’s new lawyer. Gayle King made an observation, that what started out as an issue for many of black and white became an issue of right and wrong. So much relief.</p>
<p>I am not hearing anything that makes me think Ms. King is correct. I am intrigued that the charge against Z seems to have had an additional polarizing effect. Until there is some showing by the prosecution of additional previously undisclosed facts to warrant these charges, I predict that there is going to be a lot of argument that this charge was motivated by the effort to characterize this as a race case and is “political.” From the little internet scanning I have done on this, it seems to be enough to spur some people to donate to Z’s defense.</p>
<p>I wonder if the 2nd degree elements, if found by the jury, basically lets the SYG law off the hook? The argument will be (as many of the law’s proponents have already stated) SYG does not apply to these very particular facts. The 2nd degree element of mental state will overshadow the basic riskiness of the SYG law.</p>
<p>I posted earlier about the fact that the SYG issue can be raised pre-trial. That means Z can pitch it to the judge early in the game to force the prosecutor to show his or her cards on why it was not reasonable to use force under the circumstances. Better than a Brady motion, the defense gets to hear the state’s case. If the judge doesn’t dismiss the charges, Z still gets to raise SYG for the jury. </p>
<p>Judges at the trial level are elected. I wonder what the local voters’ feelings are on this? Anyone know what the political profile of the Orlando voters is? I did see where in that one case I previously mentioned, the Florida judge dismissed the charges. </p>
<p>Personally, I agree with Bill Cosby. It is the gun (carry) and I would add the SYG law that should be the societal issue. If Z is convicted, I have a concern that the furor over carry and SYG will abate.</p>