<p>I’m wondering if, truthfully, people are more comfortable in the megachurch (as an example) because it is a place they are sure others will share their world/social/religious (and likely political) views.</p>
<p>When push comes to shove, people seem to prefer others like themselves, and communal experiences that require little tolerance of diverse thinking or individual differences.</p>
<p>Info on Robert Putnam’s “Bowling Alone,” which was referred to in an earlier post.</p>
<p>" Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community by Robert D. Putnam (New York: Simon & Schuster, 2000).
In a groundbreaking book based on vast new data, Putnam shows how we have become increasingly disconnected from family, friends, neighbors, and our democratic structures-- and how we may reconnect. </p>
<p>Putnam warns that our stock of social capital - the very fabric of our connections with each other, has plummeted, impoverishing our lives and communities. Putnam draws on evidence including nearly 500,000 interviews over the last quarter century to show that we sign fewer petitions, belong to fewer organizations that meet, know our neighbors less, meet with friends less frequently, and even socialize with our families less often. We’re even bowling alone. More Americans are bowling than ever before, but they are not bowling in leagues. Putnam shows how changes in work, family structure, age, suburban life, television, computers, women’s roles and other factors have contributed to this decline. "
<a href=“Bowling Alone”>Bowling Alone;
<p>it isn’t finding people * just like them*
It is the[Free</a> Internets!]( <a href=“http://www.seattlequest.org/qcafepress.html]Free”>http://www.seattlequest.org/qcafepress.html)</p>
<p>Another element to all this is time. To begin and cultivate friendships takes time.</p>
<p>I think most parents today would say that they are generally “busier” than their parents. This may be a chicken or egg thing. Has being so busy cut into our friendship time, our relationship time, our community time? Or do we seek to be busy to fill a “hole in the soul”?</p>
<p>But then again, look at all the people using cellphones around you at any one moment. Not only business people staying contact with the office or clients but also the people in the supermarket, at the ball game, or just doing other ordinary things. I used to say that people couldn’t stand to hear their own thoughts and felt the need to talk to someone. Not that the communication is usually meaningful, but perhaps it is a kind of reaching out.</p>
<p>My mother had six children in eight years. She was far busier that I am with two children and one full on business.</p>
<p>I enjoy people, but I also enjoy time alone, so I have to make an effort to socialize. However, I socialize much more than most people I know. We entertain others almost weekly, but get return invites perhaps once every couple months? </p>
<p>We noticed a big difference when we moved from PA to GA. In PA, people got together all the time. Tailgating, coffee, big game parties, etc. The first 6 weeks we lived in Pittsburgh, we had dinner at a different home after church every single Sunday. When we moved to Georgia, we had dinner at someone else’s home perhaps once in the first year! Although many folks talk about “Southern Hospitality” - it really doesn’t extend to strangers very easily.</p>
<p>It took me quite awhile to make friends in Germany, obviously in part because of the language problem. But the friends I have made here are probably now friends for life. They have told us of a saying here about Germans vs. Americans. Germans are Coconuts, Americans are Peaches. Germans are tough to crack, but once you do, you get all the way in. Americans are easy on the outside, but there’s always a core you don’t penetrate. They said Americans have many friends, but more superficially. Germans have only one or two, but very close.</p>
<p>This is certainly true for me. I have friends that fill different “niches.” Friends who share child-raising experiences. Friends who share expat experiences. Friends who share religious experiences. Friends who share music experiences. And so on. I value each of my friends for something different.</p>
<p>I absolutely hate to talk on the phone. So that is the hardest part for me of maintaining a friendship. I do better with pre-scheduled events – regular coffees, or book clubs, or church activities. Since I’ve been relegated to email since moving abroad, I have actually developed deeper friendships with a handful of people back home, because we communicate more often, and more deeply.</p>
<p>I think there are many reasons why friendships aren’t as common in the US as they used to be – most have already been stated in previous posts. I haven’t worked more than part-time since I got married, and most of my friends are similar; I assume that full-time workers are developing their friendships at work? I know my H isn’t as social as me, but he gets plenty of people contact at work, so doesn’t “need” it elsewhere. </p>
<p>I’ve also met a fair number of folks who give off the message “I don’t need any help” - which includes most of the things friendships are made up of - from needing advice, to borrowing a cup of sugar, to accepting a birthday gift. The fiercely independent people don’t open up very easily.</p>
<p>Interesting thoughts binx</p>
<p>I have a cousin who commutes btwn Hamburg and North Carolina a couple of times a month. He is married to a German woman. He talks about the difficulty of getting to know Germans but also seems to have a few very good friends.</p>
<p>Loved the peaches and coconut analogy. Maybe that’s what meant by a Georgia peach? My dad used to say southerners were incredibly hospitable but they were never going to give an outsider the job. Chalk this up to the Scotch roots of the South? The Scottish are darned suspicious of strangers.</p>
<p>American baby boomers are poor socializers. Many never return an invite. So gauche! Others never bother to RSVP. Grrrrrrr. </p>
<p>Phone haters do have it tough. I love to talk on the phone. I am also a decent email correspondent. I do all of these things during work hours. Thank God I own the company! Past clients became close friends. One of my best friends is a past client.</p>
<p>I am very lucky to have a group of female friends (around 14) who began because we had kids the same age around 17 years ago when we were all in our 20’s and starting out. We started a Bunco (dice game) group that got together once a month. It morphed into a “mental health night” complete with wine, food and no dice. We still get together every month and now travel together at least once a year, usually a 3 or 4 day road trip. We have a ball together and have grown as adults and moms, a few of us have divorced, some have had some pretty serious kid issues, etc. What makes it nice is that it is a safe group where we can really let our hair down and truly say what is going on. No phoniness allowed. And, the group is totally trustworthy, what is said at “Bunco” stays at “Bunco”. </p>
<p>Even though we live very busy lives, we MAKE time to get together. It is so worth it.</p>
<p>I also think about how our generation is the first to be able to plan our pregnancies and delay child bearing. Some of my friends had their first child at 24 while others did so when over 40 so we lost touch because our life cycles were on different paths since parents of toddlers tend to interact with one another and empty nesters do the same. Here I am on this board with 16 and 20 yr old childen while my oldest and dearest friend is on the opposite coast with a six yr old and fretting about Kindergarten.</p>
<p>ag54:
I have belonged to a book group for at least 15 years. We have also travelled and seen each other through divorces, kid issues new jobs, etc. Sometimes we don’t even talk about the book :)</p>
<p>It is good to have folks who knew me when I still thought I had some control over things!</p>
<p>I had an interesting experience with friendship last year. My father died last April. I flew to PA and got there just before he died. That week was very tough (without my H and kids), made easier by unexpected long-ago friendships. My childhood friend, whom I haven’t seen in years, my HS boyfriend and HS best friend (now married to each other) who live in NY and generally only communicate with Christmas cards, and my college roommate (who lives in Ohio) all came to the funeral and spent time with me. In each case, we picked up where we left off (well, except for the ex-boyfriend!) </p>
<p>At the same time, people I would have considered closer friends didn’t call, send cards, send flowers – nothing. My husband’s brother and sister didn’t even acknowledge it! (Brother’s wife sent me a short email a week or two later. Sister has never mentioned it at all.)</p>
<p>I put it up to the fact that death is a tough issue for folks, and people have different priorities in friendship. And out of sight, out of mind. But the folks who came, and took me out to lunch, or spent an afternoon with me – those friendships have a different bond now.</p>
<p>“And out of sight, out of mind.” </p>
<p>How true are these words. Sorry to hear of your loss. I hope your father is near Him.</p>
<p>binx, it is true that in times of extreme need, you sometimes find out who your true friends are. I have found that the people who come to you with open hearts and time to just sit and talk, without any expectations, are my real friends. The ones who come expecting to hear gossip or revel in my pain (I live in Payton Place where everybody knows everybody else’s business), I call “casserole people” They are the first to show up with a casserole, but all they want is the dirt. Those people are not true friends.</p>
<p>ag54, I have a similar situation with a group of wonderful friends that has been ‘together’ since our kids were all in nursery school. Some of us have moved away and then back and yet this group continues. We have a weekly morning coffee ‘date’, same place/same time so whomever is available can show up. We have an on again, off again book club/movie club. We email each other frequently, although most of us live in the same community now. Once a year, we all go away together for what started as a weekend and now has expanded to almost a week! No husbands, no kids, no dogs, just us, talking, laughing, eating, drinking, cooking, reading, hiking, antiquing, whatever we want to do. Some of our group comes to this gathering from as far as 3000 miles away but it’s rare than anyone would miss it. At the end of the lonnnng weekend, we set a date for the following year so there’s no excuse for planning something else at that time. :)</p>
<p>When I went away to college many moons ago, my mother wisely told me that I would meet many people in the coming years but that if I ended up with a handful of wonderful, true lifelong friends, then I’d be a lucky person indeed. I probably rolled my eyes at her at the time, but I know exactly what she meant now! And I’m fortunate enough to have that circle of friends.</p>
<p>binx, I’m sorry for your loss, and the behavior of some of your friends. I had a similar experience years ago which I’ve never forgotten. We had a baby born prematurely and she didn’t live for long. It was a devastating time in our lives. One of my best friends never so much as called me, sent a card, and to this day has never acknowledged what happened. I understand how people feel uncomfortable with the subject of death, but honestly, how difficult is it to write a few words on a sympathy card. We grew apart after that, which was partially caused because we moved but I never felt as close to her again, which is sad.</p>
<p>Im sorry to hear that alwaysamom
Our daughter was born 10 weeks early, which was difficult, but I think that many people really don’t know what to say, and by the time they realize that they really have to just say * something*, they might feel like it is past the time to do that.
Our neighbor is currently going through a very difficult time and receiving callous treatment from her adult daughter and her longtime roommate.
I told her that instead of expecting people close to her, to read her mind ( even though I agree they are acting callously), she needs to be very clear about what she needs them to say or do.
THis isn’t going to make them do it obviously, but at least she can be an advocate for what she needs.
I admit I never learned teh “rules” of behavior, and if I feel like calling a friend, I do, even if it is “her turn” to call.
( as long as I am not making a pest out of myself)
I have few friends from when my oldest was young, several of my best friends are different parts of country and we barely stay in touch, although when we do it is like I saw them last week.</p>
<p>Personally, I get my energy from being alone, I am not that social, and I married a man who is even less social than I am & I think I did that on purpose, because the other guys I dated were generally * more social* and that was exhausting after a while!</p>
<p>There was an article in the town newspaper about a local citizen developing new software. The purpose of this software was so that people could volunteer to help in a crisis (for example, a family where one of the parents is receiving cancer treatment) *without having to contact the family<a href=“ie,%20sign%20up%20to%20deliver%20a%20casserole%20without%20actually%20speaking%20to%20anyone”>/i</a>.</p>
<p>I think this is symptomatic of how the art of knowing and caring for neighbors seems to have been lost – to the point where it is being reinvented.</p>
<p>wow fendrock, that is pretty wild! It is certainly a nice way to volunteer with very good intentions, and I know it would help out the people involved, but the lack of connecting in any way seems kind of robotic. </p>
<p>That is so strange to me, because where I live, honestly people are in your business all the time. If something bad was happening in my life, everyone in my community would know about it (and be talking about it) even if they didn’t know me directly. This has its good points, but also bad. I remember once being at a junior high meeting where the principal was talking about how the best thing abour our community was how we really care about each other and know what’s going on in each other’s families. I was sitting by my friend who was going through a divorce at the time and having some issues with her kids, and she muttered under her breath, “It’s also the worst!”</p>
<p>That’s what I like about my bunco group, they know all the bad stuff, commiserate about it, drink a glass of wine, then move on to the good stuff and celebrate it! AND, no juicy gossip gets released from “the circle of friendship”</p>
<p>binx and alwaysmom, so sorry to hear of your losses. It is excrutiating to lose a loved one, especially a parent or child. God bless you both.</p>
<p>Again, in our town, confidentiality is emphasized (at least in the schools). It’s interesting to consider how a concern for privacy and also a preference for taking care of ones’ own business without imposing on others clashes with establishing close ties. </p>
<p>The latest example – traditionally, the middle school has posted the team lists outside the school and students have dropped by to see what team they’re on. (This is a large school, with 350-400 students in each grade.) Apparently this year they are not posting but rather sending out letters due to privacy concerns – even though obviously everyone will find out who is on each team in the fall.</p>
<p>I guess one concern was that kids were making rude comments (“oh no, that pukey John Doe is on my team AGAIN”), although I’ve never heard any and parents are generally present as the kids look at the lists.</p>
<p>Who needs friends when you have SAT scores?</p>