new study: mean girls start as young as 4

Parent Cafe
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<p>I can attest to “mean girls” developing by age 6, as my Daisy/Girl Scout troop of 12 numbered 5 mean girls, 2 of whom were among the meanest PEOPLE I have ever met, adult or child. Maybe there was something in the water in 1990, or a glitch in the ozone layer over Central New York - how else to explain the high percentage of mean girls born that year? Whatever it was, I still bear the psychological scars. </p>

<p>The most difficult to deal with was a girl who had enormous social problems - chronic lying, attention seeking, cheating (couldn’t bear to lose), even stealing. When caught, she would have awe-inspiring tantrums, and collapse in a sobbing heap on the floor. Her behavior was always touched off by the queen bees of the group, who loved to dally with her by seeming to include her at the beginning of each meeting, then cutting her down right around snack time. I went home with a migraine every week! </p>

<p>Here’s an appropriate touch - “Mildred Pierce” (1946) is on TCM just now. Ann Blyth as Veda is the ULTIMATE mean girl. Must be an eternal phenomenon.</p>

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<p>aroundthecorner - what a touching admission. Since you only faced this a year ago - how have you come to grips with it? Has it changed how you deal with people now?</p>

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<p>My ultimate mean girl experience was when I was 5. I had a neighbor girl my age. i didn’t really like her, but there wasn’t anyone else around. She would borrow my stuff and deny it, saying i was dumb and the next day it would turn up. </p>

<p>Well, one day, she was visiting and she helped me put all my barbies away. She asked to borrow some barbie stuff and PROMISED to bring it back the next day, if I didn’t share, she would never talk to me again. Well, she borrowed almost everything.</p>

<p>I came home from school the next day, THEY HAD MOVED…that little mean person took all my barbie dolls, clothes, food, shoes, everything. It was no accident she moved…40 years later and I am still a bit peeved…</p>

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<p>citygirlsmom-- awww! that’s vicious! </p>

<p>hayden-- I guess it really struck me because while I am ambitious and outgoing in my own way, I still consider myself somewhat of an introvert. I’m the oddball in the family, so being a sort of mean, cliquey person really didn’t seem like me. I had to go back and think, look at my elem. school yearbooks and was like “Oh… yeaah… (I guess I did treat her badly…)…” </p>

<p>It hasn’t changed me much because while the past is there, I think I grew up to be an OK person despite being a “mean girl.” I feel successful and driven now, and so I’m not dwelling on it. I guess…I grew up, haha? </p>

<p>I do look at little girls in a different light though. I mentor kids a lot, so if I ever do come across a “mean girl,” I think my first judgements might be different then they would have been.</p>

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<p>Aroundthecorner, not many people face their past with such maturity, good for you…</p>

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<p>

According to Sperling’s BestPlaces, the most stressful city in America is Tacoma Washington. I think Tacoma is about a half an hour or so from Seattle, Washington. Maybe the seeds of meanness are greater in Washington State, than in Utah.<br>
<a href=“http://houseandhome.msn.com/Move/TheMostandLeastStressfulCities.aspx[/url]”>http://houseandhome.msn.com/Move/TheMostandLeastStressfulCities.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I knew some little girls who were pretty mean even as toddlers. Some had biting, pinching, sharing problems that made them undesireable playmate even back then. But I am happy to report that all of those kids who had some social issues when they were little seem to be doing quite well now that they are grown. Now all of these kids that I have known for all of these years also had nurturing parents who have been working with their kids to modify any undesirable behaviours. </p>

<p>The group of kids that I have seen who have had the most problems have been teen age boys with dysfunctional behaviours. Too many of those have not fulfilled their intellectual promise because of problems that were not addressed properly or because they did not respond to any efforts to help them. It scares me because that is where I tend to have problems with my kids. My nephew is now 30 years old, and many of the kids who were classmates in highschool are unemployed, college dropouts, have been in trouble with the law, underemployed, have problems with substance abuse, are still very irresponsible. And most of these guys came from supportive families. My son is a minority in having graduated in 4 years when looking at the stats of his graduating class, and the kids we know tended to be in the top half of the class, even top quarter. </p>

<p>Although, girls could be meaner than the boys, I never had much trouble working with a group of girls even with some meanies in the group. It’s always been the boys, as their actions tend to be disruptive. I can occupy a group of girls with no problem, but cannot do the same with every group of boys.</p>

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<p>Just read the article.</p>

<p>This is timely for our house. My 9 year old d has been upset lately with one particular girl in her class who has been displaying this sort of Queen B behavior. It got to the point where just about every other day when I would ask how school went that day she would burst into tears and relate yet another story of this girl’s behavior toward my d which would include some version of “I’m not gonna be your friend” or “so and so is my friend so she can’t play with you”. </p>

<p>After a couple of weeks of this I finally went in and talked to the teacher about it as I felt it was affecting my daughter’s perception of school. She said that lately all the girls had been having a harder time getting along. The teacher had a talk with all the girls in the class about being nice to one another and then she also had the counselor come in and give the class a talk about being nice to each other. I doubt this will change the Queen B’s behavior but I’m hoping it will let my daughter see that the behavior is inappropriate and that others are also being hurt by this girl’s behavior. </p>

<p>It’s just so hard to watch the emotional pain caused by these mean girls. My older d never really had problems like this but she was much less sensitive. If someone was mean she just figured they were grumpy, didn’t take it personally, and looked for others to hang out with. Little d is way more sensitive, wants everyone to like her, and the road ahead will probably be a lot rougher for that reason as she makes her way through school.</p>

<p>I wonder what I can do…</p>

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<p>Don’t think its just your daughter. She just hasn’t learn to deal with meanness yet. But don’t let her lose her sensitivity-its a good thing.</p>

<p>Make sure she gets a chance to hang out with her friends on the weekend or after school. Getting together with good friends whenever possible, will make the mean girl less important.</p>

<p>Read the books on cliques, etc. THere are some good ones for younger girls to read. It will show D she is not at fault and not alone, and does give some skills to cope. Sometimes reading from a book, and not just hearing from mom, really helps. I also read everything I could find, and when I found something good, I shared with Ds. We even went to a speaking by the auther of queen bs and wannabees. My D actually stood up in front of 100plus people and told her story. I wanted to cry. But it made her stronger and she got so much support, I wanted to hug everyone. </p>

<p>We had nicknames for the mean girls. When D wanted to talk about them, she hated using their names, so we came up with three headed monster, It (after that movie about giant ants), and other names we just used among ourselves. It made it funny.</p>

<p>Also, we got together with other moms and D, and we moms casually brought up our own bullying stories. It showed Ds that everyone has had to cope.</p>

<p>Make sure you get D together with all the ncie girls in the class. THere may be someone getting worse treatment than D that needs to be reassured.</p>

<p>I have so been there. What I have seen happpen after the big talking to by teachers, is the mean girl is nicer for a while., then she get soldiers to do her dirty work. Girls who so want to be her friend or fear her will turn mean in more obvious ways. </p>

<p>Just give D hugs. And practice some quick answers to mean girls’ comments. “Why do you care” Oh thats okay, I am busy anyway"<br>
Have a strategey before recess. A plan. One girl in D 1st grade one run up to D and say, mean things, my D said, “WHy do you care”, or “So…” “Well, I don’t care what you think”…inside she was hurting, but outside, she was strong. After about a week of her comeback, mean girl quit cause her mean comments didn’t seem to have any effect.</p>

<p>We practiced at home. I would be mean girl, and D would answer back. Gave her much confidence.</p>

<p>I know this is a bit messy. I will talk to Ds today and see what worked best.</p>

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<p>The “mean girl” thread almost hijacked by the Mormons! Interesting that only the Mormon women need the meds, and not the men.<br>
I saw Katie Couric interview the people who did the study this morning. From what I’ve read about her, she’s a “mean girl” grown up, and you could tell she was thinking, “So what’s wrong with this kind of behavior again?” She’s my exact age and I always feel like emailing her about the frosted lipstick. [No, Katie! Go with the matte!]</p>

<p>aroundthecorner, you’re a good writer! I appreciate you admitting to being a “mean girl.” I figured about 20 percent of women on here were, but who would admit to it? kudos to you…</p>

<p>frazzled, that sounds like one bad girl scout troop. I have 2 boys and four nephews so I hadn’t spoken to a girl for years til one of my boys got a girlfriend.<br>
fendergirl: don’t tell your cousin that men only get worse! I like that she broke up with her boyfriend over the inequality in cooking, lol. </p>

<pre><code>Islandmom, one of my s’s had this problem with a boy in the first through third grades and I still remember the stress it caused. If you have the teacher aware and on your side that can help. I would make sure to ask that they’re not placed in the same class next year. The lady who came to my house to hang wallpaper [I told everyone about it at the time, I was so upset] told me that at their small Christian school, they would ask kids like that to leave for a year, then they could come back. She said that usually took care of things. It’s weird because you assume that the lower school grades are easier socially and I find high school much easier socially for my kids than the early years.
</code></pre>

<p>I also enjoy having my boys driving and not having to interact with other parents, but that is another story for another day and another thread!
jamimom: yes, boys have their own issues, don’t they? I worry about my boys and all their friends. I’ve always thought better and earlier career counseling in the high schools and in college and even later in adulthood would be of much benefit. That labor secretary under Clinton -Reich?- had some good lifetime job training ideas.
edit: just read superstar’s post - very good ideas! Practicing sounding like you don’t care sounds like a good idea.</p>

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<p>Forgot to add: citygirlmom: Unbelievable about the Barbies! [but very funny story] I’d still be a little peeved, too.</p>

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<p>Boy, does this thread bring back some bad memories… When I was in grade school (small Catholic) I ran with a pack that would always have one girl singled out for emotional torture. I was definitely not the “alpha dog”, but I had never been the “mutt” either. I went on a vacation with my parents and when I returned, I was the chosen one to be picked on. It became so vicious that I ended up getting horrible stomach problems. My mom let me stay home and it became chronic. If I even thought about school, I would get sick. At the end of the term, I transferred to the public school in my area, which was hard, but nothing like what I had endured. </p>

<p>I ran into one of those girls a few years ago and she asked what ever happened to me! She had no recollection of why I had left or what had transpired. I guess to them it was no big deal. </p>

<p>As the mom of boys, it has seemed like they get along so much easier. When they are little it is like - if you do what I do at recess, we are buddies, if you don’t, whatever.</p>

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<p>ag 54,</p>

<p>That is exactly my experience!!! I can still feel the pain from when it was “my turn” to be the excluded. </p>

<p>In our generation this was more or less a right of passage around age 11ish. Nowadays it appears to start early, peak in MS, continue in HS, and be evidenced in the downright brutal aspects of some sorority rushes.</p>

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<p>My daughter was ostracized throughout middle school by her “best friend” from elementary school. The girl had a pack of wannabees who followed her lead. I didn’t even know what was happening until the summer following 6th grade when my daughter at last told me how they ignored and avoided her. Sadly, the girl’s aunt taught at the school so she was always recognized for everything she did, including one for her smile. No one was aware of what was happening. Fortunately, a new girl moved into the school (a very small parochial school) during 7th grade. The “click” tried to get this new girl into the group, but she didn’t like the fact that they never really talked to her, just let her hang out with them. She and my daughter connected and have been best friends since. Four years later, in high school, these girls have not changed (although the original click has split into several groups now and there seems to be no interaction among them). They are still very clicky - they still don’t even speak to my daughter or her friend and the teachers still think they are the sweetest kids. Hopefully by college these kids will grow up.</p>

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<p>I guess I was out of the loop in grade school- I had about 3 really good friends- and 5 other girls in my social group.
I mostly spent time with my nextdoor neighbor- and dont remember anyone being ostracized except for one girl who needed braces really bad and whos parents were academics and didn’t realize ( or care) that in that neighborhood it was terribly declasse to wear hand me down clothes ( before retro )
I did spend some time with her- she was very smart and wasn’t really into doing what the rest of us were doing ( which was making up catwoman escapades)
In junior high Ihad some really good friends- but when a new high school was built which started at 9th grade instead of 10th, I was very very upset- and had to start over making friends.
The new group of friends were more about power- I percieve it now as they didn’t feel they had power in the rest of their lives- so they took it where they could find it.
I see girls now being more confident about their own opinions and not cowing to the leader just because she has better hair/house/boyfriend.</p>

<p>The times my girls ahve had problems with a particular child- I talked to the parents. With my youngest who was very shy and had a great deal of trouble in school- she had switched to a public school from a tiny private- and was teased by another girl. I learned that this other family was having a great deal of stress and this was a way that this girl was alleviating some stress. It did help my daughter to understand that it wasn’t anything wrong with her it was this other girls problem. We worked on trying to get to know her better- that worked for a bit- then we worked on ignoring her- she eventually moved ( that was part of the stress- Dad had lost his job and homelife was very tense).
Another girl that she initially had problems with- was a girl who was being raised in a very large family of mostly boys by a single mom who was just barely hanging in there. This girls communication style was really overwhelming for my daughter- she was also puzzled by the inconsistent behavior and didn’ tknow how to react sometimes.
Now this girl is also attending same high school, and I see other indications that her home life isn’t getting any better.
I don’t think kids are born mean- some may be predisposed to reacting more strongly or lashing out instead of holding it in when they are stressed, but I think there is a reason behind “mean” behaviour.</p>

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<p>What really helped my Ds was learning a way to stand up for themselves without being mean back.</p>

<p>When they were little, mean girls would say things like, Your pony tales look stupid. It was such a dumb thing to say, and Ds were hurt, but didn’t know how to react.</p>

<p>Ds and I role played alot, and practiced combacks:</p>

<p>Your socks don’t match - Thank you for noticing
You are sooo short- Really, Oh my gosh, I AM SHORT!!! (said with big smile)
So and so doesn’t like you any more - Gee, thanks for sharing. Its good my life is so important to you.
You can’t play with us today- THat okay, I wanna play tag anyway, or jumprope any way…</p>

<p>Just having something to say back without engaging the mean girl gives the kid getting picked on some ammunition with out making situation worse.</p>

<p>Another trick- a lot of picking on and mean girl behavior happens at lunch and recess. There it is obvious that someone is being austrosize. WIth my D, I got her a hacky sack ball or kootz balls - easy to stick in lunch box or pocket. It was then easy to have something to do and say , hey, you wanna play? With a tangible thing to do, it was easier for the “excluded” girls to get together and have fun. The mean girls would laugh and say, what a stupid game, but by that point the girls were having fun with each other and didn’t focus so much on being 'excluded" by the clique.</p>

<p>One girl in Ds 8th grade would glare at my D all the time, especially in class if D did something well, or even just did something. It bothered D. I told D to look right at MG and give her the biggest smile and a finger wave. D thought I was bonkers. But she tried it. MG immediately looked away. Next time D got the glare, did the pagent wave and smile. MG looked so suprised and floored. After about a week of still glaring and trying to intimidate D, she stopped. D felt silly at first, but it worked so well, every once in a while she would just do it.</p>

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<p>I’m just glad this year is over in about two weeks. Requesting separation from this girl next year is certainly an option but won’t guarantee that the same type of thing won’t happen with someone else.</p>

<p>I like the idea of coming up with strategies for d to have ready for the next time she’s affronted with this behavior.</p>

<p>Little d is actually well adjusted, very social, and has girls in the neighborhood that she can play with afterschool and on weekends. She has very few problems with other girls. She actually gets lots of invitations to come over and play from various girls in and out of school. It’s just the one girl who seems to be trying to organize the girls in that class so that they will all be her followers.</p>

<p>I’m going to go search out that book mentioned above. Thanks for the support. I can see this topic hits close to home for a lot of people and it came at just the right time for me.</p>

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<p>Its sad, but it only takes one mean girl to hurt a class. Its like having a snake in the room. Its only one snake, but you never know when its gonna strike. And when it strikes your friends, its just as hurtful. THat is how my D described one particulary mean girl. Picturing her slithering around the floor looking for victims or other snake friends made Ds laugh. They would hiss to themselves or with close friends whenever mean girl did something. It got them past the moment. </p>

<p>My Ds were like your D, it seems that the MG want to knock out the “competition” by gathering up her soldiers. </p>

<p>The strategies I suggested really work. Sometimes not at first. Your D will be doing something and taking back power from MG, and other girls can see you don’t have to take it. Some girls will follow mean girls. After awhile some will leave-the strong ones, and the weaker ones will stay, being too afraid or lacking self confidence. WHen you can predict what happens, Ds will be amazed at how typical and ordinary this girl really is.</p>

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<p>Update on the mean girl. D came home last Friday and wanted to have the mean girl over to spend the night.</p>

<p>IMO this mean girl is now just trying to hurt her other friend by talking about sleepovers at our house in front of other friend. Sensing manipulative behavior, I said NO. D did not seem upset by my decision.</p>

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<p>Good job mom, I have seen that kind of behavior, where a kid is pressured by a mean kid to make others mad and then is dumped a few days later…</p>