New White Flight --Fleeing smart Asians

Parent Cafe
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<p>Marian, I also hope that this is a good sign at your daughter’s school.</p>

<p>Crazedjunior, Since the issues were never addressed during his high school years, he carries this hurt and experience with him. He has formed opinions from real past experiences. He is only open minded because he does have one, and only one, close friend who is Asian. He is not open minded because of any program that his high school school had in place, in fact, they seem to ignore the situation. He definitely understands that not all Asian students want to seperate and avoid interacting with a white person, but I think that he does believe that most Asian students want to segregate. His beliefs were formed and reinforced daily, because everyday he watched the students segregate in the lunchroom for four years. People learn through experience, and what they learn is not always what we would have liked. I find it sad, and most unfortunate.</p>

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<p>katliamom (post #45), Yes, our boys sound like soulmates! My son, also, has been known to leave the house without his shoes (to say nothing of his homework, lunch, life preserver for sailing, etc., etc.). Do you live near enough to test our theory?</p>

<p>Northeastmom (post #40), My experience is very different from yours. In our neighborhood, the academic enrichment chains are doing a booming business. My younger son, who is 7, was invited to go on a playdate to EScore! When I told the mother that I had no intention of having either of my sons step foot in the place, she listed all the neighborhood families who were taking their kids there. Most on her list were white, with a few Asian and one black family. We have quite a few Japanese families in our school district; they are usually here for about 3 years. The kids go to Japanese school on Saturday, because if they don’t they’ll be behind when they rejoin their schools in Japan. I know Chinese kids (both from Chinese families and adopted by white families) who go to Saturday Chinese school, but it is more cultural than academic. My son has a friend who goes to Lithuanian school every Saturday for about 5 hours, and Lithuanian camp in the summer. His parents are, if anything, insufficiently concerned with their children’s development.</p>

<p>The jockeying for academic position starts very early here. I could tell you stories about parents of 5th graders rejoicing when a smart child left the class, leaving the field open for their children to be valedictorian 7 years later! Most of these parents were white. The two worst offenders I can think of offhand in terms of overscheduling their children with athletic and other lessons are both white. One has her son taking as many as 3 after-school activities on school days (soccer practice; piano lesson; Tae Kwon Do), with no free days. There is a level of insanity here that I could never have imagined before I had kids myself. There is even a (white) woman who acts as gatekeeper for her kid’s piano teacher, refusing to give his number to people whose children might threaten her son’s position as top student of this man. </p>

<p>There is a distribution here along the spectrum from insane focus on kids’ achievements, through the point of perfection (defined by my position on the spectrum, of course!), to benign neglect. I can’t see that Asians are distributed any differently on the spectrum than whites are.</p>

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<p>I cannot believe how many racist comments here…just a thread discussing about Asian Americans and their families pushing education first and “not balanced” lifestyle has overt racial bias overtones.</p>

<p>The above thread can easily be describing Jewish Americans. Just substitute the word Asian with Jews and every situation would be applicable. Would someone instantly come on and call it anti-semitic? I think so.</p>

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<p>Wow, NYMomof2, I have not seen that in our area. There are many parents, who are white, and they hope for sports scholarships. They push their kids to spend a lot of time in various sports. As far as academics, they are not neglectful and it is of utmost importance to do well in school, but they usually do not send their kids to more academic programs outside of school, unless they are lagging behind. Most families do pay for some SAT tutoring, and often it is only a few group sessions. There are some parents that provide private SAT tutoring as well.</p>

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<p>northeastmom, Athletic scholarships are not the motivation for the two worst parents I alluded to before - one is quite well-to-do, and the other is downright wealthy. Around here, it’s competition for the sake of competition - my kid has to be the best (at whatever). </p>

<p>For my older son, the worst of it is that these kids who are focusing on grades are not really interested in learning. It drives him crazy that he hears, “Is this going to be on the test?” constantly. All of this intense academic (and other) pressure has led to an anti-intellectual atmosphere. We’re voting with our (his) feet. He’ll apply to several independent schools this fall.</p>

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<p>NYMomof2, That is too bad for your son. I wish him lots of luck at his new school!</p>

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<p>Thanks, northeastmom - and while you’re wishing, please wish him luck getting in! His test scores are quite high, but his grades are not so high. Always 100% on tests, but always missing/lost/forgotten homework.</p>

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<p>Okay, I wish him luck in getting in too!</p>

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<p>" In our high school that would be hard because most (not all) Asian students sit with other students of the same family ethnicity. "</p>

<p>I’ve read that similar things occur at some colleges.</p>

<p>However, my own S’s experience has been different in that in h.s., he had a very multicultural group of friends, which included several Asians whose parents came from different countries. Some of his friends moms also became my friends.</p>

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<p>Very interesting thread.-</p>

<p>To whoever said that this thread was full of racism, you are…dumb to say the least. This thread is full of observations and generalizations, as well as curiosity. I’d expect nothing less of a thread addressing a current demographic issue. </p>

<p>“Blink182 – do you for any moment imagine that the “new immigration” doesn’t pay its dues when it comes here, legally or illegally?”</p>

<p>Oh yes, all the time. There is no doubt in my mind about the amount of hard work, suffering, and grieving from immigrants. These are key tools in the process of establishing a hispanic community in the US (yes I was talking about hispanics). AND there is nothing wrong with this. They contribute to the intellectual, economic, and cultural aspects of the US that I find appealing. BUT, I only appreciate that which is done legally. Like I stated before, America is full (well IS) of immigrants that bought passage to this amazing country. Yet, there is no excuse in this day and age for entering a country illegally. The financial as well as communal problems with this act are unacceptable. </p>

<p>But back to the post, I have enjoyed learning about your “experiences.” I live in the midwest (and I’ve NEVER heard of kids taking calc in 8th grade…), and I’d say that I had…2 asian kids in my school. Both not very bright, though our top students consisted of like 8 kids out of 350.<br>
I’d have to say, I would rather be the “typical” white student who takes education seriously, yet still finds time to “be a kid.” From my experneces, for the most part, kids that are schooled and pushed nonstop aren’t very social.</p>

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<p>Why is that when I see mostly white students sitting with other white students, nobody here would make any comments. And if Asians congregate together, observations are made.
If coloblindness in all levels of society is your goal, then you wouldn’t have made these observations. i.e. Asians sitting together;instead you would have noticed a group of Americans sitting together. Until you can achieve that mentality, you are still a racist.</p>

<p>I also see many threads in this forum asking about which schools have big Hillel presence and keeping kosher (obviously needing to eat with other Jews)because that’s important for their children…and nobody questioned why they didn’t want to accept some diversity in their experience.</p>

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<p>Why is that when I see mostly white students sitting with other white students, nobody here would make any comments. And if Asians congregate together, observations are made.</p>

<p>If the groups are always selfsegregated, I think there would be comments made.
I also disagree that if you notice someones hair, eye,skin color, or their style of dress, you are racist.Of course you are going to notice.</p>

<p>If I am gay, and hispanic, should I look for schools where I can find a large enough group of gay Latinas, ( or at least active acceptance of)?, or should I totally remove that criteria from my college search, reasoning that I want a * diverse* experience, and so it wont matter to me if there are * any* students who look like me on campus, let alone ones who have other than mainstream sexual orientation.</p>

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<p>I’ve always been a bit put off by complaints that certain ethnic minorities “self segregate” in school, too. I don’t think the black students, or asian students self-segregate any more than many of the white students, to whom it would never occur to actively seek out genuine friendships with others outside their race. They often all “sit together” too, but it’s somehow seen as alright if they don’t have minority friends.</p>

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<p>I posted on the high school board, but was hoping you guys wouldn’t mind if I joined your thread too :wink: I found this article to match some of what I observed in school, but other parts surprised me a lot.</p>

<p>A little background. I attend a school with a very high percentage of international students from Asia. Their parents send them over to the college so that they can attend school while establishing residency, eventually transferring over to the public university. I tend to gravitate towards the math and science classes, where I’m often the only non-Asian in the class. Sometimes it is a little uncomfortable sticking out so much, but I wouldn’t trade my experience for anything. I can not imagine leaving a good school just because you were no longer an ethnic majority! As a result of my experiences, I’ve gotten to learn about their various cultures: about their families, food, beliefs, and outlook. Oftentimes, they’ll make me really think about parts of our American culture that I never even considered. Why do we drive so much? How can we not be nervous about tests? Why do we explain concepts in our own words instead of the professor’s definition word-for-word? These have really made me examine our own culture. I feel as if I’ve really got a better understanding of what the “American culture” is now and also a much more global perspective too. I’ve been introduced to kimchi and pho, learned a few words in Mandarin, and just in general have enjoyed learning about a lifestyle very different from ours. </p>

<p>Competition is pretty fierce for the top grades. Most of my classmates are so driven: they will spend hours each night studying, doing the same problems over and over. For a competitive perfectionist like me, this has been great. Their work ethic has rubbed off a little on me and I’m often compelled to study just as much as them, so that I don’t fall behind. It helps motivate me a little I suppose because I don’t like “coming in second.” </p>

<p>I’ve also noticed there is some pretty extreme pressure on my friends to be perfect. It is absolutely dead-silent before any quiz or test - so much tension in the room. When the assignments or exams are handed back, there is the same tension: extreme disappointment if any grade earned is “less-than perfect.” I used to not understand this. I grew up in a family where “doing your best” was fine. Mistakes were expected and definitely okay as long as you learned from them. However, it seems different for my classmates. There is so much pressure to be perfect. For lots of my friends, their parents will simply stop paying for school in America if they mess up and get an A- or even lower! </p>

<p>As a result of my experiences, I feel pretty lucky to live in the culture I do. I used to envy those who had parents who really pushed them and pressured them about their grades. I was disappointed I didn’t take summer classes every summer, I wasn’t in AP’s freshman year, etc. This year though, I’ve gotten to see a glimpse of what my friends go through and my opinion has changed. I’m thankful that my parents allowed me to just be a kid and even now, there’s no pressure about grades which is a relief. If, in 20 years, I end up in an area where my kids attend a “competitive” school, I don’t think I’ll avoid it. A little competition hasn’t been bad for me so far and I feel the experiences I’ve had as a result, have been well worth the small embarassment of “sticking out in the crowd.”</p>

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<p>cbreeze I am not a racist, but I do disagree with this comment:</p>

<p>“i.e. Asians sitting together;instead you would have noticed a group of Americans sitting together. Until you can achieve that mentality, you are still a racist.”</p>

<p>My point is that when my white, American, son tried to sit at the table a few times to enjoy lunch he was clearly not welcomed. The Asian students switched from speaking English, to speaking another language spoken in their home. My son felt that the point was to make him feel unwelcomed at the lunchroom table. This behavior occurred more than once. I explained myself very clearly. I intentionally omitted listing their families’ country of origin.</p>

<p>Here was my original comment in its entirety: (post #53)-</p>

<p>“Tookie that is interesting. In our high school that would be hard because most (not all) Asian students sit with other students of the same family ethnicity. My S attempted to sit with some Asian students several times. He says that they will let you know that you do not belong at their table by switching from speaking English to speaking the primary language spoken in their home. Lunchroom tables are apparently very segregated. It was this way throughout my son’s high school years and it never changed.”</p>

<p>Post #53 is in response to post #52:</p>

<p>“Last year I asked S who he ate lunch with at school (9th grade), and he said, “The Asians.” Everyone else, he claims, drinks and does drugs.”</p>

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<p>In terms of the lunchroom story, the kids in question are not just “general” Asians, but kids from one specific country sitting together, whether they are Japanese, Korean or Chinese. Did this happen with one particular language group or with different ones at different times? Whatever it is, it’s just rude.</p>

<p>In Massachusetts, I attended K-12 in a suburban school system that placed innercity African-American kids into our schools through the METCO program. Admittedly there weren’t many AA kids who lived in my suburb at the time, but those who did ate lunch with the caucasian kids from the suburb rather than with the METCO kids of the same race.</p>

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<p>motherdear, It is absolutely rude. It is also not corrected by the teachers. In my opinion, they prefer not to deal with things like this. They appear to look the other way. </p>

<p>As I said, I intentionally left out their families’ country of origin. I do understand that I am not identifying the students as Korean, Chinese, Japanese, and so on. Yes, the students that I am referring to have parents that have all immigrated from the same country.</p>

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<p>From what I’m reading it seems as if it happened repeatedly only with kids from only one specific country rather than on different occasions were the kids from different (Asian) countries. Perhaps it’s more of a country-specific vs. a regional thing?</p>

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<p>Motherdear, In this case the students are from families that come from the same country. I will say again that not all students from this same backround participated in segregating themselves from students of other backrounds. I am not identifying the country only because I have a younger child who may end up going to that school in the future.</p>

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<p>"motherdear, It is absolutely rude. It is also not corrected by the teachers. "</p>

<p>Considering how difficult it is to do lunchroom duty and how many other diversity and inclusion issues there are to address, I’m not surprised that the teachers don’t address this. While I agree that it would be a better situation if the students were open to connecting with others, at the same time, there are all sorts of cliques in schools in which students reject others because others are different (however “different” is perceived).</p>

<p>The way to address the situation that was described would be through a schoolwide program like the Mix it Up Day – a planned day in which students are encouraged to eat with new people for lunch. This would also address all of the other ways that students don’t connect with others.</p>

<p>I also think that it would be important to have some compassion for the Asian students who may feel that they need the time to be together over lunch since English isn’t their first language and during the rest of the day, they probably do a lot of adjusting to American culture while not being able to relax into their own culture.</p>