<p>Yes, this tired phrase has been heard over and over again here on CC <a href=“check%20the%20%22Drama,%20Sports,%20Fun,%20Academics!%22%20thread%20for%20example”>i</a>*… Well lo and behold:</p>
<p>Not only did a Div I-AA team (note: Div I-AA is now known as the Championship Subdivision) defeat a Div I-A team (now known as Bowl Subdivision) today, this lowly Div I-AA team defeats the No. 5 team in the country – the legendary Michigan Wolverines AT the Big House in Ann Arbor no less…</p>
<p>What do those folks have to say now? I guess they’re a little busy with that nice helping of humble pie.</p>
<p>Anyone who makes absolute statements like that is just asking to be embarrassed. E.g. a couple of years ago UC Davis, then a Div II school that has since upgraded to Div IAA, defeated Stanford - Div I/Pac-10.</p>
<p>im a huge michigan state fan, so im obviously really happy that michigan lost, but dont rip appalachian state by calling them lowly. they won back to back national championships in division 1aa. im not saying theyre a great team, but theyre definitely not lowly, especially after beating the number 5 team in the country.</p>
<p>“No Div I-A Football Team RANKED IN THE TOP-25 ever lost to a Div I-AA team” is the one I heard a lot before. Are you sure you weren’t confusing the two?</p>
<p>the term “lowly” was used firmly tongue in cheek. i guess you haven’t been following the previous conversations here on CC… i’ve been defending Div I-AA teams for a long time.</p>
<p>you see, the entire point is to highlight the fact that Div I-AA teams just don’t get any respect – not here on CC nor anywhere else outside of Div I-AA for that matter. well I guess that’s about to change.</p>
<p>the fact that App. State won two national championships isn’t the point. the point is that this Div I-AA team not only beat a Div I-A team, it beat not only one of the most storied football programs in the nation but the current no. 5 ranked team in the nation – making it a stone’s throw from being considered the no. 1 team in the entire country.</p>
<p>so my point still stands. this notion that Div I-A is this impossibly gigantic step up from Div I-AA akin to the NFL vs. the Pee Wee league just won’t hold water anymore. </p>
<p>case and point: those people who used the argument that even as bad as Duke football is (possibly one of the worst teams in Div I-A), it’s Div I-A and therefore by that fact alone would CRUSH any Ivy League team because they play in Div I-AA – that notion just went out the window.</p>
<p>its a simple case of logic here. if one of Div I-AA’s best teams can beat one of Div I-A’s best, should it not follow that a weaker Div I-AA team (such as an Ivy) would have a decent chance of beating one of the weaker (if not weakest) Div I-A teams (such as Duke – after all, they won a grand total of ZERO games last year and won a whopping single game the year before that – making it one win in the last two years – btw they are off to a smashing start this year losing 45-14 to UConn)?</p>
<p>Is it out of the realm of possibilities? Like App. State beating the Michigan Wolverines at Michigan?</p>
<p>“Duke would CRUSH any Ivy League team – its Div I-A after all”. Its time to rethink that statement, don’t you think?</p>
<p>Just to put the U Michigan loss into context, Appalachian State may be the two-time defending 1-AA defending champs, but look closer at their results from the last two years. Last year, they lost to NC State which won a total of 3 games and the year before that ASU lost three games yet still won the national title (they do it in a playoff so the losses don’t matter as long as you make the playoffs). Finally, this is only their sixth-ever victory over a Div 1-A team-all of the other victories were over Wake Forest (which only recently got good at football). The truth is that ASU is not that good on a national scale and that, as usual, U Michigan was vastly overrated.</p>
<p>As for Duke yesterday, that was pathetic. While I still think they would beat all of the Ivy League teams, my confidence in this belief is certainly lower. They just stink.</p>
<p>And finally, as I was the one who created that thread about “Drama, Sports, Fun…” I hope that you saw the Cal-Tennessee game. That was an incredible scene and must have been an enormous amount of fun for the Cal fans in attendance (btw, it is the “scene” that I most like at these games rather than the wins and losses). They will be talking about and enjoying that game for years. And that is really the point-such scenes are possible at only a handful of schools that have premier academics. Cal is one of them and mega congrats to the Bears on a great victory and what was surely a great time as well!</p>
<p>^^^
Of course I expected this reaction. The old, “eh, Michigan is overrated”… App. State beat so and so and did this and that… I don’t want to even get into the fact that even if Michigan was “overrated” they were still ranked no. 5 in the country – so let’s stop kidding ourselves. Michigan is still supposed to be one of the best football programs in this country. Why not try giving a little credit where the credit has been long, long overdue? Why not admit that Division I-AA football can actually pretty damn good? That Division I-AA’s best can and did go toe-to-toe with Division I-A? That would be too much of a big step wouldn’t it?</p>
<p>And as another poster pointed out. App. State didn’t get lucky, they WERE clearly the better team. A sure fire dropped pass in the end zone by App. State late in the game would have pretty much ended any late game dramatics.</p>
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<p>Finally, how in the world do you justify a statement like this? Especially after yesterday? Unbelievable.</p>
<p>This kind of statement had little credibility to begin with. And I’m sorry but after yesterday statements like that is absolutely nothing but sheer bravado backed up by nothing but hot air.</p>
<p>The fact that Duke lost badly (again) does not mean that they wouldn’t still beat the Ivy teams. Let’s see who the Ivies play and how they do before reaching any conclusions about the relative ability and let’s also see whether U Conn is actually any good. </p>
<p>But I think it is pretty clear that Duke football, for now, is among the very worst in the country in all of Division I-A. I’m sure that the Columbia fans are rooting for Duke to break their losing streak record, but that is still a long way away (although the competition is much tougher in the ACC than in the Ivy League). Still, I’m sure that the most frequently heard question around Durham now is “when does basketball start?”</p>
<p>Hawkette, I’m not talking about a single game loss (and a whooping at that). I am talking about the fact that Duke lost every single game last year and only won a single game the prior season.</p>
<p>In other words, what gives you the bravado to back up this claim about Duke? What evidence about Duke’s football program can you provide that can justify that they could indeed beat every single Ivy team – other than the flimsly fact that they play in D1?</p>
<p>Duke football should in all liklihood do what Georgetown did with their football program (which is drop down to I-AA for just the football team) – btw Brown beat Georgetown last year.</p>
<p>Also, I’m not talking about the worst Ivy football team. I can speak about the best Ivy programs, since you take this position that Duke can unequivocally beat every single Ivy team… Forget about the fact that several NCAA football records are held by Ivy players.</p>
<p>I just don’t understand what gives you that justification? The fact that Duke is THE doormat football team in D1?</p>
<p>the_prestige,
I think you have a very legitimate argument on Duke football. They don’t look very competitive and have not for several years. You might be right although I’d like to withhold judgment til I see more results. </p>
<p>Frankly, to me, the more disappointing aspect of Duke’s loss yesterday was the attendance-only abou 16-17,000. For an ACC school, that is just plain awful and this undercuts my arguments more than their on-field performance. (by comparison, the BC-Wake Forest game drew over 42,000 and Georgia Tech creamed ND at ND in front of more than 80,000). As you know, I have frequently commented on the relative attractiveness of a school’s athletic “scene” and how that can be a lot of fun and add significantly to the quality of an undergraduate’s experiences. Yesterday, Duke fans (including probably students) just didn’t show up. That’s understandable at a school like Northwestern which does not begin classes for several more weeks, but Duke’s attendance truly reeked yesterday. We all know about their great basketball programs and the energy that that brings to their campus, but football is so much more of an “event” on a college campus and I’d be concerned (and maybe a little po’ed) if I was the head of Duke as such a performance has ripple effects.</p>
<p>As for your suggestion about Duke football dropping down from D1-A, don’t hold your breadth. Not going to happen. They will get better in time-heck, there’s only one way to go-and the rest of their athletic program is pretty terrific. But that football scene right now is so visible and if you are a Duke fan, you can probably handle a losing team, but no one wants to get embarrassed week after week and get national attention for that. </p>
<p>Just so we can keep track and make ongoing comparisons, which schools do you consider the best Ivy teams and which offer the best football “scenes?”</p>
<p>btw, Columbia doesn’t hold the record. Columbia’s losing streak stood at 44 before defeating Princeton to break its streak in '89.</p>
<p>Columbia’s streak (which was the longest CURRENT streak at the time) isn’t the longest losing streak by a long stretch. That honor is held by the University of Prairie View A&M Panthers at a whopping 80 games (this is both the NCAA I-AA’s longest losing streak on record and the longest college football losing streak on record - i.e. combining Div I-A and I-AA).</p>
<p>as for Div I-A, that honor is held by Northwestern at 34 games. Duke can certainly make a run for that record as their current losing streak now stands at 21 straight losses.</p>
<p>Interesting that you mention Duke, because one of my '07 friends (an excellent football player) went to Duke. Not sure if it he went to play football though. </p>
<p>Duke sounds so badass though, who would have thought that they suck at football.</p>
<p>kk,
Any predictions on the Duke game in a few weeks and aren’t the students back by then?</p>
<p>xiggi,
I’ve always wondered which one was more overrated-U Michigan’s football team or their PA score? I have always felt that they were way overrated on PA, but with three losses in their last four games and this latest to “mighty” Appalachian State, the football team is making the argument a lot closer.</p>