This is the narrative that I find troubling. It seems like most posters here are not getting it, aside from MaryGJ and romani.
@sylvan8798 agreed. 20 vets commit suicide PER DAY. Some of the attitudes on this thread are exactly why they don’t seek help.
The message from some here is “Well, I guess you should’ve been tougher.” Very sad.
I don’t get your reasoning. We aren’t saying anybody who needs help after trauma is bad. Nobody has said anything even close to that. All we are saying is this guy is quite a tough and amazing person. Look, I think people who run marathons are amazing; that doesn’t mean I think everyone who doesn’t run marathons is a lazy bum.
moooop, isn’t the very title of the thread suggesting as much?
Yeah, that certainly expresses the outcome we all admire. And in a way that suggests any other alternative is pretty namby pamby making excuses for yourself.
As to tutumom2001 quote:
Any time I have heard words to this effect, they were generally accompanied by a phrase such as “It’s his own damn fault, he never should have gone there (or been doing that, etc.) in the first place.” To me that places it back on the soldiers themselves.
Not only are they weak, they should have known better than to get themselves in that situation. Our society looks down on weakness, particularly in men. Buck up, don’t be a sissy. We also laud our soldiers as being the bravest of the brave. How are they to reconcile our expectations and their own expectations with their ultimate reality? Apparently, many of them can’t.
The " no excuses " line is a military mantra about getting the job done, and not giving in to the many obstacles that will surely get in your way…it doesn’t refer to how one copes in the aftermath of getting the job done.
When I showed up for my first training in the Navy, as soon as I got out of my car, 2 guys were in my face yelling “There are NO excuses!”. It’s the most important thing you have to learn.
“Any time I have heard words to this effect, they were generally accompanied by a phrase such as “It’s his own damn fault, he never should have gone there (or been doing that, etc.) in the first place.” To me that places it back on the soldiers themselves.”
Some of it does need to be put on the soldiers themselves. Not everyone is cut out to be a Marine, and anyone interested in joining any branch of the US military should know their limitations. I do think some people join hoping to get their college education paid for without realizing what they’re getting into. The US military is not for the weak, both in mind and body. You have to remember that these men and women are being trained to fight in battle. At VMI, they are being trained to be officers. An officer needs to have a level head and be able to keep their emotions in check. Every person fighting in any battle in any war is depending on his or her commanding officer to hold it together and lead. If that person doesn’t have the mental toughness to handle the stress, then a career as a military officer is not for them. That doesn’t make them “weak” or a bad person, just not the right person for this particular job.
smh
No wonder it’s this bad. 
An interesting article in the Boston Globe about PTSD. One research study has found that there are, indeed, some predictors.
“Telch’s work is part of a provocative new strand of PTSD research, using modern psychology and computer science to unlock why and when a traumatic experience can derail a life. These studies—not just in military but civilian populations, too, testing cops and other first responders—hold the potential to transform our understanding of PTSD, changing it from an enigmatic and disruptive affliction that crashes over some people but not others, to a condition that can actually be predicted, quantified, and prepared for.”
https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2012/06/02/who-will-get-ptsd/CP8rQguZ5YW3PgUfM3qFoL/story.html
^You’re trying too hard.
I think that all points of view in this thread should be honored. I completely understand where Mary GJ is coming from. and it can be courageous to speak out.
I was also a high achiever after a parent’s suicide, and paid for it over years because, due to various circumstances, I could not grieve properly in the first place. Anger is another stage that can get skipped over in the name of positivity.
That said, there are people- let’s call them efficient mourners- who can truly move forward relatively soon, who continue their lives and achievements in a way that does not constitute running.
I have a broader problem with what I once saw termed “inspiration porn.” Human interest stories that distort in order to present a narrative that inspires, basically making use of a person with challenges.
There is a lot of pressure in our culture to “be positive.” We are supposed to get over grief, loss and illness quickly, or people lose interest and stay away. This pressure to be positive can really be harmful and this story kind of adds to that pressure.
No matter what your opinion, we don’t know this person, and I just hope the discussion can be open to insights from all sides.
@compmom I’m very sorry for your loss.
I agree that people mourn differently.
I also agree with the positivity and inspiration porn. One of my favorite quotes about positivity comes from Stella Young, a disabled disability rights advocate: “No amount of smiling at a flight of stairs has ever made it turn into a ramp.” It sums up my feelings on the whole “keep your chin up” thing.
Wow, I never thought I’d be one of the more optimistic people in a room.
You can always find something to be down about…your own death, the death of every person you know, etc. But to demean those who choose to carry on without joining your pity party is really pathetic.
Well that explains a lot. I really don’t have words.
What? Everybody has to have your sensitivity or else they are a horrible person? People who look for a silver lining are deviants?
This has been a really interesting thread for me, because like several others, I see both sides of the coin.
On the one hand, I agree that the media elevates and degrades selectively. What appears to be working for this young man is very individual to him, and to praise him for it puts pressure both on him and those reading it to emulate and continue that unique set of coping behaviors.
On the other hand, I have been described by a friend who is a licensed psychologist as “freakishly resilient”. I was putting too much pressure on my kids to perform and cope with things that I found easy to deal with, and that they, as more typical (not better or worse, just more typical) people were finding terribly stressful. Same with my husband-there is stuff that gives him high blood pressure that I don’t bat an eyelash at (like work and traffic).
The flip side of that coin for me in particular is that while I can deal with train crashes and abject poverty and checked-out parents competently, I can get my feelings hurt ridiculously easily. My mother in law derides me all the time for being “too sensitive”. I can’t kill chipmunks who are destroying my yard-I have to move them and rehome them. I sob uncontrollably at movies with children or dogs in peril. I can tell when someone is upset just by looking at them and seeing their face and body language, and I hurt for them.
It’s all part and parcel of being human-and also learning to be respectful and supportive of people who grieve and process differently than you do, but also not elevating one way of doing it above another. I’m working hard to get my husband to an early retirement so the stuff that stresses him out so badly isn’t there for him anymore, rather than mock him for being upset by 20 minutes of traffic each day.
Saw this article today and it reminded me of this thread re: how people handle grief. Very sad.
“In my mind, I thought it was a cathartic thing to go back to work, to just bury myself and see if that was the way through it,” said an emotional Snyder in an interview Monday in his office on the Warner Bros. lot, with Deborah sitting by his side. “The demands of this job are pretty intense. It is all-consuming. And in the last two months, I’ve come to the realization … I’ve decided to take a step back from the movie to be with my family, be with my kids, who really need me. They are all having a hard time. I’m having a hard time.”
“Here’s the thing, I never planned to make this public,” he says. “I thought it would just be in the family, a private matter, our private sorrow that we would deal with. When it became obvious that I need to take a break, I knew there would be narratives created on the internet. They’ll do what they do. The truth is … I’m past caring about that kind of thing now.”
The death of Autumn, Zack’s daughter from his first marriage, to Denise Snyder (in addition to Autumn, he and Deborah have been raising seven kids and step-kids), has brought a new perspective and a new focus for him. “I want the movie to be amazing, and I’m a fan, but that all pales pretty quickly in comparison," he says. “I know the fans are going to be worried about the movie, but there are seven other kids that need me. In the end, it’s just a movie. It’s a great movie. But it’s just a movie."
I think one of the things that is being left out of the conversation is that we don’t know whether he grieved … or not. Some people are assuming he did not grieve enough because they feel as though he has moved on with his life too quickly. I’m assuming he did grieve based on this statement in the article:
“Two things helped him reach this point in life, Borinstein said: the strict but supportive environment at VMI and his faith in God.”
I’m interpreting the “supportive environment at VMI” to mean that his fellow cadets helped him grieve … and to move on … and “his faith in God” gave him some type of extra security to deal with the deaths. Others obviously have a different view.
Again, grief is very personal. Some people grieve in a very public way while others turn inward to their faith in God (or some other supernatural power they choose to believe in). Faith is a very powerful thing, something that science hasn’t been able to explain. Neither way is right or wrong, but as long as they are grieving in the way that is best for them, we don’t need to judge them.
People deal with grief differently. H bawled his eyes out and cried himself to sleep when we put our dog down. When my aunt died, although I loved her very much, I didn’t shed a tear. OTOH, I sobbed myself silly when D’s friend died of a congenital disease at age 14 but only in my car in a far off secluded spot in the underground parking lot of my office. I didn’t cry at the funeral,but I saw tons of parents who did and a couple who looked askance at me because I was dry eyed.
Well said.
With that in mind, I somewhat agree with the comments about inspiration porn. How many times have you read in an obituary “She faced her cancer with grace and courage. She never once complained. She only showed concern for others, never once for herself. She was a saint.” That’s all fine and good. But it’s not the only acceptable way to deal with one’s imminent death and physical suffering.
If I ever get untimely, painful, terminal cancer, I will try not to be a total shrew, but you will NOT be able to say I never once complained and only thought of others and gave no thought to my own predicament.
Considering you just called obvious grieving “a pity party,” it seems you are guilty of the exact same thing.
People need to grieve in their own way. There is no one size fits all. When my boyfriend of 6 years died suddenly and tragically when I was a college junior, people felt I was not facing my grief as I seemed to be absolutely fine. I WAS facing it -very deeply- just very privately.