I have to say that I do feel much better about my decision to talk to my DS about this after reading all of your posts. I don’t think I need to say anything further to him, or THAT will cause issues. It’s hard because this was the DS that told me everything, my open one. He just listened to what I said, really didn’t have anything to say back. I can’t read his thoughts. I hope it’s just a high school “honey” as was mentioned, and they both move on when the world opens up.
I think you handled it perfectly, but I would also be very watchful going forward. If your son is more of a follower and lacks confidence, someone like this can really undermine their sense of self and do longer term damage. My sister was in a toxic relationship in HS and over thirty years later I can still see evidence of the undermining and verbal abuse. She has zero confidence. Not that it was the BF fault, but he damaged her at a critical point in her life, just when she should have been figuring out who she was and where she wanted to go. If this were my child, I’d be very watchful and have no tolerance for such treatment.
Great suggestion, sylvan. Verbal abuse is abuse, no ifs or buts about that. I have a friend who is stuck in such relationship; unfortunately, there are kids involved, and she is not about to leave the abuser. She confided that it was years into the relationship when she started to realize that what he did to her was not normal; if she had only listened to the warnings of her friends, she would have never tied her life to this man. But from the inside of this relationship, when it was just beginning, it was hard for her to see what the others could see from the outside. Her friends and relatives were too afraid to interfere and only have her subtle hints. Too late now.
Call us horrible parents, but we interfered once in each kiddo’a relationships when we saw the signs of manipulation and verbal put downs. It all worked out fine.
Oh wow, you have great instincts. Imagine if the genders were reversed: a DD with a verbally inappropriate/nasty BF, would anyone accept THAT as okay? … I think it’s incredibly important to both respect his right to date her, and still verbalize your worries about the treatment. Allow him to see that behavior of hers in a different light. I always judged GFs ( I have 2 sons, 3 older brothers) by whether I made them nervous… I want a girl that is at least a little worried about my impression of her at first!
That being said, you are pretty powerless to do more without uniting them in undying young love. So I would stick with the “gee, I wish she was nicer” and pushback when you hear her saying crappy stuff – “I think it’s great he wants to look nice. What girl doesn’t like that?” etc… They will undoubtedly be history by the time college arrives, and he will meet someone (or not) with his mother’s advice in his head. When they break up, do NOT cheer or say I told you so. (but you can cheer on the inside!)
I have said to my kids, “I don’t think he/she is being a good friend” or “he/she is sucking the life out of you” or “he/she is being too needy.” There are times when I have told my kids that they are not being a good friend too. Sometimes our kids need us to validate their feelings or point out when a relationship is not right, whether it’s with a platonic friend or SO. If we don’t, their friends won’t, so how are they supposed to know when it is not right. At the same time, I don’t think it is good tactic to brow beat them. They need to come to the realization themselves because at some point they will be on their own, and they are going to have to know for themselves when a relationship is not working.
I have to say that you not responding directly to the gf’s sarcastic/rude comments is in itself setting an example for your S. Yes, first you give him a few chances to respond on his own. But after that you show him how normal people respond to rudeness by putting the gf in her place.
Has your S ever seen either of his parents respond to someone rude by telling them to their face, “that was rude and innappropriate and we don’t speak to each other that way in this house?” If not, then your S has no example to follow. Time to give him one.
conmama, I’d also have huge reservations about such a relationship. Kindness is the least I would expect from my children’s SOs. And in your son’s situation, it appears kindness is in short supply on his girlfriend’s side.
What OP actually sees may only be the tip of the iceberg. When an abusive relationship has progressed to the point where the “abuser” says or does these things in front of others there is often a lot more, worse, that goes on “behind closed doors”. anomander is right - if you accept the abuse, it is an example for DS. And just because it’s a girl don’t think it can’t escalate to physical abuse as well.
^^^You absolutely do have to wonder what she says to him in private…easy to imagine that she criticizes or mocks his family and tries to undermine their relationship.
Eek…you guys are reallllly scaring me now. Actually, I do plan on speaking up, nicely and respectfully for DS’s sake, if I hear her out of line or not being nice. I just don’t want to alienate him either.
You’ve probably have put a bug in his ear. He may not break up with her son, but at some point he likely will say something to her. Your words have essentially given him permission to “speak up” and say, “hey, I don’t want you talking to me that way.”
I don’t like the way she back-talked you. Most high girls would know better than to do that to their BF’s mom.
Emotional abusers always try to control what their victims do and place restrictions on the abused’s relationships with others, including family, as well as pursuits of personal interests. I’m not saying that this is precisely what is happening, but whatch out for your son suddenly spending all of his time with the GF and dropping his usual activities.
Your DH overheard PART of a conversation and didn’t like what he heard? The two of them were apparently discussing religion. Privately… From your description, she wasn’t talking to your DH, or intentionally in his hearing. It’s not like YOU mentioned to her that you were going to Mass, and she replied–out of the blue–with that phrase. That would be very rude. If she was in fact opining loudly when other people were in the room or obviously within earshot, the thing to do would, IMHO, to turn to her and say, calmly but seriously, “X, you have a right to your opinion about any religion, including mine, but I would appreciate it if you would express your views in a more civil manner.” Then smile.
The other thing doesn’t sound so bad to me either. It could be fond teasing. I suppose the tone of voice must have had something to do with your feelings about it. I think you handled it well, in making it clear in a subtle way that you noted her behavior and didn’t approve of it. I am not thrilled at her comeback, but again, tone of voice makes a difference.
My feeling is that if the girl says something snarky to you or in your presence, you should deal with it as you would with any other teen who made a bratty remark: let her know it isn’t acceptable in a way that is clear but keeps things light, if at all possible. I think you did a good job of that when the clothing issue arose.
I also think that it is reasonable to have had a conversation with your S about how she treats him. Now that you’ve done it, you should let him decide what he wants to do with the relationship. As others have said, it will probably wither away in a natural way when they leave for college.
Lastly, how do you know that she has body image issues?
ETA: Cross-posted with a bunch of people. I strongly agree: silence=consent, and if she is rude or bratty, you should not let it pass. Ever. But make sure it is between you and her directly, even if your S is there.
OK, I’ve been sitting on my hands, but I kind of agree with Consolation. The first example potentially was the result of eavesdropping at a time she didn’t think anyone else could here. The second example just doesn’t sound so bad either. I could see saying something similar and not meaning anything by it at all.
Regardless, you’ve given your opinion, and now I would bow out. You said your ds used to be the “open one.” Maybe he’s shut down because he knows you don’t approve of her. I would be sad if my ds felt like he could no longer come to me. I always tell my ds my honest opinion, but I pick and choose when I do. And when I disagree with him, I still tell him that I trust him to make the right decision and will back him regardless.
If the DH was eavesdropping and overhead the religion convo, then he should “forget” what he heard.
However, there is something very rude about anyone who makes a statement like that in the home of someone whose religion it is. I would never be in my non-Christian families’/friends’ homes and say, "I don’t give a @#$%^& about (fill in the blank with some belief/practice of the home-family’s faith).
@mom2collegekids, I would put that particular statement down to teenage bravado. WHich is an explanation, not an excuse. 
I agree, but what a teen says when he/she thinks it s just other teens and what he/she says in front of adults are two different things. whether or not they should be is another conversation. 
I don’t think the first comment about the “saints” was all that bad, except for the fact that she felt comfortable using profanity in your home - not being judgmental on her choice of words, but I do think it is a clue that she doesn’t care much what her boyfriend’s parents might think. I have an inkling that my own children use profanity when around their friends, but they are careful to preserve relationships with parents or others who they think “might” take offense. I know my S was called out for using the term “pissed off” in front of a teacher and he said it"slipped out"and agreed it was not the smartest thing to do.
The other comment would probably have annoyed me because I agree with you that it is not particularly supportive of your son. But getting involved in their relationship puts you in the position of the “bubble in a briar patch.” I would gently encourage my son to make sure others do not overstep boundaries and to remind him that it is best to surround yourself with people you genuinely like and support you.
And in the meantime I would not go out of my way to make her comfortable with my family. No invites to accompany us on long week-ends or include her in other family events where others may not be bringing dates. There is a way to get a subtle message across without confronting her.
I’m wondering… is she maybe a sarcastic/vulgar person, the kind with “no filters”? Do you live in a part of the country where that kind of talk is common (cough, NY, cough)? Does she counterbalance the insults with equally loud and obvious affection for your DS?
I don’t mean to excuse her, or for you to deny your gut feelings. No of us were there to hear the undertones, but if she is just loud, rude, and brash, it may not stretch to such a dire and frightening level.
Either way, I think you did the right thing to let your feelings be known that he has the right to be treated well by whoever he chooses to spend time with.
A young guy who lacks confidence will put up with a lot a c ** p in exchange for a little sugar.
If she is treating him this way, she does not respect him. It is normal for a young woman to test the boundaries of relationship dynamics but it is up to him to establish when she crosses a line. Oddly, she will like him more if he shows some spine. He doesn’t need to go all Tucker Max, but he does need to even things out. If he doesn’t, it will end soon anyway.
My advice is support your son without badmouthing the girlfriend. You risk creating resentment and having him withhold information of future relationships.