Not keen on DS's girlfriend.

Thank you all for your varied opinions and suggestions. I appreciate the tone of your comments, even as you tell me you disagree with my thoughts. To clarify a few things. The kitchen is table is literally 5 feet away from the FR couch. He wasn’t eavesdropping on purpose. Even though I agree it was partially hearing a conversation, to say something like that to anyone is just incredibly disrespectful, crude, crass, (fill in your adjective). To say it in a home of another religion with parents sitting 5 ft. Away is appalling to me. We live in The Midwest…that behavior and mouth of hers is not the norm where I am from. Yes, she is sarcastic, and it is not a characteristic that my son takes well. Yes, I’ve seen them being nice to each other.

I do believe you would have had to hear her tone. Let’s say I give her the benefit of the doubt that she thought she was being funny about his clothing. Who wants to be with someone where you are the butt of jokes? These are just two examples. She got argumentative with me once and I wouldn’t back down either. She finally did. I just thought my goodness…I wouldn’t have spoken to an adult like that in my life, let alone the mother of my BF…like 2momcollegekids said. Well, at least I know to let things ride out now.

I totally sympathize with your position on this. My own DS was in a relationship with a truly toxic, manipulative girl and we tried much too hard not to express any negative feelings about her. She did have a pretty bad home life and I think DS thought he could “save” her, but we reached our limit when she pretty much spoiled his birthday dinner at a restaurant. She annoyed DD so much that she changed seats partway through the dinner just to get out of earshot.

Her profanity-laced remark about the saints is IMO, on a par with making an anti-Semitic remark in a Jewish home; utterly ill-bred. It’s good that you have spoken to him and should leave the topic alone for a while. My son was very defensive about any criticism of his gf but about 2 months after the birthday dinner she pushed him too far and he ended the romance. Let’s just say, she didn’t take it well :wink:

My husband took to calling my son’s (now ex) girlfriend “the dementor” out of DS’s hearing, of course. She really could suck all the happiness out of a room.

No, most New Yorker’s kids are fairly sophisticated. They know when and whom to turn their charm on. Most friend’s kids I have met would know to shake my hand (or kiss me) and say all the proper stuff. New York is also very diversified when it comes to religion and different life style choices. Most young people I know wouldn’t openly dis any religion, especially at someone else’s house.

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r. He may not break up with her son


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oops…typo…should be…soon, not son.

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Oh wow, you have great instincts. Imagine if the genders were reversed: a DD with a verbally inappropriate/nasty BF, would anyone accept THAT as okay? …
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This is an excellent question. I think there was a thread awhile back where a parent was concerned that their DD was with a relationship with a guy that didn’t treat her well. I think the group here was strongly in favor of getting her away from him.

That said, I don’t advocate that @conmom put her foot down or anything like that. Instead, just working on son’s self esteem and helping him realize that he deserves to be treated with respect.

Just want to add that Patricia Evans has written MANy books on verbally abusive relationships. I have several of her books in my office, as well as other authors. Sometimes I read a few paragraphs to a patient and ask if it is familiar. Just a hint.

When I speak to my son about his long term S/O, I am careful to echo what he says, raise questions about his behavior, but never condemn her. As of Friday, they decided to divide. By Sunday, they are back together, and he is moving to live nearer to her. It is a slippery slide us parents face.

Our S had a short (2 months) relationship that did not go well more than 1.5 year ago. He felt he was not treated well; to our relief, he pull the plug and discontinued it as soon as he had decided it would not be a good match (mainly it was due to the different expectations about the relationship) to begin with. I think she might feel the same way, otherwise she would not treat him like this.

Not sure how his current relationship is. (It has been more than a year.) I did not hear much about it due to the long distance between us. I guess no news is a good news. Somehow he has met all of her family members but she has not met us yet (except one or two times “saying hi” briefly on the video chat.)

@conmama, if your H was actually five feet away, she was definitely out of line to use that kind of language on that subject. If she had simply said, “I’m not a Christian and saints don’t really mean anything to me,” that would be okay, IMHO. (It would be interesting to know what prompted the remark, though. :slight_smile: )

Why do you think she has body image issues?

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@conmama, if your H was actually five feet away, she was definitely out of line to use that kind of language on that subject. If she had simply said, “I’m not a Christian and saints don’t really mean anything to me,” that would be okay, IMHO. (It would be interesting to know what prompted the remark, though. )
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I agree…as you’ve described, she had to know that your H was easily within earshot.

It just seems unnecessarily antagonistic…not a good trait when around the BF’s parents.

I, too, wonder what prompted that remark. Do you have some pictures up of some favorite saints? I have pics of Mother Teresa and Pope JP II (both saints). It would be odd if anyone saw them and said, “I don’t give a $%^& about saints,” no matter what their faith is (or isn’t).

My parents weren’t all that excited about most of the BFs and GFs we all had over the years. My folks pretty much said nothing and just waited things out until we married. It turned out pretty well for us; my folks have been pleasantly surprised at how well our marriages have all turned out (we have all stayed happily married with original spouses). :wink: We intend to be as neutral (or positive) as appropriate down the road when our kids start having serious relationships with S/Os. So far, we haven’t met any, so will see how things evolve.

I agree that it’s important how we feel when we’re with our S/O. S/Os should LIFT us and our relationship instead of making us feel lesser or “dementored out” and sucking the fun and life out of the relationship and room.

She has body issues as she’s told us, and others who have mentioned it to us. Who knows what prompted her Saints comment, but DS is the least antagonistic person I know…seriously. He also is not sarcastic, and doesn’t like it. I think sometimes because the sarcasm goes over his head and he knows it’s typically meant to make one feel foolish. It surprises me he likes her so much. I do think a part of it might be he likes just having a GF, who knows. I highly her comment was a reaction to an offense remark by him.

I didn’t mean to imply that her comment re saints was prompted by an offensive remark by your son. Just that one could assume that somehow the subject of saints had come up in their conversation. Expressing her opinion in those terms when she could clearly see that your H was a few feet away and well within earshot was rude.

When you say she has “body issues,” are you saying she is overweight? Because from many threads here I know that you are concerned with appearance, and I can’t help but wonder whether your dislike of this girl stems in part from the fact that she doesn’t meet your standards of physical attractiveness. (That doesn’t mean that she isn’t snarky or sarcastic or outspoken or habitually rude or whatever also. It might make you less inclined to tolerate it. :slight_smile: )

When I hear someone has “body issues,” I tend to think the person doesn’t like how he/she looks, not necessary too fat or skinny. I know people who have perfect body, but still complain about their legs are too big, too short, or boobs are too big or small.

Well I would stay out of it. Both of them are still kids. They are learning to deal with lots of issues. I wouldn’t parse every mean of every gesture because that would drive me crazy. But I’m a straight shooter so I’m not surprised if my observation about something will come out one way or another.

I don’t think this is about specifics, the particular things she may have said in front of you or to you. I think it’s about generalities: how they interact overall. And, what that means to your son’s formative years and future sense of a good, balanced, personal relationship (and his relationship with family.)

D2 was in a toxic relationship, where a not very nice sort was trying to take her away from both her studies and family closeness. I did say something to D2, plenty of somethings, but not critical. I think I centered it on my own relationship with my girl,her closeness to her sister, and her own goals. But I also made statements that clearly left the door open for talks. Along the lines of, if you need to talk, even if you don’t want my opinions, I’ll listen.

I hate to bring this up, but a poster on CC once mentioned this to me, in a PM and it reminded me of relationships I’d observed way back in high school, eons ago. I don;t mean to be controversial. But, some boys will put up with crap because they are getting the sugar. I.e., sex. So, you want to be sure you or DH (or both) have had sufficient talks about that.

Good luck.

@Consolation Yes, she does have a little weight on her and it doesn’t bother me at all. It’s nothing that seems to be hurting her health. I think that is a fair question, as I am concerned with my own looks…if subconsciously because of her weight, I’m more picky about her. But no. FWIW, she’s a pretty girl and takes care of her appearance. I told DH I just want someone that is good to him and loves him. “Good” to me means making him feel good about himself. He is loyal to a fault, and I see how he treats his GF’s. Both sets of parents from his 2 GF’s LOVE him and their siblings do to. She has mentioned her body issues even to DH. SHE said she has body issues, not me.

@lookingforward I had thought of the sugar, too. I will make sure that DH has more of the talk with him again. I suppose I could, but I think being a man, it will resonate more with DS and I’m sure DH will tell him more than I ever could.

Hmmmmm . . . . Reading this thread was very educational for me.

Maybe it’s because I’m not Christian, and despite some interest in theology I have never much been attracted to controversies about sainthood, whether between Catholics and Protestants or between Shiites and Sunnis, but personally I saw nothing wrong with the first comment, in a conversation between teenagers. It clearly wasn’t intended to be offensive or provocative. It sounded like they were doing homework, and she was frustrated and bored with it. Do they go to a Catholic school? Do they live in New Orleans, and was it football season?

Use of mild profanity like that is pretty common, although obviously subject to local standards. I hear that particular idiom in the office frequently. I would feel differently if, say, she had inserted the present participle form of some well-known object-verb compounds between “about” and “saints.”

I also wouldn’t have read anything near as much as the OP did into the second comment. Acknowledging a friend’s known personality quirk is hardly a personal attack.

If this is the OP’s evidence of a verbally abusive relationship, my read is that she has no such evidence whatsoever, and is filtering what she hears through some other screen of hostility to the girlfriend. I would guess that’s not news to her son, and that he is not likely to respond positively to anything he perceives as reflecting that kind of judgment.

If you really, truly think your child is in an abusive relationship, then of course you ought to try to do something about it, whether your child is in high school or a senior community. But don’t expect thanks, and expect to pay a high, high price, even if you are right, and especially if you are wrong. Test yourself pretty rigorously before you decide if you are right – much more rigorously than the OP has.

Ditto everything JHS wrote.

The problem is as others have pointed out, sometimes people have the kind of relationship where if you take it out of context, it sounds abusive. If you have ever been around certain groups of male friends, you will see that kind of thing, where putting down who they have dated, their mother, you name it is all fair game, and it means absolutely nothing.

In this context it is hard to tell. I would be concerned as the parent, because sometimes what others think is being said in jest isn’t, and sometimes you can’t rely on the opinion of the other person. I am sensitive to stuff like that, because I grew up in a family where sarcastic comments and put downs were supposed to be ‘funny’, but they in fact were cutting and hurt, well into adulthood, it wasn’t until I got into therapy then had my own child that I realized how cruel it was.

It could be nothing, but some things stood out for me with the OP’s post. The fact that the GF has body issues (I am assuming here that she has expressed issues with her body, rather than someone assuming she does because she is somewhat heavy) would be telling to me, because people with self issues will often lash out at others, to ‘bring them down’ to their level, or as in the original post, for example, belittle the other person for something they aren’t as good at, self conscious of, like for example intelligence. When she made fun of him for changing his shirt, that to me could be her being jealous if the S is (in her eyes) more ‘better looking’ in terms of his body, and trying to make that into something to be laughed at.

To be honest, I can be very sarastic with friends, but someone I was in a relationship with I would never tolerate that kind of thing and I certainly wouldn’t use it. There is a difference between playful teasing or inner joke sarcasm (for example, if my wife talked about being an animal trainer, and I made the sarcastic remark “yeah, you would be another horse whisperer”), she would laugh, because she knows she is a smoosh pot with animals, our pets are spoiled rotten:) and cutting remarks, and the case I heard was cutting.

I think as a parent I wouldn’t bad mouth the girl, but I would talk to him about defending himself and about how in a relationship it is not okay to hurt the other person deliberately or treat them with disrespect, and that sometimes it can be hard to tell. The S probably really likes the girl, probably feels like he was so lucky to have such a girl like him, but there is the concept of boundaries and being treated the way you want, and knowing the difference. We have been going through this with our S (who is in college, not hs), with a relationship where the girl’s behavior was inappropriate (in his case, lack of self confidence, constantly texting him, wanting to know where he was, getting mad if he did things when apart from her that she would have wanted to do but couldn’t), and we talked to him about the behavior and how it wasn’t good. We were careful not to make it about the girl being bad, or not liking her, but rather pointing out how that behavior was hurting him and their relationship. If you say “that girl is no good for you”, they’ll get their back up, if you rather say “I am concerned about her behavior” and talk about it, it isn’t a direct attack.

regardless of my impression of my kids relationship, from comments that I accidentally overheard, or even to my face, my opinion about them would be based more on if they seemed happy or not.
If both were in high school, I would give a lot of leeway to awkward comments.
If they didn’t seem happy, I would probably wonder what they were getting out of the relationship to make it worth it, and let them know I would be supportive of finding another way to get that.
( unless sex- don’t make me talk about sex- , but I would tell them that having physical closeness, can make it difficult to realistically see the lack of emotional support/closeness, and in my experience, boys are more romantic and girls more pragmatic, as well as being slightly more socially skilled compared to age. Generally. )

Musicprnt…yes, it was the GF who makes the comments about her body issues. I had a friend once who was obese and she told me that being heavy made her Feel mean and las out…so I agree with what you said.

They do seem to enjoy each other, but I can tell he’s shocked and the shirt comment he had a funny look on his face. its high school I know, and this is where you learn about yourself and relationships. But, if he’s noticed this, I’ve verbalized that is been noticed, too. Someone pointed out that by bringing it out in the open might give him the courage to stand up for himself…or least understand this isn’t healthy. I’ve kissed my share of toads, and I do think that is a good thing. It makes me realize how fortunate I am to have a DH that I do. Would I have appreciated him or realize the terrific qualities he has if I hadn’t dated those others…maybe…but more likely not. I guess toads have their purpose.