<p>I can assure you I am not clueless. I had my first child at 23 and remember my college years quite clearly and fondly. I drank my share and took too many risks and I’m probably very lucky to be alive because I got into cars with a drunk driver more than once. If I were some tea totaller I would agree with you, but I’m not and just because we had rules does not mean that we had a 10:00 curfew! My girls are very open and talk to me about their lives and their choices about sex, drinking etc. regularly. I’m particularly fond of “car ride chats” and so are they.</p>
<p>From midmo: “Yet, many colleges do not hesitate to enforce their own, very specific vision of the ideal student body at the point of admission.”</p>
<p>I did not speak sufficiently clearly, for which I apologize. I meant that it’s not appropriate for a college to enforce a FAMILY dynamic on the families of attending students.</p>
<p>From sarahsmom42: “Moderation is a good thing.”</p>
<p>This is something on which we can agree. :)</p>
<p>We needed to do this. John Wiley has done the right thing.</p>
<p>Parental notification of alcohol-related violations is not new. MANY colleges have been doing this for nearly a decade, following passage of a congressional law in 1998 which allows but does not require colleges to do so:</p>
<p><a href=“National Drug Abuse Hotline and Treatment Locator Service”>National Drug Abuse Hotline and Treatment Locator Service;
<p>From a 2001 article on parental notification:</p>
<p>
<a href=“National Drug Abuse Hotline and Treatment Locator Service”>National Drug Abuse Hotline and Treatment Locator Service;
<p>You know, we really do need to develop a better understanding of what we consider “helicoptering.” That term seems to be used quite loosely and often unfairly. Just because a person turns 18 does not mean that they no longer need parental involvement in their lives. And, in fact, as pertains to the use of alcohol/drugs, this is a very important period of time when parents should stay involved in their child’s lives–particularly during the first 6 weeks or so of college in freshmen year which is when they will be most likely start to develop habits of binge drinking that may follow them throughout their college years (or until they drop out - or worse) and possibly into later years as well. </p>
<p>As it stands right now, our society often seems to be doing a great disservice to our young adults who are “expected” to not just BECOME but BE responsible adults at age 18, yet once they turn 18 nobody seems to want to teach them how to do this. There are no rites of passage to guide them; they are pretty much left on their own and therefore are creating their own “rites” at a time when they may not yet be be fully capable of making responsible choices and are most likely to engage in risk-taking behavior. Parental notification is not enforcement of a “family” dynamic (those dynamics disappeared once the student turned 18, remember?) but it seems to at least be one realistic and preventive solution to a problem that has no easy solutions; perhaps not ideal but better this type of notification than “at the moment of tragedy.”</p>
<p>Scansmom said:
"There are no rites of passage to guide them; they are pretty much left on their own "</p>
<p>As I already said in an earlier post:
Of course they will make mistakes; making them within the somewhat buffered environment of a college campus is the ideal place. </p>
<p>Going away to college is a rite of passage. It is OUR job to prepare them BEFORE they go. </p>
<p>Why do some kids run into trouble in the first 6 weeks of college while others handle it just fine? Why do some young adults balance the demands on their time, and the choices put in front of them with ease while others fail miserably? As parents it is important for us to think about this BEFORE we send our young adults away to school. How well prepared are they for what they will encounter there? Is it realistic to deny that they will be exposed to late nights, casual sex and drinking? IMO young adults in this day and age need to know their limits and our expectations BEFORE they leave home.</p>
<p>Many kids will do what they want to do no matter what the parents tried to inculcate. They just need to know some choices have negative consequences.</p>
<p>Who gets to be the decider on which choices get the negative consequences? (AKA calling mommy and daddy)</p>
<p>If it were to come up in conversation, my son would readily tell me that he’d been drunk. Without going into detail about exactly what my reaction would be and where it goes from there…the point is, we have the kind of relationship where he would come to me or be willing to talk about it.</p>
<p>My fear is the behavior (covering up) that would result from kids who know their parents will not understand, or will freak out, disown them, whatever. How far will they go to cover up their problem? Usually this results in worse outcomes. </p>
<p>Going back to my previous post, where I “covered up” for a friend of my sons when he had been drinking (I guess you could call not telling the parents covering up)- notifying parents when kids get caught drinking (unless it’s a serious health issue) opens up a whole new can of worms…that of deceit, secrecy, and potentially life threatening bad decisions.</p>
<p>The school decides. You don’t like the rules, there are 3000 others with a wide range of rules–or a lack of them. I think most people respect having some standards.</p>
<p>DP:</p>
<p>In this particular case, it’s not a matter of the student covering up. The college notifies the parents if the student has had to be taken to detox, or if the student is found by the police to be behaving erratically and possibly dangerously. In the case described in the article, the young woman was walking erratically across a bridge with an alcohol level three times above the limit. The dean chose to notify the parents.</p>
<p>I do agree that there is a danger that students will not seek help for intoxicated friends if there is a danger that it will lead to penalties. It does not appear from the article that parental notification lead to penalties (unless a chewing out by mom and dad counts as one) although I would assume repeated instances of intoxication would. What the article suggests is trying to get young people to drink responsibly (i.e., not to the point of drunkenness needing intervention) is a job for both the colleges AND the parents. Parental responsibility does not end at 18; nor is it limited to footing the college bill. And it’s all right to say that parents need to teach their kids before they go off to college. Most do. But the fact remains that many students get drunk in college. The colleges can’t just say, “Their parents did not teach them proper behavior” or “they’re 18, they’re adults.”</p>
<p>Marite said:
“Parental responsibility does not end at 18; nor is it limited to footing the college bill. And it’s all right to say that parents need to teach their kids before they go off to college. Most do. But the fact remains that many students get drunk in college.” …“Their parents did not teach them proper behavior” or “they’re 18, they’re adults.”</p>
<p>Just to clarify I was not (in my post) speaking about “proper behavior.” Every individual is going to have their own take on what “proper behavior” is. What is proper to a left wing activist will hardly seem so to a right wing fundamentalist. A fiscal conservative/social liberal and a social conservative/fiscal liberal will also define proper behavior differently. I was speaking about teaching kids about their personal limits which is an entirely different thing. I guess what I’m having trouble with (perhaps I’m reading too much between the lines of your post) is the idea that parents ought to teach their kids not to drink in college at all. I advocate students learning what their limits are, NOT no drinking. (it is unrealistic)</p>
<p>UVA has a policy that
- If 911 is called as a result of alcohol, the police nor the university find out, thus, no parents.<br>
- Doctors at the UVA medical center cannot, and will not, contact the police/university, unless the situation is extreme (as in, the person would die without serious medical attention)
- Parents cannot find out judicial actions unless allowed by the student.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think college kids will want medical help and will ask for it more, if they do not have the fear of being prosecuted by either the school, the police, or their parents. I would call 911 on a friend in need of it in an instant, but if someone is alone, they may not make the initiative if they are scared of the penalties. Drinking will occur on campuses as long as alcohol is being produced. Why should colleges try to fight it, when they could support measures to help people?</p>
<p>UVA, in fact, does a great job monitoring and making students aware of drinking policies/consequences/events. Their campaign seems to not be guided towards “Don’t Drink!” but more “If you’re going to drink, please be smart about it”. There’s many events across the semesters that promote not necessarily no drinking, but how to stay safe while drinking, how to help friends, etc. They give out free BAC cards for people to find their BAC (although most people use it to say “wow, look how drunk i was last night!” the next morning after nearly destroying their livers). There’s the Stall Seat Journal, a poster placed in each first-year dorm bathroom stall that has basic health facts about drinking/sex/relationships/mental issues, how to avoid them, how to help someone if they’re caught in a bad situation dealing with one or some of the above, as well as places/people they can contact and services they can use. There’s also statistics everywhere about “<strong>% of Hoos don’t drink” or “</strong><em>% eat before drinking” or “</em>__% help a friend in need” and other good measures to not only promote not drinking, but promote the well-being of someone if they do decide to drink. Some people would argue that UVA “promotes” drinking, but I don’t think they are. Instead, they’re trying to help individuals make good decisions about something that can go very bad.</p>
<p>"Yet, many colleges do not hesitate to enforce their own, very specific vision of the ideal student body at the point of admission.</p>
<p>Is it only the admissions office of MIT that cares about the “fit” of the student for the mission of the school? Once you are in, anything goes?"</p>
<p>Well, they could simply ask on the application, “Have you ever committed an illegal act, such as using illicit drugs or used alcohol? If so, please explain.”</p>
<p>It would either force future applicants to 1) Lie (they might do that already); 2) Think about what they are doing and resolve not to do it again; or 3) Simply know that the question is coming when they apply, and they might consider that in future behavior. </p>
<p>(Colleges don’t have to use the information gained; they only have to ask the question.)</p>
<p>“There’s also statistics everywhere about “<strong>% of Hoos don’t drink” or “</strong><em>% eat before drinking” or “</em>__% help a friend in need” and other good measures to not only promote not drinking, but promote the well-being of someone if they do decide to drink. Some people would argue that UVA “promotes” drinking, but I don’t think they are. Instead, they’re trying to help individuals make good decisions about something that can go very bad.”</p>
<p>This is called “social norms marketing” and has proven to be effective, provided the school is at or below average for binge/dangerous drinking to begin with, and 2) Is linked to penalties or local police action. There is great debate in the field as to whether it is at all effective on campuses where binge drinking rates are high to begin with (the consensus seems to be, at best, “unproven”.)</p>
<p>So what are we really worried about here? That our kids may have had an alcoholic drink under the age of 21? </p>
<p>Other than the obvious issues- health, danger, using substances as a crutch, using to the point of destroying one’s life and the lives of others, etc…what really keeps us up at night?</p>
<p>Aside from the “hopefully he’s doing the best he can,” what I really want is two sons who become good people, good husbands, considerate, loving, giving, good fathers, angels on earth-types. I’m not into trying to fritter out those that have imbibed. I’m not on a mission to weed out those who have <em>gasp</em> consumed alcohol before the age of 21. Geez, how many of us didn’t? I’m not on a crusade to rid the colleges of drinkers. </p>
<p>Do college students drink- OMG- a year or three ahead of the legal drinking age? Maybe education and not punishment is the way to go. If I were expelled or not allowed to go to college because I drank alcohol before the drinking age, where would I be now? There for the Grace of God go I, is what I say.</p>
<p>Doing away with the drinking age is not the answer. It was 18 when I was in school and Madison was like a freakin Animal House movie. I had two friends there and went to some WILD parties. For the last couple of years UW Lacrosse has had some really horrible alcohol related deaths.
Why should schools have to deal with this crap? “If they had expelled me for drinking, where would I be today?” Who knows, maybe you would have been better for spending a year at a community college and going back a more mature individual. How do you know that it would not have BENEFITTED YOU? Why is it that people think that getting kicked out of school would be the worst thing in the world? Maybe it’s because parents are so afraid that THEY WOULD THEN HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE KID AT HOME. If they are not mature enough to make intelligent choices about something as simple as “should I or shouldn’t I drink until I’m puking”, maybe they don’t belong at college. In my opinion, they don’t and colleges should be spending their time and money on the kids who are mature enough to be there.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Excuse me, but not all of us college kids drink until we’re puking. Many, many, many of us drink in moderation 2-3 times a week and do fine and have very respectable GPAs and are active within our school. There are the very few who do drink until puking. Why should the majority who drink as a social outlet and for enjoyment be penalized for the kids who overstep their bounds?</p>
<p>I do agree with those who think the drinking age should be lowered to 18. The drinking age was raised because of DUI’s, and this hasn’t been a particularly affective strategy. I think the issue should be driving under the inflluence, running a severe health risk, or creating a public nuisance. The first is the most serious for society, and so legal sanctions are in order here. The second two could be dealt with by not allowing those with alcohol infractions to reside in dorms. There could be a pre-arrangement with the housing contract. Then the student would have to explain why housing had been revoked. I don’t think someone should be expelled from classes for alcohol infractions.</p>
<p>Shoebox,
I’m sorry to say it, but “that’s life”. It’s a common theme in the real world. Underage drinking is AGAINST THE LAW OF OUR COUNTRY. Why are you so special that you don’t have to follow the law. If I get pulled over for speeding I have to pay the fine and my insurance goes up. It’s pretty simple, really. Teachers can’t hug their students anymore because some perverts sexually abused their students. Is that fair? No. I grew up spending summers on a lake, I could drive my dad’s boat all over at age 13. It was awesome, then stupid kids got drunk, crashed their parents boats and drown, so now you have to be 18 to drive a boat in my home state. Do I really have to go on? 21 is the law for a good reason. The teenage brain is not fully developed and most are not equiped to make stellar decisions under peer pressure. Alcohol not only impairs already immature judgement, it hurts the underdeveloped brain. People don’t make laws because they love to make teens unhappy. They are trying to keep them safe and hope that they’ll live long enough to become law makers themselves.</p>
<p>Sarahsmom- the male brain is not fully developed at 21! Do you think the drinking age should be 25? Just about everyone on my kid’s floor in his freshman dorm had a fake ID. They were all comparing them on move-in day. Do you really think the drinking age of 21 slows them down much? (Ivy League school, by the way)</p>
<p>And how many of us out there speed? Right, a ton. A ton of kids drink. And I think it’s HIGHLY unfair to say all of make bad decisions. What an ignorant, short-sighted answer.</p>