NYTimes on Penn and the hook-up scene

Parent Cafe
361

<p>riprorin, are you trying to avoid the logic?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The studies summarized by Frankel do not have any political leaning. They tell the story. So, if it is confusing to you to deal with the red/blue state thing, skip that part of the argument. Just respond to the logic.</p></li>
<li><p>The red/blue state is a proxy for parental interest in pushing for abstinence. STDs is a dependent variable. (By the way, here’s what I wrote: "The reason to use the red state/blue state distinction is because that is a proxy for interest in abstinence. " Note that I didn’t mention STDs).</p></li>
</ol>

362

<p>Niquii, you can’t possibly know what you’re “interested in” until you ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE it. Seriously. It’s not the same in theory as it is in practice. There are plenty of things I thought I’d like and hate until I tried them and was surprised to not like it or to love it.</p>

363

<p>@romani Communication is key. You don’t like something. Tell them. You want more of something tell them. Going to a sex therapist is not a “replacement” of having sex. </p>

<p>And you can know what you’re interested in. Haven’t you seen a rollercoaster and thought, “I want to try that out.”? Or because you’ve never been on a rollercoaster, you can’t know that you’re interested in it.</p>

364

<p>I agree with this statement.</p>

<p>“Sexual activity during teenage years poses serious health risks for youths and has long-term implications. Early sexual activity is associated with an increased risk of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), reduced psychological and emotional well-being, lower academic achievement, teen pregnancy, and out-of-wedlock childbearing. Many of these risks are avoidable if teens choose to abstain from sexual activity. Abstinence is the surest way to avoid the risk of STDs and unwed childbearing.”</p>

<p>[Evidence</a> on the Effectiveness of Abstinence Education: An Update](<a href=“http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/02/evidence-on-the-effectiveness-of-abstinence-education-an-update]Evidence”>http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/02/evidence-on-the-effectiveness-of-abstinence-education-an-update)</p>

<p>Sorry, I can’t understand the psychology of the parents here who appear to be so eager for their teens to have sex. I know that some parents try to live vicariously through their kids, but come on now.</p>

365

<p>Clearly abstinence is “the surest way to avoid the risk of STD’s and unwed childbearing.” </p>

<p>But it’s not a reality for most of us. Especially since the majority of young people delay marriage for college and career, sometimes into their early 30s and beyond. Sexual activity is a healthy part of being alive and suppressing it often has unhealthy outcomes.</p>

<p>Niquii: A sexual disconnect can be the end of relationship especially if it grows into a sexual repulsion. Some folks are just not sexually compatible with one another. And the only way to truly discover this, is to have sex.</p>

366

<p>“And you can know what you’re interested in. Haven’t you seen a rollercoaster and thought, “I want to try that out.”? Or because you’ve never been on a rollercoaster, you can’t know that you’re interested in it.”</p>

<p>So then ride the darn roller coaster already, instead of wasting time talking about it.</p>

367

<p>

Yes, it can be the end of a relationship, but like you said, “…if it grows…” There are some things you can nip in the bud. Some things that require greater work. Others no amount of work can fix it. Some people aren’t sexually compatible. It happens. But I dont agree with discouraging people from waiting on the notion that you can’t “test drive” your future spouse. I know this is not what you are saying, but this what this conversation stemmed from.</p>

<p>

Sorry, I respect myself too much to do that. Waiting for a special seat just for me.</p>

368

<p>If kids aren’t educated properly, of course abstinence isn’t a reality. Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy?</p>

369

<p>My d’s hs principal refused to add any sex ed other than abstinence ONLY to the curriculum. As I mentioned up thread, his daughter made him a grandpa before she even graduated from said high school. Clearly simply an anecdotal example but look at Bristol Palin as another example of abstinence ONLY education.</p>

<p>If we want our kids to be healthy we educate them, and let them make healthy educated choices.</p>

370

<p>Riprorin, I agree, education about STD’s, birth control & protection is vital for basic sexual health. We all want that for our kids.</p>

<p>We disagree regarding sexual activity for only those who are married to one another. As I said above, it’s unreasonable to expect that those in their 20s and 30s will forego healthy sexual interaction simply because they’re busy pursuing education or a career. </p>

<p>Niquii – I respect your decision, after all it’s your body and your life, but I don’t equate self respect with “saving one’s self” for one special person. YMMV.</p>

371

<p>17 out of 22 studies have showed a significant positive benefit from abstinence education.</p>

372

<p>“And you can know what you’re interested in. Haven’t you seen a rollercoaster and thought, “I want to try that out.””</p>

<p>The difference is that you don’t MARRY the roller coaster before getting on it and learning that it’s not for you. That’s not even close to a realistic comparison.</p>

<p>Of course, interests in anything can be talked about and tried and even change over time. But some people are what they call hard-wired for say, a low sex drive. Others are hard-wired for a high drive. Some have wiring that’s somewhat outside the norm (think 50 Shades). You can talk about these things until you’re out of breath, but unless and until you’ve spent time with a sexual partner and EXPERIENCED what it means to be hard-wired one way when the other is hard-wired in another, you just CANNOT know how things are going to turn out.</p>

<p>Some people suck up the differences and decide to live with the incompatibility for the duration of their marriage. Others try to and get so frustrated that they eventually leave, since sex is such an important part of marriage. Love is not, in the end, “all you need”. Others never know that there are people out there who might have been more compatible and thus never know what they’re missing, and to some of us, that’s a little sad. To these people, sex would be “meh” or even ok, just not great. They’d think that’s all there is. But that isn’t true.</p>

<p>I speak from personal experience. I had no real sexual experience when I first married. Sex was ok, nothing great. I could have gone one forever never knowing that it could, in fact, be the seeing stars kind-all the time, every time, even as I hit menopause and beyond. Although it was painful at the time, my ex chose to leave for other reasons and I was single. I used that singlehood to expand my sexual experiences (which included talking to experts and finding reliable ways to meet like-minded people. I learned what makes me tick and what I needed in a sex partner. No amount of talking alone would have worked. I met my H and 15 years later, even as we age, we still see stars. That couldn’t have happened for ME, if my ex had never left and I’d never had the chance to explore.</p>

<p>As for being eager for our kids to have sex, AGAIN, riprorin, no one is saying that. No one. Just because YOU equate knowledge about one’s sexual self prior to marriage as wrong doesn’t mean others do. I never once was EAGER for my kids to have sex. I WAS however, eager for them to have the facts about sex and birth control and answered questions they had about non-mainstream hard-wiring that they might have heard about honestly and not with disgust or judgement. I didn’t want them “settling” for life because they didn’t understand the options.</p>

373

<p>Okay, RIP, the issue with what you are posting is that you are posting about teenagers and high school students, and we’re discussing college students, who live outside the home.</p>

<p>Look, you can encourage abstinence all you want. But, that doesn’t mean those of us who are aware that a healthy sexuality in your early twenties actually tends to include… sex are encouraging promiscuity. It’s a false argument.</p>

<p>An intimate relationship is intimate. No amount of outside counselors are going to address the fact of an absence of chemistry and attraction. </p>

<p>As my grandfather used to say, “Money and sex. The only time they matter is when there’s a problem. But, when there’s a problem, nothing matters more.”</p>

<p>Again, though, you are talking about high school students, RIP. We are talking about college and beyond. And the statistics show that things have not changed all that much. So what IS the motivation for all these articles?</p>

<p>I say it’s the fact that girls no longer want to get married. I think people, and by people, I mean men, find this new way of thinking threatening, and I think it is the older men who are more alarmed by all of this loss of power. Because women not wanting to marry is a huge loss of power for guys, not for the girls.</p>

374

<p>From riprorin’s advocacy group article:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In other words, these results are NOT from the most rigorous and accurate methods.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>So, I think when you compare abstinence advocacy to safe sex, if engaging in sexual activity, advocacy, abstinence only works for those who stay that course, which is not anywhere near the normal outcome.</p>

375

<p>

</p>

<p>If the alternative is to tell them “no sex until marriage” and not allow for nor teach any other possibility, why do so many teens whose parents and schools taught that engaging in sex anyway and also becoming parents and getting STDs?</p>

<p>As for teenagers/college students…about half of college students are teenagers, though legal adults.</p>

376

<p>My son is a 16 yr old college sophomore. A lot of college students are teens.</p>

<p>So at what age do you think kids are ready for sexual activity?</p>

377

<p>

The same could be said about the car comparison, but the focus is not on “trying it out”. The focus was on interests. </p>

<p>

I never claimed you’d know the outcome, but ok, sseamom. Ok.</p>

<p>

Girls don’t want to marry anymore?</p>

378

<p>Well, not really RIP. If you send a 16 year old off to college, you get what you get.</p>

<p>The average age of a college student in the united states is 24.</p>

<p>ETA: rip, I think the average age of sexual activity is around 16. My daughters still have opposite sex visitors in the guest room. Now that oldest is engaged, we’ve put them in the same room at the beach house for the visit this month. She’s 22. </p>

<p>Don’t mistake my realism for encouragement for early sexual intimacy.</p>

379

<p>Obviously a high percentage of college students are teens.</p>

<p>So are we agreeing now that teens shouldn’t be having sex?</p>

380

<p>Where’s the data that shows that people that have sex before marriage have lower divorce rates and are more happily married?</p>