Obama is doing a great job w/his speech

subsidycorp · March 20, 2008, 3:37am

That was a thoughtful statement Christcorp I’ll play.

First of all by your logic McCain should be a weak candidate because most of his wins in Feb. 5 and before were in blue states. Huckabee carried most of the South and Romney carried the Midwest.

I am not sure what you’ve been reading, but if you think McCain will be competitive against Obama in New York, California, OR New Jersey in November there’s a mule I’d like to sell you. Therefore her winning the primaries in those states are irrelevant. Primary victories in those states are about as relevant as Wyoming and Alabama when it comes to strength in the general elections.

McCain is a conservative Republican and you can bet Obama will make that very clear about old Grandpa Munster by the time November rolls around. The only people who think McCain is a left-liberal Republican are Tancredo-Santorum uber conservatives. He’s as he likes to say himself “100 percent pro-life” , “now” is in favor of Bush tax cuts, NAFTA in its present form, the Iraq War, favors new wars in Iran. Can you name 1 position that he has that is liberal.
The kind of things people attack McCain for as being “liberal” are foolish. He’s supposedly liberal because he supported Campaign Finance Reform and Immigration Reform. That’s not enough to make yourself liberal since both issues had bipartisan support and was only opposed by fringe elements in the Republican Party.

Most polls say Jews were very anti-war from the beginning. AIPAC=/ majority of Jews. And I don't recall Obama saying Israel should be an enemy. Regardless Jews are about 2 percent of the nation and most of them are in Cali. and NY, which are not competitive. Therefore they aren't relevant.&lt;/p&gt;

And we don’t have to extrapolate based on primary results who is more electable. THE NUMBERS ARE THERE. SUSA did a 50 state head to head matchup state by state. Obama did better. Most the generic head to head matchups showed Obama winning. Here’s a little secret Clinton doesn’t want anyone to know. The kind of people who support her are hard-core Dems who would never vote for McInsane. You think those hard-core feminists who support Hillary will vote for someone who don’t give them control over their reproductive health. Do you think labor voters will EVER vote for a Republican, especially one who wears NAFTA on his sleeve. Or do you think older voters who like Social Security are going to vote for a Republican who wants to cut Social Security?

subsidycorp · March 20, 2008, 3:49am

Here’s the data for you CC, if you were interested.

[SurveyUSA</a> Blog Archive Electoral Math as of 03/06/08: Obama 280, McCain 258](<a href=“SurveyUSA | America’s Neighborhood Pollster™”>SurveyUSA | America’s Neighborhood Pollster™)

[SurveyUSA</a> Blog Archive Electoral Math as of 03/06/08: Clinton 276, McCain 262](<a href=“SurveyUSA | America’s Neighborhood Pollster™”>SurveyUSA | America’s Neighborhood Pollster™)

[Graphical</a> representations of two-way-contest opinion polling data from the United States presidential election, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Graphical representations of two-way-contest opinion polling data from the 2008 United States presidential election - Wikipedia”>Graphical representations of two-way-contest opinion polling data from the 2008 United States presidential election - Wikipedia)

teriwtt · March 20, 2008, 6:50am

Touche. I was actually surprised to discover how much the Irish are inspired by Obama. The gist I got from most people I spoke to was, “Do you really want another Clinton in the White House?” This, from a land where Hillary claims to have been so involved in the peace process between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

And while many posters may not care about what other nations think (even small ones such as Ireland/Northern Ireland), I think given the history of conflict there, I can appreciate their insight (now that I’ve learned a little more detail about it and spoken with the people). And they think Obama has a better chance of negotiating and bringing parties together than McCain or Clinton.

zoosermom · March 20, 2008, 9:17am

" don’t recall it being on the mainstream media saying if they would start losing votes because of the truly evil and hypocritical people they were courting."

As I said, you weren’t paying attention because it happened.

vicariousparent · March 20, 2008, 9:48am

bz: >>>>Given that our nation/government has already tried in so many ways to bring satisfaction & resolution to the issue (Social Programs, War on Poverty, Great Society Initiatives, Integration, AA, etc.) and apparently we are not much closer to resolution than some years ago, perhaps the onus is now on the other side of the issue.>>>>

<ul>
<li>But we ARE much closer to resolution than some years ago. Even a few years ago we could not have seen a black politician like Barack who would appeal to all Americans. </li>
</ul>

We have come a long way, we are just not there yet. Race IS still an issue, just a LOT less of an issue than it was a few years ago.

I agree that there needs to be a spirit of forgiveness in the black community. I believe the new generation is less bitter than the preceding generation. Problem is, there is still quite a lot of poverty and related problems like drugs and crime that disproportionately afflict the black community. Neighborhoods and educational opportunitites are still segregated, primarily along economic lines but also along racial lines. Not because of an inherently racist society but because of historic disadvantages that the blacks suffered from. It takes a few generations, IMO.

zoosermom · March 20, 2008, 9:51am

Vicariousparent, I agree completely with what you wrote. My concern is how many generations will it take for the black community to recover and heal from the damage inflicted in the name of good intentions? I truly believe that the way to financial security is through intact families. That’s what we need to prioritize.

Christcorp · March 20, 2008, 9:58am

subsidy; remember how important states like Florida has been in elections. Lot of elderly, jewish, and democrats. Unlike the Bush election, it’s quite viable for Florida to go strongly to McCain.

In other words, I have seen enough reports, polls, interviews, etc… that show McCain could get quite a good percentage of democratic voters. Yes, california and new york are almost always Democratic. I don’t see that changing. But I do see some that could shift. More so that republican states going democratic.

What will determine it is if Obama and Clinton stay at each other’s throats or if they will calm down and appear to be one team. Until the democratic primaries are over, they have to make sure they don’t appear to be trying to destroy each other. McCain stays non confrontational. I know there’s a lot of democrats; especially the Obama team that thinks that there’s no way in the world that America will vote in another republican to follow Bush’s last 8 years. If you believe this, and campaign as such, you might wake up to one heck of a shock.

vicariousparent · March 20, 2008, 10:00am

zm: I am not so sure those intentions were all “good”. It is easier to throw money at people in need than to actually help them. I am encouraged by Obama’s words when he talks about parents doing their part in reading to their kids and switching off the TV, and not feeding them last night’s fried chicken for breakfast. About fathers taking responsibility. I sense that he is speaking primarily to the black community though of course this happens in all communities, including some not so poor communities.

Few white politicians could dare to speak that way to predominantly black audiences. Few black politicians care to speak that way either.

bulletandpima · March 20, 2008, 10:32am

I live in rural NC. What people don’t get, is this not a black/white/hispanic issue. It is about the socio-economic role. I have seen children show up at school with very little sleep, why because Mom had to work nights and they baby sat their siblings(economic). I have seen children whose parents are proud that they passed 4th grade and use this child as a housekeeper…why…because the parent s graduated from 3rd grade (hispanic) so the child to them is an adult (socio). I have seen parents who live on welfare and are the total opposite and sit on their kids, because they don’t want them to live this life and know, that the only way out is an education. None of these cases were black, all are white or hispanic.

I wish politicians would address this issue, and especially affirmative action.

I am not opposed to affirmative action, I am opposed to how it is currently written. Take UMich, a very elite state university, whose admission policy was brought to the Supreme Court and on 60 minutes. Race was given extra points for admission.

Do I believe if you are 1st gen. you should get additional points, yes. Do I believe that if you are an affluent minority you should get these points, NO.
Again it should be a socio-economical issue.

I personally know 3 people who are 3rd generation college educated, that checked the box minority. One was 1/16 Cherokee, but could trace their roots, which is a qualifier. Another is a child, of a bi-racial mrriage. When the children were born, and she had to check their race for elem. school papers, she checked others, and stated “I would be very upset if my kids checked African American, because I am not”, spoke to her this yr, and her child checked mark that box. I asked are you upset? No, I told her to do so, because we can get more money, and she can get into better schools. (BTW the parents both hold Masters nad make over 150K per yr). I know a 3rd who checked minority (1 parent is a minority, with a Masters, but they were born and raised in the states, grandparent is college educated, family income is over 150K), yet it was done for the same reason.

Affirmative action will help all of these kids, but what about the ones that are white, and is from rural America, where their folk are on welfare. None of these children will get the extra points in their college apps. Remember the app. does not ask financial background, just race is given pts.

In a decade, Obama’s girls will be applying for college, they will be helped by affirmative action, children that I am sure go to private schools with the best education, children of ivy league educated parents, will be assisted, compared to the poor rural kids.

We need this issue to be brought up. We do need to address it. Obama started it when he said white people are upset about these issues. He opened Pandora’s box, now he needs to address it. I would switch to his side in a heartbeat, if he addressed how to correct the problem, but right now he is not even touching it

bz2010 · March 20, 2008, 10:59am

Yes, that is my opinion too. The reason I said we apparently aren’t much closer to resolution is because we still have unhappiness & discontent among minorities. We do still have advocacy groups calling for reparations, continuance of AA, etc. I was making the assertion from the recipients’ end, not the government’s / society in general. I was also going to use the example of Obama’s presidential campaign as an illustration of how far we’ve come. We’re on the same page.

VP - If McCain or any other white candidate speaks to parents about reading to their children, fixing breakfast every day, why would it seem racist - even if it were a predominately black audience? Aren’t those things that need to be said to everyone? Why are so many actions or comments perceived to be racist when they are not? This is where forgiveness, acceptance, tolerance must come in to play. Minorities cannot continue to assume that everything is targeted to them just because of their race. Another example involves crimes & arrests. Some minorities feel that they are being disporportionately targeted & arrested by police - or is it that they commit a majority of the crimes? Maybe it’a a “chicken or the egg” situation.

For argument’s sake, let’s assume that the “orange” society has gone out of their way to demonstrate to the “purple” society that “We accept you” (integration, affirmative action, quotas, social programs targeted to the largely purple segments of society, special funding for minority groups, even accepting double standards which favor purples, i.e. “purple” t.v. stations, “purple” chambers of commerce, “purple” Miss America, NAAPP, United Purple College Fund, etc. - lots of things that the “orange” segment of society could never have). At some point the purples have to “put away childish things” and stand on their own two feet - I’m not hearing minority leaders espouse this type of thinking - it continues to be “We’re owed more and more”, “We’re being victimized” (yes, probably by all those social programs which keep people beholden to the government). It’s rather a vicious cycle - and the only way purples/blacks can break free is to take responsibility for themselves. (You can’t be “special” and “the same” simultaneously!). Government can never do for you as well as you can do for yourself. Now, what more can the orange/white society DO to help minorities understand that concept, put it into action & succeed?

As I’ve said before, I think the ball is in the other court now - and maybe Obama’s campaign - even if he’s not elected - can help America face some of these issues. If so, it’s a good thing.

zoosermom · March 20, 2008, 11:17am

"The reason I said we apparently aren’t much closer to resolution is because we still have unhappiness & discontent among minorities. "

We have unhappiness and discontent because many are living horrible and hopeless lives. The welfare state has failed these people and it’s time for change. Many on the right were disappointed in Senator Obama’s speech for exactly the reasons set out in the prior post. He could have stood up and said the hard things that needed to be said in order to make life better for the black community, but of course, he would hurt his electability if he did that. In this regard alone, Rudy would have been a good president. Although their “leaders” won’t admit it, Rudy changed things for the better for the members of the minority community who wanted to move forward.

bulletandpima · March 20, 2008, 11:22am

quote]**As I’ve said before, I think the ball is in the other court now - and maybe Obama’s campaign - even if he’s not elected - can help America face some of these issues. If so, it’s a good thing

[/quote]
[**

Could not agree more !

Yet, unfortunately, I believe, this will not happen. I think we as Americans, should make this the year we finally say there is an elephant (no ref to political parties) in the room.

Obama could actually unite the country, and be the leader to say we need to see every angle and side, similiar to Bill Cosby coming out and speaking from his own beliefs.

I said it before and will say it again, if Obama would address these issues with solutions, I would throw my vote to him. Instead, all I am getting from him, is it exists, but no solutions.

I am not a dog, that comes because you called me, I need answers, and even to this day I have yet to get clear concise answers.

Do not start writing what he has stated he will do. I know what he has stated that he will do…I am looking for HOW he will do it. HOW will he address withdrawing troops if MOC’s vote against his plan? HOW will he pay for his healthcare, if the GAO is correct and my federal withholdings will go up 44%, and why I will be forced to join, when I have health insurance (I know, I know, lucky me, and I am a heartless b*tch, for not wanting to help…sorry, but it is also about the min. wage worker at Wal-Mart, living paycheck to paycheck that this would hurt…think about 15% withheld from min. wage earners, tallies over 1K a year…Wal-Mart has an insurance plan, 1K makes a big difference to them too) HOW is he going to implement an educational plan. HOW will he fix are illegal immigration problem?

I know we have problems, I am sick and tired of hearing Bush put us there. Bush was elected, so were the sen. and cong. If you say that he can only do so much, because of CAPITOL HILL, isn’t that the same for Bush? Bush may have a horrible favorable rating, but the last tim I checked Congress was at least 10 pts. lower

mkm56 · March 20, 2008, 12:50pm

Well stated bz and b&p.

fordiscussion · March 20, 2008, 1:04pm

Obama has actually said that his children should NOT be beneficiaries of affirmative action. I can’t find a link right now, but I’m sure you could if you goggle it.

vicariousparent · March 20, 2008, 1:13pm

^^^ If true, that is a very encouraging statement from Obama.

Of course, his children would still enjoy the legacy advantage at Princeton, Columbia and Harvard. And the Obama name should help those girls get noticed at other adcoms too…

bulletandpima · March 20, 2008, 1:27pm

Hate to say it, be he can say it over and over again. Unless his children check other and not african american, they automatically qualify. He can easily say we didn’t use that route, but the colleges do. It is a part of the Collegeboards and your app. That is a false promise. Facts are facts, they have the opporunity, whereas, the poor rural American who has lived on welfare, does not. AA is not about socio-economic, it is about race, we need to help every child, it should be based upon economics. AA should give points to 1st gen. regardless of race or background. Thus, he can state that until the cows come home, if they check African American when they sit down for their PSAT/SAT/ACT they get the points. I.E., my friends who said they would never do that, but in the end of the day they did. I have none these people for at least 14 yrs.

Do not read into this as a racial issue, it is not, I feel that affirmative action, should help those who have no other way. 1st generation, low income. American Indian who lives below poverty. It should not be about your skin color, it should be about the person who is coming from the area that they proved their worth.

bz2010 · March 20, 2008, 1:32pm

Yeah fd, the Obamas can afford to pay for their kids’ education - no matter where they choose to go. And given thier high profile, the girls will probably be accepted wherever they apply. Isn’t that something like an eskimo saying, “We decline the free ice”. (Pardon the eskimo reference if you think it’s not PC!).

Had a good frind accepted to a very prestigious college, but given that they were merely upper middle class, and no awards were given for “merit”, they were going to have to shell out over $50k per year. Who can afford that? Only the VERY wealthy or the VERY poor (who receive more FA). Consequently, she had to attend her 2nd choice with a different program than what she really wanted (still paying big bucks out of pocket) - AND that prestigious college now has only 2 classes of students, both on the extreme ends of the cultural spectrum.

Doesn’t make much sense, does it?

Now, show me where there is one “benefit” to being born white & middle class these days.

(Yeah sure, we don’t have to live in “poverty”, but what is keeping those born into poverty to remain there nowadays? With hard work, determination & all the gov’t-sponsored freebies, it shouldn’t take more than a generation or two to bust out).

toneranger · March 20, 2008, 1:43pm

“Now, show me where there is one “benefit” to being born white & middle class these days”
We live in a largely white upper middle class area. The public schools are terrific.
SAT scores are through the roof and our HS has over 30 NM semi-finalists each year. Pretty nice I’d say. I’d take that over inner city schools any day,
Regarding the cost of college, I see the top schools easing up. Harvard, Penn, Yale…the list grows. Now families who make up to 200k are getting significant aid. Not bad…

anon43256521 · March 20, 2008, 1:45pm

That’s what I’ve been saying! Those crazy poor people, what with their “public education in many inner-city schools is a joke” and “Low expectations of success fueling a self-perpetuating culture of violence and hopelessness” and “misguided minimum-wage policies that increase unemployment among skilled laborers” and “let’s put everybody below the poverty line in poorly-run housing projects and then wonder why gangs take it over in seconds”!

Somebody should just be like, “Yo! Stop being poor!”

bulletandpima · March 20, 2008, 1:54pm

HUH?

You are surely joking!

Obama is doing a great job w/his speech

CONNECT WITH US