Hello Parents Community. My daughter is planning to major in East Asian Studies and attain fluency in Chinese and Japanese. She is accepted (Class 2019) to all three schools listed in the title. She also plans to participate in a Study Abroad opportunity as part of her academics. Any knowledge, advice or comments regarding these schools for their Asian Studies programs, or just general comments of interest between the three, is greatly appreciated. We have attended Admitted Student Open Houses for all three in the last week or so. She is so stressed about making her choice that she is frozen with indecision. Also, she never had the eureka moment of “This is it!” at any of the colleges she applied to even though she was accepted to and toured 9 altogether. She comes from a family of hesitant decision makers, so I’m not surprised on that front. But time is running out. Thanks in advance for any comments added to this thread.
Oberlin’s East Asian studies department is well-respected and known within academia. If it was me and the financial offers were equal Oberlin would be my top choice and that’s even accounting for the act I am an alum.
However, this also depends on what area of East Asian studies your D wants to emphasize. Mine was history and politics whereas other classmates emphasized literature, arts, music, etc. What’s your D’s?
What were the financial aid/scholarship package offers from each school?
Also, what type of campus culture would appeal to your D’s personality?
Bucknell, Dickinson and Oberlin have very different campus cultures.
I just searched for East Asian Studies on CC
and here is an example thread:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/589784-best-colleges-for-political-science-east-asian-studies-major.html
It mentions Oberlin but none of the others.
Oberlin would seem like the pick of the group, to me, on the grounds of general excellence.
One thing she could do, though, is compare the course catalogs and faculty listings. How many and what kind of courses does each school offer in her area(s) of interest? How often are they offered? How many faculty members does the department have–including those who serve in more than one–and what are their backgrounds like? How many students are majors in the department each year?
As an example, if I were comparing French programs and found that school A had French 1 through 4, while school B had those classes plus an array of classes in specific areas of French literature–NOT survey courses–and that at least the upper level lit courses were taught IN French, it would be clear that the latter was a stronger department.
I would find out how the Chinese language classes in particular handle heritage speakers when deciding whether or not a school would be a good fit.
Offhand, though, it seems to me that Oberlin would be the desirable choice, for all the reasons given above.
Cobrat, thanks so much for your reply and your questions.
EAS emphasis: Not sure which emphasis she would apply to her East Asian studies just yet. No doubt that will evolve as she begins her exposure to the areas you mention. Currently, she “thinks” she is leaning toward translator/interpreter and, perhaps adding on International Studies/Relations.
Financial award: Nearly insignificant Fed Direct Loan package but not a factor anyway. Oberlin awarded her the John F. Oberlin Merit Scholarship and Dickinson awarded the Benjamin Rush Merit Scholarship. Both of these scholarships are equal monetarily. Nothing from Bucknell. So one tick against Bucknell if financial aid was the sole deciding factor.
We are thrilled with the merit scholarship awards! However, we recognize it’s the quality of the education, quality of life experience and the ultimate usefulness of the degree at the end that is of utmost importance.
D’s personality fit: In my own opinion, she is decidedly not a huge sports fan, and probably won’t join Greek life, except perhaps if it was honors or language-interest based. In light of that, probably both Oberlin and Dickinson are a better fit. She strongly supports free choice and free lifestyle, but prefers an all-female hall herself, at least to start with.
Dickinson is a two hour drive from us, Bucknell is three, and Oberlin is six. She’s an only child and somewhat insecure with jumping into independence, though she mostly tries to hide it Therefore, distance is ‘possibly’ a factor, though not a determiner. It depends on how well she adjusts to a new phase in life. We just have no idea which college has the warmest support system, specifically students, faculty and administration. She is unlikely to visit a emotional wellness center even if she is having a hard time away from home. It’s difficult to rate that kind of vibe with our only data based on single day visits.
If I may, can you tell me if your “Life After Oberlin”, whether further academia and/or career(s), was directly related to the major(s) and minor(s) you chose? Or did simply being an Oberlin graduate have any impact with your employer(s)?
How was the faculty and the department itself? How did becoming an Obie effect you?
Thank you kindly.
My D was accepted at Bucknell but attended a similar Patroit League school. Honestly I can’t imagine that someone who would be comfortable at Bucknell would be at Oberlin. I know kids who went to all 3 schools. All did study abroad. I would say that Oberlin is a school that is geared for preparing students for graduate school and Bucknell has more of a professional (getting a job after undergrad) vibe. I hope that makes sense.
All the kids I knew at these schools loved them but I can’t imagine them at the others school.
The FA was better at other schools my D was accepted to and that was our deciding factor. Her boyfriends sister went to Bucknell and my D thought that other than parties there wasn’t much to do and she was not thrilled with Lewisburg. Oberlin is closer to a larger population if stores and that sort of thing is important to her. I am not that familiar with either Oberlin or Dickinson to know how big the town was or what is around there.
Wow! Thank you bopper, frazzle2thecore and Consolation!
I didn’t expect I’d get any answers on my post since it was such a specific question.
Yes, Oberlin’s East Asian Studies (EAS) seems to pop up most often in my unending searches too. But I also wonder if Dickinson’s program is up and coming. They do seem to be investing more and more into the program.
But getting back to Oberlin, we found about about their EAS program during an Open House held at Bucknell last April. A professor in their EAS department offered the generous suggestion that we look into Oberlin though he didn’t want to scare us off from applying to Bucknell. High praise for Oberlin indeed.
DD is not a heritage speaker of either language, but does have a flare and a passion for learning foreign languages in general, and a keen interest in the languages and cultures of China and Japan.
Though we have scoured exhaustively through all the published information, I need to step away from the paper data at this point. I am in need of human knowledge or experience of, not only the EAS department, but the overall college atmosphere and potential for, to put it bluntly, return on investment.
Thank you all for your wonderful comments and suggestions. If you come up with anymore, sock it to me.
Wonderful choices to have! I don’t have any experience with Bucknell, but have visited Oberlin with both of my kids, who have between them done overnight, class visits, prof and coach meetings, and attended a sporting event. We have just visited Dickinson with younger son, who did standard visit stuff plus met with prof and coach.
For what it is worth, my kids’ respective experiences of Oberlin suggest that is is a very distinct place, with very artistic, activist minded kids. The older one, who did an overnight and class visit, reported that he and his hosts worked on their respective papers that night, not a party in sight. He loved the animated class discussion, and found the prof welcoming and engaged. Although he decided that a big research university was his preferred environment, he said Oberlin was his favorite LAC. The younger one has visited Oberlin and just didn’t respond to the atmosphere on campus; he wanted more school spirit and energy. For him, he preferred Dickinson. Two different kids, two different preferences.
Does Oberlin offer single sex living options? I cannot recall. I do remember hearing at Dickinson that at least some of the freshman (maybe all?) living spaces are single sex by section, not that the whole building is single sex, but a hallway or side of a building is single sex. I believe that was only the case for freshman, not upper class, housing. Although parents always seem to ask about bathrooms etc. on these tours, most of the kids seem to find co-ed hallways a non-issue once the ground rules are established. I’m not sure the availability of single sex housing for freshman year would be the basis on which to make a decision, since it is the kind of thing that seems like big deal beforehand, but can fade with actual on-campus experience.
6 hours away for Oberlin is not unmanageable – you can get there quickly if you need to. I understand that a little closer seems manageable, but perhaps letting her know that there are specific weekends you will visit in the fall could give her the comfort to know 6 hours is not an obstacle? For my kids, at least, sometimes knowing that the visit etc. is an option, can be a comfort. They may find that when the time comes, they no longer need it or want it, but knowing it is there on the calendar before hand can be a comfort.
Good luck to your daughter, again, wonderful choices.
The East Asian Studies faculty, especially the language faculty are great and foster a tight close knit community among the students. One illustration of this was how Profs, especially language instructors made it a point to invite us students to their homes for dinner or sometimes just to hang out. I am still in touch with some of them even 15+ years later.
That’s not to say they’ll be pushovers regarding grading…especially if one happens to be a heritage speaker like yours truly. Then again, Profs at Oberlin in general seemed to be generous with providing extensions on assignments if needed…sometimes overly so.
For starters, I was able to graduate practically debt free thanks to the near-full ride FA/scholarship package combined with working part-time and summers as a freelance academic tutor and computer tech. I’ve become more appreciative of this factor after hearing countless horror stories from colleagues, a few HS classmates, and friends about how educational debt from undergrad loans has overshadowed their post-college lives.
With employers, this varied though it was mostly a positive as most employers who know of Oberlin and LACs like it are aware they’re academically respectable colleges.
The exceptions to the positive are a few isolated cases of some employers(banking/financial services)* who held negative stereotypes of Oberlin and its graduates because of its reputation for radical lefty political activism. However, that was much more of an issue for graduates in my era(graduated in late '90s) and earlier as I’ve heard from more recent graduates that the campus has mellowed out and gone more mainstream compared to when I or older alums attended.
Funny enough my work has very little direct relation to my major and minors as I ended up working in IT/computer technology. However, it did help a lot with a few graduate classes I took at an elite university as the background provided by the upper-level undergrad courses was such I was able to convince the dean to allow me to register for an advanced graduate course for PhD students starting their dissertations in a field I had no official undergrad experience in. Ended up enjoying that course and doing well in it though the weekly reading workload was such even some grad students dropped the course within the first week of the semester. It was here that I found how much respect Oberlin commanded within academia, especially in the East Asian Studies field.
I also found that among older generations of academics within China, Oberlin is highly respected because of its long association with China and the fact there’s at least one notable Chinese personage who is an Oberlin graduate(H.H. Kung Oberlin Class of 1906).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._H._Kung
More importantly, it facilitated expanded opportunities to socialize and network with creative people in the arts and music world and learning more about political activism and organization as an observer. It’s one reason why some of my free time is taken in hanging out and assisting friends playing out in various indie bands in the NYC area.
- Found it amusing not too many years after that interview, the banking/financial services firm in question ceased to exist.
Oberlin (for example) does have Chinese and Japanese language courses up to the tenth semester level. Yes, that presumes that some students enter the sequence in a course more advanced than the first semester (beginner) level course, due to previous learning in high school or heritage knowledge. (However, the odd levels appear to be only offered in the fall, while the even levels appear to be only offered in the spring, so a student would need to come in ready for the third level course if s/he wants to get to the ninth and tenth level courses before graduating.)
http://catalog.oberlin.edu/content.php?filter[27]=CHIN&filter[29]=&filter[course_type]=-1&filter[keyword]=&filter[32]=1&filter[cpage]=1&cur_cat_oid=35&expand=&navoid=887&search_database=Filter#acalog_template_course_filter
http://catalog.oberlin.edu/content.php?filter[27]=JAPN&filter[29]=&filter[course_type]=-1&filter[keyword]=&filter[32]=1&filter[cpage]=1&cur_cat_oid=35&expand=&navoid=887&search_database=Filter#acalog_template_course_filter
You may want to check the catalogs and schedules for all colleges of interest in this respect.
I know a current student at bucknell who us spending her junior year in japan. I’m sure bucknell (and the others) could put you in touch with a current student or recent grad or their parents, for you to ask additional questions of. I get names of students to talk to because I am an alum. Call admissions!
In practice, if a student expresses interest and demonstrates sufficient seriousness when discussing with Prof in a semester it’s not available, most Profs IME will offer the course on a private reading basis.
Oberlin has a long history in China; I believe there was some connection between Oberlin and Chinese missionaries, in the early 20th century, so it goes way back. It even has a Chinese transliteration name, whereas Bucknell and Dickinson are unknown to most Chinese. Honestly, I don’t know anything about Bucknell of Dickinson’s East Asian studies departments, so I can’t really weigh in on them, but Oberlin’s is well known and many graduates go on to study for PhDs. Oberlin also has a much larger East Asian population than either Bucknell or Dickinson, if that matters. Overall, I’d go with the school with the better academic reputation and that is clearly Oberlin.
I went to Bucknell many years ago and know its East Asian program was very well respected then. That would be be more than 35 years ago.
Both Bucknell and Oberlin are ranked in the top 100 most selective colleges in the country ( USNews), out of thousands. Bucknell is a bit above Oberlin. But both schools are great.
Personally, I would choose one of these two.
How do you conclude that considering according to the very same USNews, Oberlin is currently ranked #23 whereas Bucknell is ranked #32?
I am so grateful to you all for your information, thoughts and advice! You are just what an overwhelmed mother needs in this last minute frantic process!
Considering everything you all have offered, I will once again go back to paper data. Meaning I’m drafting a spread sheet to compare the three contenders side-by-side, including all the things you contributed plus a couple more items of interest thrown in.
My plan is to set DD down in front of the spreadsheet tomorrow and then she can see the options/opportunities at a glance. We’ve poured through so much material already that it’s become of blur of who has what.
This is something I should have done much earlier, But in the beginning we never imagined she would be accepted by so many selective, wonderful schools. We figured the odds were against her for most and that the choice would end up being very simple. But we said, “why not?” It’s more work with the essays of course, but you never know".
She applied to 12 (poor thing) though three were safety schools anyway. In the end she was accepted to nine! She’s declining the safeties, U. Richmond, Gettysburg, and probably UMD-College Park since it’s just too big. She was wait-listed at William & Mary and denied at UVA. Since we’re from Northern Virginia, the competition is beyond believable for these two in-state schools. In fact, we were surprised she was wait-listed to W&M at all since so many of our local students were denied. They were clearly more highly qualified on paper (Varsity sports, volunteerism, leadership positions, number of ECs, etc.). So this was an unexpected compliment to get that far.
Your comments have urged me to tackle this spreadsheet for the remaining three right now… Thank you!
I will report back on her final choice…which I hope is by the end of this week! Fingers crossed! 
Cobrat, I’m still laughing about your asterisked comment!
Bucknell is very big on parties and Greek life, and as such sounds like a poor fit.
Dickinson has a great East Asian Studies program and study abroad, but I believe that Oberlin’s is a cut above. However, it’s still one of the most radical/left-leaning colleges in the country, even if it’s mellowed out. It’s completely the opposite of Bucknell in social and political terms. Dickinson is more moderate.
Another vote for Oberlin. Excellent East Asian Studies, especially China. With wonderful work abroad and exchange programs through the Oberlin Shansi Foundation.
I hear great things about Oberlin’s East Asia studies program, especially the popular seminar that focuses on the millions.of people killed after WWII. It’s called “Mao: The Good Old Days.”